+4x8 question

What do you all (forum peeps) mean when you say that your ____(insert awesomo build) can solo +4x8? It seems like a lot of people just throw that out without qualifying the statement at all. For example, when you say that your SS/FA/Soul brute solos +4x8, which mobs do you mean? Because soloing AE or Council baddies is VERY different than soloing DE, Longbow, PPD, Rularuu, Arachnos, Carnies, or Vanguard in my experience. When you assert your toon can solo +4x8, do you mean relatively quickly or slowly? Do you assume a minimum speed before you assert +4x8 status or is finishing a spawn in 30min the same as 30sec? Do you assume temp or incarnate powers were used?

I guess what I'm asking is what everyone personally means when they state that their tri-form WS, SS/Fire brute, etc. can solo +4x8 spawns. The reason I'm asking is to better understand the high-end capabilities of different ATs, powersets, and builds. I continually find myself surprised when I hear of someone soloing +4x8 spawns or GMs on an unexpectedly strong build only to find out that the Lore pets largely killed the GM or that the +4x8 spawn was (relatively) wimpy warriors, council, or something like that.

Of course, this post is not meant to condescend to anyone's accomplishments. I simply want to understand others' perceptions better.

Well my human form Warshade can solo 54x8 Council/Rikti/etc with complete ease and without inspirations (Clarion is used, granted, and I also have t4 Reactive) and 54x8 Malta/Arachnos with inspirations.

The latter is obviously more difficult but still doable. I usually use Judgement just because it speeds things up a bit, but that's not to say it's strictly necessary. I very rarely (if ever) use my lore pets. I never go to the market and buy medium/large/ultimate inspirations for any given task.

Up against more difficult groups I will do some pre-planning with the inspirations already in my tray and then buy the small ones that will be most beneficial for said task at a normal vendor.

For farming I just use reds.

Personally, when I say I'm soloing +4/x8 without any additional information, I imply:
- bosses on, AVs off (I sometimes keep AVs on, but that's not necessarily always true)
- any, every faction
- insps allowed (stuff that drops)
- incarnate powers allowed
- defeats/slowness allowed, within acceptable limits. Death shouldn't happen outside of a few missions/enemies that play to my achilles' heel on that particular character, and when it does, no more than 2 or 3 times in a single mission. Likewise, if I consistently take about two minutes or even more to kill a single spawn, I'll lower the reputation.

Which is basically normal playing for me, hence the lack of qualifiers. I do understand, and share, your perplexity concerning this sort of statement though. Reading the boards you'd sometimes believe people are steamrolling, solo, +4/x8 PPD on characters with 45% S/L def, no DDR, no hard controls and no insps.

On my DB/WP which is the only one outside of AE is the only character Ive gotten to +4/8 level, generally means every enemy group.

This does include the use of inspirations, though not generally temp powers, unless I happen to have like Iron Blade or Rune Blast available, so I use it for fun.

I keep bosses on, and AVs on.

For AVs, I always try to go into it with no inspiration use.

Some enemies will be easier than others. And it tends to require keeping an eye on the life bar alot more and possible running awa...I mean...tactical retreats (like trying to defeat Cims at 4/8 solo)

Generally, I like to run at about 2/8, which still has risks, but I can just let loose a lot more.

I don't really ever say that I can solo +4x8 cause I think it's a pretty silly way to back up an argument.

But if I were to say it, it would definitely mean not dieing while doing it and specifying what enemy groups you were fighting and what kind of insps you used (if any) to make it possible.

I would also say your killing speed would be important as well, as saying you can solo on +4x8 is basically saying you consider X enemy group farmable with Y build, if you can't kill them consistantly fast there isn't much point to it.

If kill speed wasn't a factor you could make a Stone/SS tank, IO it out for pure survivability and only take Jab, sure you could probably solo many enemy groups at 4/8 and come out on top, but you're not going to be killing fast in any sense of the word.

Pretty much what Nihilii said.

For me, it means I can fight mobs of most any faction on these settings, bosses enabled, AVs probably (but not always) disabled, while suffering defeat only now and then, on average, with 2-3 deaths in a single mission meaning I might have my settings too high. 90-120 seconds is probably longer than I want to spend fighting a spawn with any regularity, but I might accept it if the foe is particularly resistant to my damage types, depending on whether that ends up being actually challenging or just tedious.

I tend not to use inspirations when solo, by my own choice. I like knowing what my limits are without the right ones on hand. However, unless I flub by riding the edge too close, I usually resort to them when I see I'm in over my head without them.

Most of my characters can solo most mob factions at +4/x8, but can't solo one or two. The usual culprits they can't solo at those settings are Arachnos and maybe the IDF, usually because those two inflict auto-hit defense debuffs. Honorable mention sometimes go to Carnies if my character lacks Psi protection. (Other spawns have hard-hitting Psi bosses, but none save Carnies have only hard-hitting Psi bosses, with x8 earning you at least two in every spawn.) I can usually solo these at +4/x6, which usually gets you only one boss per spawn.

When I say I solo at +4/x8, I do not mean that I can farm whatever I come across. Soloing != farming, though most farming is done solo. You don't farm much of anything with Broadsword/Invul or Dark Blast/Dark Miasma, but you might be able to solo just fine.

Edit: I do consider 54/x8 a better designation, because of the ambiguity introduced by level shifts. Level 54 mobs are +3 combat levels to my level 50s, because they all have the Alpha Slot level shift.

Lots of characters at their peak level of performance can manage solo +4x8 missions with most mob types, but they aren't going to be steamrolling by any means. If you define "manage" as "can complete the mission without too many deaths using all available methods of mitigation" then probably most Scrappers, Tankers and Brutes can handle it as can some Blasters and many Controllers. I wouldn't be at all surprised if every AT in the game has at least some build combinations that are capable of that trick.

However one thing none of them will be doing is running QUICKLY. It simply takes longer to kill +4 mobs than it does to kill +2 or even level. No build in the game will be able to kill +4 mobs as quickly as it can kill +2 mobs. Yes, a few corner cases can move efficiently enough to make the time/reward ratio favorable but those are very few and far between and they'll still take a good bit longer to complete the mission.

I'd actually like to see a build that can solo a majority of opponents at +4/x8 without INCARNATES. Granted that seems like a task, especially on an SO build. I went IO's before I attempted a feat but I wonder if its possible.

That's an interesting question posed by the OP. I never really thought about what mobs I fight when soloing +4/8, as far as I'm concerned they all drop the same purples and give about the same XP to whichever lowbie of mines is tagging along.

+4x8 Carnies is pretty tough. I would like to see somebody beating them. I think eventually you are just going to lose on endurance and die slowly. What's worse is if a Mistress casts that "weakness" debuff on you. Good bye your tohit and endurance!

+4x8 Arachnos is also hard depending on what type of bosses show up. A Mu boss is going to be a pain in behind because he drains a lot of endurance. The Queen boss does a lot of psionic damage if you have little protection against it.


I think the easiest to do +4x8 is CoT and Councils.

Pretty much in agreement with the majority of the thread, pretty much any mob and set to +4/x8 but with level shift so really these days it would be as Uber Guy has said, level 54/x8 vs an Alpha level shifted character. Essentially it means the character in question doesn't really care what mission or foe they jump into, they expect to handle it in a timely fashion with minimal death against a maxed out spawn size. And pretty much only have one character that truly fits the description, my Claws/SR. And yes Carnies are a delight, specially when I want a challenge ... (whereas DE, particularly the +64% to hit ones) and Rularuu are more annoying then necessarily challenging for me).

I've found my Plant/Psi Permadom can handle most mob types at +4/8 as long as domination is up. Doesn't really matter, since I can confuse all bosses with a single application of Seeds. I will say that it's like playing tennis on a razor. Look the wrong way and you are bleeding out. An outlier really though, most of my other IOd guys will struggle though +4/8 with heavy inspiration chugging.

What's the hardest +4x8 in your opinion?

I have to say it's probably Rularuu? I know the Big Eyeballs eat through defense like it's nothing so any build that focuses on defense as major survival will be nothing against them.