Spring Attack over K.O. Blow?!

I've been playing around in mids, and I'm very seriously considering taking spring attack over K.O. Blow, here are my considerations:

Spring Attack will do more DPS, as long as I can hit 7 targets every 32 seconds or so. This is rarely a problem.

It simplifies my attack chain. Not a big issue, but it helps

Because of a Fury of the Gladiator, and Force Feedback +Recharge proc in Foot stomp, I only have room for 4 other Enh. If I go with Spring Attack I can 5 Slot Armageddon for that sweet +10% recharge. I'm all about the foot stomp!

If I go with K.O. Blow, obviously my single-target damage improves greatly.
I could get rid of Super Jump (I have Ninja Run). I'm hesitant to do this anyway, my tank isn't much of a ninja, and looks silly doing flips everywhere.

If I did get rid of super-jump I would likely take tactics. I find the confuse/terrorize hole in my defense quite annoying (You would think that being nigh-invulnerable would give some resistance to fear).

My only other attacks are jab, haymaker, and laser beam eyes. Obviously Jab stays. I really like my ranged attack for pulling stray enemies off allies, (-20% res proc doesn't hurt). Haymaker fills any gap in my cool-downs.

Of course, I really like K.O. Blow... Who doesn't? Thoughts? Opinions?

I'd be impressed if you got Spring Attack to do more DPS than KoB can you show me how you did this with 7 targets? Are you shield? I like the utility of the hold myself.

This is my build with Spring Attack. If you replace Spring Attack with KoB, and slot it with Crushing Impact, (everything except accuracy/damage) KoB does 50.75 DPS. In the build I have linked, Spring Attack does 6.76 DPS (x7.5=50.75). These number don't include the additional 33% chance of 107.1 fire damage to each enemy beyond the first with Spring Attack. None of my Mid's links seem to work for me, but hopefully they work for you


http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...C7F67F5B45E8EE
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Mr. Amazing Man: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(3)
Level 1: Jab -- GS-Acc/Dmg(A), GS-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(3), GS-%Dam(5), GS-Dam/Rech(5), Amaze-ToHitDeb%(7), Zinger-Dam%(48)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(7), RctvArm-EndRdx(9), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(17), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Hectmb-Dam%(19), FrcFbk-Rechg%(21)
Level 6: Resist Elements -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(21), ImpArm-ResPsi(23)
Level 8: Unyielding -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(23), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), ImpArm-ResPsi(25)
Level 10: Taunt -- Zinger-Acc/Rchg(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(27), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(27), Zinger-Dam%(29), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(29)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 16: Super Jump -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31)
Level 20: Spring Attack -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(33), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Armgdn-Dam%(34)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GA-ResDam(A), GA-End/Res(34), GA-3defTpProc(34), GA-Res/Rech/End(36)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36), SW-ResDam/Re TP(36)
Level 28: Rage -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(37), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(37), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(37), AdjTgt-Rchg(39)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 32: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 35: Dull Pain -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Numna-Heal/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(43), FotG-ResDeb%(43), FrcFbk-Rechg%(45)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(46), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Apoc-Dam%(46), Achilles-ResDeb%(48)
Level 47: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(48)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(50), P'Shift-End%(50), EndMod-I(50)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
------------
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(11), Mrcl-Heal(11), Mrcl-Rcvry+(13), RgnTis-Regen+(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(15), P'Shift-End%(15)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run

Without the datachunk uploading it seems to be troublesome but I think the DPS is down to the slotting choices you would make.

Your Invuln and that for me is enough. I couldn't part with my KoB, sometimes your vulnerable to a certain figure in a group and the way to put them out of action is to hold them and defeat them asap. Nothing is without luck and so I would shore up my survivability chances better with active mitigation.

i dont consider AoE attacks increasing dps when the individual dmg done to each enemy is still in the toilet

just because spring attack can hit more targets doesnt mean its better, and it will pale in comparison to ko blow when your fighting single tough targets such as AVs

sping attack vs KO blow is a no question to me, i would go ko blow, the single target dmg is much more useful, since i think 400-600 dmg on single target vs 40-60 dmg on a bunch of targets is no question, foot stomp alone will make up for the spring attack dmg

Crazy.

Absolutely crazy.

Simple as that.

Get rid of assault instead.

Knockout blow is actually really nice. Definitely a must have for SS. Find something else to pick out if you can.

I hear you on most of these issues. I'd really miss being able to give sappers the K.O. Blow, they're dangerous. My DPS Vs. Arch-villains would take a huge hit. I <3 K.O. Blow.

One of the biggest advantages of Spring Attack would be the set bonus' of Armageddon. I have Foot Stomp with a +Recharge proc, and a -20%Res proc. Combined with Jab and Laser Beam Eyes, I potentially stack up a -60% resistance to an enemy. This only leaves me 4 slots in foot stomp, not enough for the +10% recharge of Armageddon, unless I take spring attack, which then increases the DPS of all my other attacks, and helps me hold agro. If the +recharge proc activates (and at 10% chance in an AoE, it often does) Foot Stomp goes down to a 4.44 second recharge, and I get two chances to keep my +100% recharge ball rolling.

The added DPS of Spring Attack is also less effected by Rage crash (It's FAR more likely to be on cool-down while crashed then KoB) but, surprising to me, gains less benefit from double rage (I need to hit 7.7 targets ever 32 seconds to beat out KoB with double-rage). I spend about 1/2 of my time in double-rage (65 sec recharge, 120 sec duration, not including +recharge procs). Also, it out-performs K.O. Blow for each target over 7 every 32 seconds.

The number aforementioned had K.O. Blow with Crushing Impact:
+97.49% Damage, and +112.51% Recharge
And Spring Attack With Armageddon:
+89.92% Damage, and +126.16% Recharge

I was pretty surprised when I came across this, I thought 'Of course K.O. Blow does better DPS!' It definitely would if I didn't have my missions set to x8.

Assault out-DPS every other power in the build easy. Giving everyone else a 10% buff to damage is WAY more then I deal on a full team. Only using two slots for endurance, this power is WIN.

Just read in another thread that spring attack only does full dmg in the tiny area around where you land, and the rest is just a really really weak aoe. Looking at mid's numbers, I'm guessing the weak aoe is 22.24 damage, while the point blank part is 44.49. Meaning most targets will only be hit for 1/3 of its max dmg.

Just take the -res proc out of footstomp and put the armageddon in or something?

And take something that doesn't suck instead of spring attack?

Take knockout blow. Take a look at what the 10% recharge really gives you for Footstomp too. In my opinion, it's better to go Armageddon in it (awesome proc damage) then to do the -res debuff. Heck, slot Knockout Blow with the hold purple set. Give it the purple proc damage and it can be a utility tool for you and still gives you your precious 10% recharge. I think I'd rather have a knockout blow slotted with holds than a slow recharging weak AoE attack that has only an 8' radius. But I would rather 5 slot it with crushing impact (so you still get 5% recharge), if you can get 6 slots, give it the hold damage proc. There, done. Makes you more flexible.

Spring Attack would be useful as an aggro tool if nothing else but there's no way I'd dump KoB for it. Instead dump Assault and lightly slot Spring Attack. Another PBAOE taken early is nice to have for tanking, particularly if you exemp down below level 33 for a TF or just to team with friends.

I'll second the suggestion to put the purple set into Foot Stomp if you can afford it. I'm not a fan of slotting the FF proc or the -res proc at the expense of basic functionality of a power... the purple damage proc will do more for you. Also I really like Fire Ball on any tanker; it's a great AOE and a nice big ranged attention getter.

As others have already said, KOblow is a far better choice than spring attack. If you're looking for more aoe damage the first thing I would do is change your mastery from energy to soul or fire.

Also slot Foot Stomp 5x Armageddon and the Forcefeedback proc, again as others have already mentioned the set bonuses and better procs (and better endredux on armageddon over oblits).

Completely agree with just about everything Kioshi just mentioned.

Now I am a little curious, but is this a farming build at all? PvP? You have this guy slotted for about 20billion influence :P.

Jab has a bit of weird frankenslotting with it. The power practically does no damage, all it's good for is bruising and damage procs. Honestly, I would probably just put in a Hami Dam/Acc into it. Use the slots elsewhere.

FF Proc in haymaker is a waste. Once out of every 10 attacks it might go off. A waste. Use the slot elsewhere, or put another damage proc in it, or put a tri or quad IO to round it out.

Reconsider 6 slotting your taunt with mocking beratement. You might like the extra endurance and more recharge.

Weave might be overslotted. Re-evaluate what you're gaining with that extra enhancement slot and determine if it is really worth it for your end goals.

I would one slot Assault with and endurance reduction. You shouldn't be having endurance recovery issues with your Epic.

Also, energy torrent would be a better power than spring attack. Slot it with ragnorak AND give it a FF proc. It can hit up to 10 targets and will provide you a decent aoe chain between it and footstomp. I would still recommend finding a spot for KO Blow, though. Perhaps drop assault, strip some of the over enhancing done on Jab and put it towards KO Blow.

Overall, I think you should be aiming at trying to achieve perma-Dull Pain, max out your HP, max your S/L resistances, and softcap the rest of your typed defenses. If you're doing that, you sohuld be quite fine.

Last thought, I think you will want to look into getting the new Alpha coming out that improves your Endurance Mod by 45% while giving your recharge and defense boosts too.

If you are THAT crazy about damage and dps...WHY the hell are you playing a tanker and not a brute? Serious question.

Skipping one of the best single target melee attacks in game..crazy.

Here's a build I came up with. I tried to keep a lot of the things you were aiming for with your build (I noticed you wanted a lot of psych resistance and defense) so I went with 4 imperviums to get you an additional 12% psy resistance and 7.5% psy defense. Personally, I would have went with Reactive armor to improve my S/L and E/N defense, but I totally can understand why you wanted a more all-around build.

I traded spring attack for energy torrent. Energy torrent is a cone that has 40' range and a 45 degree angle with a base 24 second recharge. It does decent damage, has a quick animation time, and can hit up to 10 people. It is a far superior selection for you.

I got rid of Jab's slots. It's only use is for bruising, otherwise, it is lousy damage with perhaps the worst DPA of any T1 attack. However, it is extremely quick to recharge and very low on endurance, thus I gave it a Dam/Acc Hami.

Also, I got rid of Super Jump for Knockout Blow. There are other means of travel available through Ninja Run, Rocket Board, or temp powers. I figure in this era of the game, there's no real need to use up a power for travel.

Now I left alpha off of this build because I believe the perfect Alpha will be agility and that's not in Mids yet. From my understanding, Agility T4 core will give you 45% Endurance Modification, 33% Recharge, and 20% Defense Boost. Now let me tell you, before incarnates you are already perma-Dull Pain (and with that you are maxed out for HP). You are capped in S/L resistance. Finally, with 6 enemies in your Invinsibility area you will be softcapped in S/L/F/C/E/N defenses, while carrying 28% defense for Psy.

With the Energy Mastery, you will not have any endurance issues, so I took some of your overslotting away... BUT with Agility, that slotting will come back and then some, so you'll have even better recovery than before without wasting the slots.

With the 33% recharge with 2/3 ED protection, you will have the following:
Perma-Hasten
61 second recharge on rage (easy double stacking)
5.52 second recharge on footstomp (prior to the FF proc)
6.19 second recharge on energy torrent
174 second recharge on conserve power (that's with only 1 recharge slotted, although you won't be needing to click this often, it's nice to know that half the time you could have this power up).
93 second recharge on Dull Pain, which is beyond perma, but still gives you your 80% heal that much sooner.

With the 20% defense with 2/3 ED protection, you will have the following:
Softcapped in S/L/F/C defense with 2 foes in your Invincibility Aura
Softcapped in E/N defense with 4 foes in your Aura
Psionic Defense goes up to nearly 30%

Now, I believe this toon is extremely loaded for endurance, so if it was me, I would sack 3 of the endurance enhancing slots, put 1 more recharge on conserve power, and take the last two to give you 6% more resistance in Psy since that seemed to be an important area for you. But I will stick with what I have built now...
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), ImpArm-ResDam(3), ImpArm-ResPsi(5)
Level 1: Jab -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal(5), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(9)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(11), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Hectmb-Dmg(13)
Level 6: Resist Elements -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(13), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(15), ImpArm-ResPsi(46), GA-3defTpProc(48)
Level 8: Unyielding -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(17), ImpArm-ResDam(17), ImpArm-ResPsi(19), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(50)
Level 10: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(43)
Level 14: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 16: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(19), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(25), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(25), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(27), Mocking-Rchg(27)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(23), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Tough -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam(29), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(29), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 28: Rage -- AdjTgt-Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(33), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(33), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(34), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(34)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(34), SW-ResDam/Re TP(40)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 35: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Dmg(40), FrcFbk-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Laser Beam Eyes -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(42), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apoc-Dmg(43), Achilles-ResDeb%(43)
Level 44: Energy Torrent -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(46), FrcFbk-Rechg%(46)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(48), P'Shift-EndMod(48), P'Shift-End%(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50)
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Spiritual Radial Paragon
------------
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(36), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(36)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(15)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 6% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 6% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 6% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 6% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 6% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 6% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 6% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 6% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 7.25% Defense(Melee)
• 8.5% Defense(Smashing)
• 8.5% Defense(Lethal)
• 9.13% Defense(Fire)
• 9.13% Defense(Cold)
• 6% Defense(Energy)
• 6% Defense(Negative)
• 13.5% Defense(Psionic)
• 6% Defense(Ranged)
• 7.56% Defense(AoE)
• 10.8% Max End
• 4% Enhancement(Heal)
• 100% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 61% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 10% FlySpeed
• 175.7 HP (9.38%) HitPoints
• 10% JumpHeight
• 10% JumpSpeed
• MezResist(Held) 2.75%
• MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
• 24.5% (0.41 End/sec) Recovery
• 78% (6.09 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 3% Resistance(Smashing)
• 11.82% Resistance(Fire)
• 11.82% Resistance(Cold)
• 4.26% Resistance(Energy)
• 4.26% Resistance(Negative)
• 3% Resistance(Toxic)
• 3% Resistance(Lethal)
• 15% Resistance(Psionic)
• 10% RunSpeed

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KO Blow over Spring attack every day in any build, ever.

Spring attack will only chip health away. With some damage buffs (oh look! rage!) KO blow can one shot minions and take huge chunks out of bosses and Lts.