Demon Summoning (Whip power only) and....?

Last night during the Sewer Trial (Death from Below) one of my teammates was musing about how interesting it would be to just have the whip power and just have Pain Domination or Trick Arrow.

After the run I began to think about this... Is it possible to just have the whip power from DS and say Pain Domination or the like?

I've seen Tanks with builds that take only the tier 1 from the secondary (must have) and thats all, so they take all else the game offers for survivablilty. Can you? Of course. Practically, leveling it may be a pain unless you team all the time, and you'll likely get snarky comments. Use the Dual Build option, make one for teaming and playing the builds strengths another for your whims...

I made a DS/ Storm Summoner some time back, and was determined to use only the whip powers from Demon Summoning. Over a year later the character still hadn't reach L20, and was a liability to every team I ran with. Two weeks ago I respecced with demons on the menu, and the character works just fine.

I can summon the demons, place them in passive and leave them at the mish door, but when I didn't have even the possibility of demons, it was far too fragile and below the power curve on damage.

You can do this, but you will suck. You will be like a Sonic/Pain or Sonic/Trick Arrow corr, but with flashier graphics and a small fraction of the performance.

Don't waste your time, or the time of anybody who'd wind up teaming with this build.

These sorts of builds are called 'petless MMs' and you have to have very understanding friends to team with as they are quite underpowered.

As a Demon/TA MM (just hit 50), no way in hell are you going to be anything but the speedo-wearing fat kid at the swimming pool without your pets.

/TA may not be the worst secondary for a MM, but its no prize either. And the whips, even fully slotted, just do abysmal damage.

You may as well go roll a lobster-form Peacebringer if that's your plan. At least you'll survive.

It is possible though it does come at a significant cost in power. Bear in mind that MM pets are not only damage but, in essence, additional HP for the MM when in bodyguard mode.

Not only extra HP, but your pets are also:

-Aggro diversion from you (very helpful)
-Extra damage on your behalf (obviously)
-Extra healing for you (I get about +200 health every time they heal)
-Extra shielding for you(Ember Demons shield will grant you around 25% S/L/Toxic and about 34% on fire..stacks nicely with epic shield or Tough)

If your goal is you don't want the whole entourage, you could consider just taking the Tier 2 and 3 henchies. That gives you some buffing, healing and a great little aggro diversion to soak up the alpha strike. Think of them like a Traps player thinks of their seeker drones....just disposable alpha eaters. I often only summon my Tier 1's on iTrials to throw some diversion for my pursuers in the lab/warehouse cycle or to pull aggro off of me.

Let me start off by saying a pet-less mastermind is more of an endeavor of love and experimentation. Its like the rich guy that wants to spend half a million on stereo system for his home because he can. It isn't for the player who doesn't have 2 INF to rub together.

That being said..

I have to say I disagree with just about everyone here posting. Since you did say the like meaning something like this, that is pretty open ended.

I happen to have a Semi pet-less mastermind DS / Trap which has the last pet only and only the 2nd upgrade because I liked the look of the ice sword on the demon pet.

My build is completely defense capped and I currently have T3 Cardiac on him as well since on any Petless MM endurance is a tremendous issue.

I can and have soloed Crey Fire farm on a 2/8 setting comfortably and a 3/8 setting with a bit of work and closer attention.

I have seen players with a full set of powers to choose from that could not solo 1/5 setting let alone 2/8 setting. Heck I have seen lvl 50 tanks and brutes that couldn't solo Crey Fire on a 4/8 setting without having players feed them inspirations. So I think this whole notion of gimping one self irrelevant. I think if you understand some of the math, game mechanics and of course the money you can do anything in this game. I have no purple sets in the build as well.

I am not sure how pain would work. I do have a Pain DS MM that has around 660% personal regeneration. I don't know how well that would work when your taking a beating. I can say I survive much more then the pets do. I guess I could test it out with the one whip attack and a few vet powers just to see how I fair against some settings solo without pets.

My next plan is to use the 2nd build to create a SO pet build and run incarnate missions to unlock the rest of the alphas. I think just getting the T3s would be very interesting. Sadly the SO build is not defense capped but I will admit has more pets to produce greater dps output.

But again I have seen several lousy builds on these forums by players purporting to solo AVs with caltrops, so I think you need to see the build or know the source sometimes. Which I know clearly well works the other way as well.

thank you! You've given much to think about. I wonder if my teammate is succeeding in this endeavor. I admit I'm curious about this as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainguy Let me start off by saying a pet-less mastermind is more of an endeavor of love and experimentation. Its like the rich guy that wants to spend half a million on stereo system for his home because he can. It isn't for the player who doesn't have 2 INF to rub together. That being said.. I have to say I disagree with just about everyone here posting. Since you did say the like meaning something like this, that is pretty open ended. I happen to have a Semi pet-less mastermind DS / Trap which has the last pet only and only the 2nd upgrade because I liked the look of the ice sword on the demon pet. My build is completely defense capped and I currently have T3 Cardiac on him as well since on any Petless MM endurance is a tremendous issue. I can and have soloed Crey Fire farm on a 2/8 setting comfortably and a 3/8 setting with a bit of work and closer attention. I have seen players with a full set of powers to choose from that could not solo 1/5 setting let alone 2/8 setting. Heck I have seen lvl 50 tanks and brutes that couldn't solo Crey Fire on a 4/8 setting without having players feed them inspirations. So I think this whole notion of gimping one self irrelevant. I think if you understand some of the math, game mechanics and of course the money you can do anything in this game. I have no purple sets in the build as well. I am not sure how pain would work. I do have a Pain DS MM that has around 660% personal regeneration. I don't know how well that would work when your taking a beating. I can say I survive much more then the pets do. I guess I could test it out with the one whip attack and a few vet powers just to see how I fair against some settings solo without pets. My next plan is to use the 2nd build to create a SO pet build and run incarnate missions to unlock the rest of the alphas. I think just getting the T3s would be very interesting. Sadly the SO build is not defense capped but I will admit has more pets to produce greater dps output. But again I have seen several lousy builds on these forums by players purporting to solo AVs with caltrops, so I think you need to see the build or know the source sometimes. Which I know clearly well works the other way as well.

^ I was about to say the same thing. In which case you may as well go Traps/anything Defender, get the higher values on Traps and a better set of weapons. However, that does defeat the "whip weapon" character concept.

Although I would assume with capped defense almost anything can survive just fine. Killing speed and DPS would be of interest to me in this scenario. Especially for a Fire Farm.

Petless masterminds works if you pick up a secondary that can pick up the slack in terms of damage/survivability (eg traps). Pain is a poor choice for a petless mastermind.

The original petless mastermind concept proposal was that you would have to solo. If you team, there would be too much ambiguity about your contribution level relative to you just being along for the ride, ie being powerleveled.

You confirmed what I thought...for an ambush farm, with high personal defense, you can toebomb repeatedly without much fear of interruption. And yes, the cone whip (the only one I took after the respec you and others helped me devise) does do "ok" damage but mainly because it hits multiples.

I am currently running iTrials on my Demon/TA and pretty much go petless for the entirety of the LAM's except for the outer street clearing (unless its a speed-LAM). I survive just fine, but my henchmen do not. When I look around me, most other MM's are going petless as well. I use my henchies more, and see other MM's use theirs also, during BAF's.

I know I've said this before, but I don't ever care what powers any of my team-mates take or use. If someone has fun playing a MM w/o pets that's cool. If you want a Kin w/o speed boost that's cool. Use what you like.... it's all cool.