Paragon Market Criticisms

I realize this is probably stuff that's been said time and time again, and that's fine. I realize there will be people who disagree, and even potentially flamers. That is also fine. But the fact of the matter is that if I disagree with something being done, I feel I should be allowed to voice my opinion. And I am, so here I go.

Ever since the VIP head start into Freedom, I have been noticing a few things added that I feel are bad decisions both as a business and as a game. My friends are sick to death of hearing me talk about it, so I figured I'd post it both to get it to the eyes of any devs that may read it, and to vent and get the feelings out in the open rather than bottle them up.

First, I would like to say that the price for costume slots is ridiculously high verging on gouging. I'm sure there are many who will say that the 800 points is nothing, and/or that it's optional so it doesn't matter. However, in this current economy especially, ten dollars for something completely aesthetic seems pricey, particularly for something of no real world value like an extra costume slot. Personally, I'd love extra costume slots if for no other reason than to have them, but want to go on the record in protest of ten dollars per slot. I would be willing to pay at most half of that.

That brings me rather nicely to my second point. This is probably the purpose, and I understand and respect that, but given the prices on the market, I feel like the VIP stipend just isn't enough to get as far as I feel it should. I have to wait two months for a powerset, and if I want to buy all of the new costumes coming out, that five dollars a month isn't going to do a whole lot for me. This is a minor criticism, not to be taken too heavily, and I realize it's likely by design rather than accident, but at the rate things are currently being released, the monthly stipend does not quite net VIPs everything they might want.

Finally, I wish to express my distaste in the inability of Premium players to use any Invention Origin enhancements they have already slotted into their characters. Denying them the ability to use the invention system henceforth is one thing entirely, but rendering their hard-earned character builds useless is unacceptable. The $2 a month fee for the Invention system should, at WORST, be a one time $2 fee. The point of free players is that they cannot necessarily AFFORD monthly fees, and denying them their past characters as such will undoubtedly turn many away who wanted to play the game again. I'm aware that there is a certain Paragon Rewards tier that nullifies this bar, but there's a solid chance the people to whom I'm referring weren't able to make it that far in the first place.

In conclusion, I would like to make one final point. In many debates I have read, heard, or been involved in, one point always comes up, and it's frankly tired to death already in our few short weeks of Freedom. "Well they have to deny the free players SOMETHING so there's a reason for them to pay! :P :P"

My rebuttal is thus: While that's true, they also have to PROVIDE incentive to returning free players to want to play the game. Denying the ability to play their old characters is the direct opposite of that.

I'd have to agree with some of your points, but I'm afraid it's going to fall on deaf ears.

The arguments you're going to hear from many forum posters is that they need additional revenue to add new content to the game. My rebuttal is that I pay $15 a month, which should be sufficient for incremental content added to the game. If it takes every cent from subscriptions just to keep the servers running, then something is seriously wrong.

I'm quite willing to shell out money for new expansion packs, considering the major amount of content you get in most expansion packs. However, the prices they're charging for small items would jack the price of said expansion pack 10 fold.

In short, the prices are way too high. The prices should be considerably less than what they're currently charging.

I think you will find many that agree that a lot of the prices are too high for their liking.
I am indeed one of them.

As one example, I agree with your assessment of the Costume Slot prices.
I'd love to have those, but not at that price and not at the current sale's price either.
To each their own, of course. I am hopeful that the selling of things will show them to shift the prices a bit lower. Perhaps they are even just grabbing what they can from the immediate crowd that is willing to pay those prices... and then we'll be able to get them some time soonish, down the road. I have no problem with that, really. I only know that *I* feel like some of the prices are too high (even if it is not large amounts of money, I still measure things by my personal value and won't budge on that).

You shouldn't receive any flames for your respectful post.
And you should check out the ongoing feedback thread for the market prices... I don't have a link handy at the moment or I'd post it.

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Originally Posted by Oakster It didn't feel as though it fit into my last post, but now that you mention it, I would be remiss if I did not add that Champions-Online, after going free to play, gave its VIP subscribers free costumes packs, and unless I'm mistaken (entirely possible), a few free power sets. It continues to give free content of a sort to the subscribers, but at the start they at least gave a few more perks and wanted a bit less money.

Just to be fair, they did give us bonus points to basically take our pick of "free" stuff.
Plus there are things that are free to VIPs that are not to others (Time Manipulation, for one).

On one specific point:

People played this game just fine with SOs for three years.
I still play it just fine with SOs.
The Devs have said that the game is still balanced around SOs.

Yes, it means you might sometimes get knocked back, and not be able to have some things up permanently. That's how this game works.

You don't even have to get rid of your existing IOs, just make a second (or third) build.

People do not necessarily WANT to come back to this game so that they can redo their entire build around SOs and play a dumbed down version of their character. Not only does it lessen the experience, but it's likely more work than anyone wants to put into coming back to the game.

Yes, SOs are fine and there's nothing wrong with them. They get me to level 50 perfectly well. The problem is that these people in all likelihood worked hard to put together a build to have an efficient character that they enjoy playing, and are arbitrarily denied all of it.

SOs work for some people, and that's wonderful for them. I merely do not see the point in taking IOs away from people who had already used them in the past.

P.S.: I've seen your character in game once or twice, and she has a nice costume.

Thank you. Sometimes, simple and classic is best.

I'd just like to say that while I can aggree that SOME items in the store are overpriced (i'm looking at you costume slots), I have to disagree with your assessment that the monthly stipend isn't enough. Sure it isn't enough to keep up with the influx of items but that is intentional. It is supposed to entice you to spend above and beyond the 15 a month.

Inventions... I can see why they aren't included in premium and frankly I don't foresee a change to the current model. For 2$ a month you can have access to inventions OR if your vet status is high enough have access forever as part of your account. I believe it is intentional to make you feel like you don't want to "play a dumbed down version" of your character. Inventions are one of the carrots to get you to spend as a non subscriber.

The intention of Freedom was never to get people to stop subscribing but it's the nature of the beast (especially in this economy) that people try to get more for less and see what they can wiggle to play the game spending as little as possible. Unfortunately many people are realizing there's a price for dropping your sub. That price used to be simply no access at all to the game, but now that price is playing with limitations... which is driving some people a little mad I think. It's easy to just walk away and forget when you have no access but to be able to poke your head in and be taunted with all the shiny you could have if you spent money can be maddening for some.

As to this poster:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules I'd have to agree with some of your points, but I'm afraid it's going to fall on deaf ears. The arguments you're going to hear from many forum posters is that they need additional revenue to add new content to the game. My rebuttal is that I pay $15 a month, which should be sufficient for incremental content added to the game. If it takes every cent from subscriptions just to keep the servers running, then something is seriously wrong. I'm quite willing to shell out money for new expansion packs, considering the major amount of content you get in most expansion packs. However, the prices they're charging for small items would jack the price of said expansion pack 10 fold. In short, the prices are way too high. The prices should be considerably less than what they're currently charging.

Your rebuttal makes no sense. The 15 a month you pay for your sub (which includes 5$ worth of points plus other stuff) IS sufficient for INCREMENTAL content added to the game... content such as I dunno... First Ward? Time Manipulation, IDF Costume Sets? The subscription cost is giving you more than it ever did in the past. The problem I see most people having is that there's just so much stuff being dangled in front of them and points are in short supply without spending extra... which is entirely the point of Freedom. The additional revenue generated by these "extra above and beyond additions to the game" are FUNDING these "extra above and beyond additions to the game" as well as growing the profit margin for the company which is a goal of any business.

The bottom line is that, while yes some items in the store are over priced, our subs give us more now than ever before. The goal is to lure in new players with the free to play experience and hopefully turn them into subscriber revenue. Failing that they hope to at least get some a la carte revenue generation from the freebies. No one can reasonably expect to have every feature or even most features available as a non subscriber and some of the best features like inventions are gated by either a la carte pricing or paragon reward status.

My agreement with Samuel goes over 900000%!!

I attempt to keep in mind that Paragon Studios is both trying to make money and provide entertainment. And I believe that they realize that those two things go hand-in-hand.
They may have made some mistakes and/or sided on the far side of one of those objectives, but I figure it will be evened out over time.
People make mistakes. They are human, after all... And then there is marketing, who are far less intelligent and not exactly human... So, we have to understand that these things are impeded a bit by these facts.
Hopefully adjustments will be made that we find to be better.
For now, just vote with your wallet.
I approve of them, so far, by giving them my subscription. Anything else will be on a case by case basis.

Not seeing the problem.

I get free points. I don't have to pay for anything extra if I don't want to. There's nothing in the store that we NEED in order to play the game. They are all fluff items. Only the people that desire instant gratification suffer the delusion that they have to pay for items in the store.

If the F2P and Prems want stuff for free from the store, they can sub just like the VIP's do.

I'm fine with no set bonuses for premiums. But those enhancements should do SOMETHING. I logged into my second account to find my characters at 0% enhancement to everything, and no cheap way to remove the enhancements and sell them. Even the basic IOs are at 0%
I don't see that as enticing old players to come back.

The only reason I bought the costume slots...well, ok, the thing that pushed it over for me was the fact I needed points bought to get the Celestial Armour. Plain and simple.

Had I not needed that boost, then I would have been having serious annoyance issues over the price, given how damn long we waited for extra costume slots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

going to add my flaming off here too.

i've spent DAYS trying to buy points to get St.J.
what i got instead is Days of support saying my bank is Refusing the charge to check with my bank whom:
1. flags plaync charges because they do some stupid one euro charge Then do the regular charge, the bank sees that "fishing" "Testing the waters" bit as what those doing Fraud do.
send a small test, if it works they charge more and higher until they drain the account.
2. AS the bank watched I made the buy, to get the Refused message from plaync and for my bank that was sitting there watching say the Charge was never Filed for them to refuse it.

Yet support says it's My bank causing the issues and refusing their charges..............yet also it's the same card pays and Been paying for my account for years.

Why do they always bring out these grand and Broken new things to give ppl headaches?
If you can't get it to Work stop bringing the damn things to live.