What to do with enhancement boosters?
By
Ashlocke,
Posted on: 2011-09-22 19:41 in The Market and Inventions
Oddly enough I seem to be the only one planning to use them for non 50 game play, I intend on using my 2nd build as a super exemplar build.
I really like my build at lv 50, and by duplicating that build using lv 25 and 30 Set IOs (estimating at the moment) instead of lv 50s I can keep all of my set bonuses while exemplared to very low levels while still having Set IOs that perform as if they are lv 50s.
To put this into perspective, my dwarf form at lv 50 because of all of his set bonuses has an S/L defense of 38% or so, I would still have that exemplared into a lv 25 TF once I complete this build, along with his enhanced endurance recovery and recharge bonuses etc.
I just need to figure out how low the IO can be at +5 boosts and still equal a lv 50 IO.
Once I get some free time, that's my plan.
EDIT:
I just glanced at Mids real fast, a lv 28+5 IO (42.63%) is the closest match to an unmodified lv 50 IO (42.4%).
This will let me exemplar down to almost all of the lower level content while retaining most of my set bonuses. In fact, because my slots are gathered on my Peace Bringer's lv 1-35 powers and no slots are used on powers I took past 35 other than their default slots, I'd say I'm keeping around 90%+ of my set bonuses when exemplared to most of the content I generally tend to run.
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
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Quote:
Enhancement scaling will make that plan ineffective. The more you boost, the more enhancement value you'll lose.
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Originally Posted by Ashlocke
Oddly enough I seem to be the only one planning to use them for non 50 game play, I intend on using my 2nd build as a super exemplar build.
I really like my build at lv 50, and by duplicating that build using lv 25 and 30 Set IOs (estimating at the moment) instead of lv 50s I can keep all of my set bonuses while exemplared to very low levels while still having Set IOs that perform as if they are lv 50s. To put this into perspective, my dwarf form at lv 50 because of all of his set bonuses has an S/L defense of 38% or so, I would still have that exemplared into a lv 25 TF once I complete this build, along with his enhanced endurance recovery and recharge bonuses etc. I just need to figure out how low the IO can be at +5 boosts and still equal a lv 50 IO. Once I get some free time, that's my plan. |
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Enhancement scaling begins at lv 31 and below, and doesn't really start to hurt for the first few levels. And more importantly for me, set bonuses don't scale. You either have them, or you don't|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Enhancement scaling will make that plan ineffective. The more you boost, the more enhancement value you'll lose.
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http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Exempl...n_Enhancements
Unless you are referring to something else, in which case please elaborate?
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
"Everyone needs to chill the hell out." - BackAlleyBrawler 11/13/08 3:26pm . . . Geeks around the world stopped and blinked.
Quote:
How do you do this?|
Originally Posted by JakHammer
Since Mids now allows you to apply the +'s look for every chance to use the minimum to get to ED upper yellow or red before you commit.
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Edit: NVM figured out the +- thing.
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When I build to exemp, I assume level 21. Which is pretty brutal scaling on the % bonuses. But then I end up playing at level 14 because those are some of my favorite missions hehe so the planning is wasted.|
Originally Posted by Ashlocke
Enhancement scaling begins at lv 31 and below, and doesn't really start to hurt for the first few levels. And more importantly for me, set bonuses don't scale. You either have them, or you don't
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Exempl...n_Enhancements Unless you are referring to something else, in which case please elaborate? |
And I can never figure out an optimized level 14 build so I just saw screw it and go with whatever junk I can cobble together and call it good enough.
but I have fun and that's what really counts.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
How do you get Mid's to apply the booster?
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Originally Posted by JakHammer
I have slotted about 100 boosters into one of my toons (so far) and plan to write a guide relating the whys and what I got in return for this insane investment. Let me sum up the results to date by saying that I am VERY pleased. Boosters can do some of the the following.
Turn any Level 50 set into a set with Purple % values. Since there are any number of sets that have set bonuses not available in the Purple for a particular power, and even more that have No Purple this can be a great thing. I have found that boosting Def/End or Resist/End in toggles is nifty. Using 25 boosters to to max out a 5 slot Crushing Impact allowed me to get more than double the endurance reduction of a Hecatomb set in my most endurance intensive Tier 9 melee attack. This move alone was huge in fixing long fight endurance problems. ( final % were Accy 53% || Damage 101.86 (Pre-ED: 145.75%) || Endurance 84.51% (Pre-ED: 86.12%) || Rchg 84.51% (Pre-ED: 86.12%) . That Tier 9 attack has an inherent accuracy bonus so even with the lesser Accy bonus compared to Hecatomb final Accy was fine. The slightly lower recharge value compared to Heca was ok when you look at the actual difference in 10th's of a second. And this allowed the Hecatomb to be placed into my most efficient DPS attack. This is the sort of analysis you will need to do if you want to go to the outer limits with boosters. Finally I have tried to be very careful to avoid fighting the ED dragon with boosters, if at all possible. Example - Hasten two level 50 Rchg Red - one at 50+5 and one at 50+3 and you go Red Level at 95.26%. After that the last two possible boosters are really wasted neting only 95.90%. Dual aspect level 50's and Purples are almost always where you want to look first, since you can usually find one that has two things that both need help. Triples with two needed aspects are next. Avoid quads but I have +5 ed one as it was the only choice left to get the values I had targeted to where I wanted them. Boosting lvl 30, 35 and 40 are frustrating by comparison but may be required. Since Mids now allows you to apply the +'s look for every chance to use the minimum to get to ED upper yellow or red before you commit. And don't just look at the ED status. Look at the actual effect on the power. Having 95% endurance reduction in a toggle that only draws .21 to begin with may not be woth the cost, etc. Lastly, if you are going to make a really significant change to a favorite Alt. (I am only going to do this ONCE to my main) then the cheapest you can buy Boosters appears to be as follows: Buy $100.00 (108.25 with tax) in points for max points per dollar. Buy the 90 booster bundle(s) for max boosters per point. Net cost for me doing this including the sales tax charged by my State is $0.225 per booster. Thus (so far) I have spent about $22.50 on the one toon. If I was tier 9 of course I could use tokens to get the repeatable booster pack and eventually do this on the cheap. But that is a long way off for me even with the tokens from my big points purchase. Jak |
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When selecting an enhancement press +.
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
How do you get Mid's to apply the booster?
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Ah, gotcha, I wasn't planning to build for that low actually, I was aiming for 25-30 range, and after checking the values on Mids (assuming they are correct) I should be more or less fine if I stay at lv 25 or higher, assuming I slot lv 28 IOs. I'll be suffering less than a 3% decrease in IO effectiveness from what I see. Which is totally acceptable to me.|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
When I build to exemp, I assume level 21. Which is pretty brutal scaling on the % bonuses. But then I end up playing at level 14 because those are some of my favorite missions hehe so the planning is wasted.
And I can never figure out an optimized level 14 build so I just saw screw it and go with whatever junk I can cobble together and call it good enough. but I have fun and that's what really counts. |
Thanks for the clarification.
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
"Everyone needs to chill the hell out." - BackAlleyBrawler 11/13/08 3:26pm . . . Geeks around the world stopped and blinked.
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Hmm, depends on which IOs you use. If you're a 50 exemped to 25, you keep 73.3% of your bonus. That's a loss of 26.7%, much more than 3.|
Originally Posted by Ashlocke
Ah, gotcha, I wasn't planning to build for that low actually, I was aiming for 25-30 range, and after checking the values on Mids (assuming they are correct) I should be more or less fine if I stay at lv 25 or higher, assuming I slot lv 28 IOs. I'll be suffering less than a 3% decrease in IO effectiveness from what I see. Which is totally acceptable to me.
Thanks for the clarification. |
Now, let's look at the "small bonus" rule. For level 25 you're on the same scale as me at 21 and that is anything under a 20% bonus is immune to reduction, anything 20% or higher drops to 73.3%.
So on level 28 IOs, let's say Eradication as it has one of everything:
Single = 34.1% higher than 20 therefore 24.99% (9.11% lost)
Dual = 21.3% higher than 20 therefore 15.61% (5.69% lost)
Trip = 17.1 less than 20 safe
Quad = 14.9 less than 20 safe
Damage gets hit the worst, acc/recharge have no single, and end only shows up on the quad. Not too bad really. But you can pick up some points by using the 24 duals rather than the 28s and avoiding that reduction.
Ok, so lets look at the whole set:
Optimal slotting:
Damage = 34.1 red 24.99
Acc/Rech = 21.3 use 19.2 (from the level 24 instead)
Dam/Rech = same
Ac/Da/Re = 17.1 boost +++ gives 19.67%
Quad = 14.9 boost +++++ gives 18.63
All 28s unboosted @ level 50 vs 7 boosts exemped to 25 w ideal slotting
Damage = 87.4% vs 82.49%
Acc = 53.3% vs 57.5%
Rech = 74.6% vs 76.7%
End = 14.9% vs 18.63%
and you still have one slot for either the proc or frankenslotting,
If you drop the boosts but keep ideal slotting otherwise:
Dam 76.19
Acc = 51.2
Rech = 70.4
End = 14.9
So 8 boosts give you at level 25: 6.3% dam, 6.3% acc, 63% rech, and 3.73% end. If you use any more boosts than this you actually start lowering your numbers while exemped.
FYI if you can frankenslot a few pieces here and there, the magic numbers are:
Level 50 quads = 18.6% = less than 20
Level 43 triples = 19.9% = less than 20
Level 24 duals = 19.2% = less than 20
And for boosting, @exemp to 25 here's your cheat sheet:
Level 28 Triple +++ = 19.67%
Level 50 Quad + = 19.53 (++ is over 20)
level 24 dual + = 20.16 = too high
Level 23 dual + = 19.32
So I think the 19.2 from a 24 dual is your best bet, I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend money for 0.12% on one enhancement.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
You don't lose set bonuses from powers that are unavailable due to examplaring. The only reason you lose the bonuses is if you are exemplared past three levels below the level of the enhancements (barring purples and PvP IOs of course). So for example exemplared to level 40, you would still lose the set bonuses in a power you took at level one if the IOs slotted in that power were level 50 IOs. On the other hand, exemplared to level 20 you would still keep your bonuses from a power you took at level 49 as long as the IOs were level 23 or below.
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Originally Posted by Ashlocke
In fact, because my slots are gathered on my Peace Bringer's lv 1-35 powers and no slots are used on powers I took past 35 other than their default slots, I'd say I'm keeping around 90%+ of my set bonuses when exemplared to most of the content I generally tend to run.
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ty!!!|
Originally Posted by giant2005
when selecting an enhancement press +.
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<3
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This is very important to keep in mind.
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Originally Posted by Supernumiphone
You don't lose set bonuses from powers that are unavailable due to examplaring. The only reason you lose the bonuses is if you are exemplared past three levels below the level of the enhancements (barring purples and PvP IOs of course). So for example exemplared to level 40, you would still lose the set bonuses in a power you took at level one if the IOs slotted in that power were level 50 IOs. On the other hand, exemplared to level 20 you would still keep your bonuses from a power you took at level 49 as long as the IOs were level 23 or below.
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"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
I hate to say it but these things only seem worth it on lvl 50 purples or pvp IOs where you keep the bonuses. Possibly the upcoming purchaseable enhancement sets but again I would have to see how it works out with those and the boosters.
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Quote:
You don't keep the bonus. Purple and PvP you keep the set bonus but boosters don't change that. The actual enhancement value of a PvP or purple is reduced when you exemplar just like any other IO. However, the Purples start at a higher value so that helps.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I hate to say it but these things only seem worth it on lvl 50 purples or pvp IOs where you keep the bonuses. Possibly the upcoming purchaseable enhancement sets but again I would have to see how it works out with those and the boosters.
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As I see it, the real value is in where you can free up a slot but have the same bonus at the end. Like being able to get by with two in haste instead of 3.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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I get that examplar butchers enhancements but doesnt it start at a much higher number or does it count like the boosters arent even there before the exemplar crunch?
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
You don't keep the bonus. Purple and PvP you keep the set bonus but boosters don't change that. The actual enhancement value of a PvP or purple is reduced when you exemplar just like any other IO. However, the Purples start at a higher value so that helps.
As I see it, the real value is in where you can free up a slot but have the same bonus at the end. Like being able to get by with two in haste instead of 3. |
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Quote:
This is what I'm seeing (at least at this early date) as the big advantage to Boosters, and why I'll use 'em consistently on my upper-tier builds.|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Like being able to get by with two in haste instead of 3.
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Then again, I rarely exemp down, so for the most part I don't have to worry about any bonus degradation.
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Sort of. The exemping penalty kicks in before ED. So overslotting helps. And it doesn't happen at all unless you go down to level 31 or lower.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I get that examplar butchers enhancements but doesnt it start at a much higher number or does it count like the boosters arent even there before the exemplar crunch?
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So, let's look at Armageddon to compare to my eradication math earlier.
single: 53%
dual: 33.1%
Triple: 26.5%
If you exemplar to 25 all of these will drop to 73.3%. Also the damage gets hit with "rule 2: Maximum bonus. Before applying the scaling percentage any bonus higher than 41.5 is reduced to 41.5". This is the opposite of the small bonus benefit when exemping.
single: 30.42%
dual: 24.26%
triple: 19.42%
So Armageddon gives (before ED @50 vs @25)
D 157% vs 98.37
R 92.7% vs 67.95%
A 59.6% vs 43.69%
E 33.1 vs 24.26%
If you boost it five times on all pieces this works really awesome at level 50, and it does help the lower numbers somewhat, but then every piece except the triple hits the higher than 41.5% limit.
Boosted +++++ @50 vs @25 vs Erad optimal @25
D 182.13 vs 115.54 vs 82.49%
R 115.88 vs 85.12 vs 76.7%
A 74.5 vs 54.70 vs 57.5%
E 41.38 vs 30.4195 vs 18.63%
Post ED that damage is still going to be noticeably higher than the Eradication. So will endurance. Recharge and accuracy not so different but a small edge still.
Is that work the extra billions in Inf and 25 boosters to you? Maybe. It's definitely higher bonuses across the board. And you do get the full set of set bonuses.
Exemped to 25 boosting all of them to max gives about 17% damage, 13% recharge, 11% acc and 6% end.
By comparison, boosting and optimizing eradication gave 6.3% dam, 6.3% acc, 6.3% rech, and 3.73% end.
I have no idea how ED will impact this as I am not that good at math.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
I now have all the non-repeatable stuff bought for
A few tokens a year (we get one per month now) on boosters is probably worth it for any marginal gains on my main.
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Gavin, first off, would like to thank you for the elaborate detailed explanation of what would happen exemplared to 25. That being said, I have to warn you, I'm not a huge numbers guy and my head nearly exploded trying to wrap my brain around all of that.
So I "think" the best solution for me in order to keep my concept in tact with creating an exemplar build with little loss in power is to just move my exemplar target level from 25 to 30.
If I slot lv 33 IOs and boost them up, they will actually be better than lv 50 non boosted IOs, and I can keep the set bonuses as low as lv 30. And I wont suffer much enhancement scaling from 31 (where scaling begins) to exemplared 30 it seems.
Oddly enough, most of the quirky set bonus mechanics I knew about, like being able to keep set bonuses even in powers taken in the 40s when exemplared far below that as long as the set IOs were within the 3 level rule. I just phrased things poorly, and mashed together things that technically aren't set bonuses into the same thought, such as procs, etc.
Thanks again.
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
"Everyone needs to chill the hell out." - BackAlleyBrawler 11/13/08 3:26pm . . . Geeks around the world stopped and blinked.
Quote:
Here's the short version. If you want to stay with the exemp target of 25 here is a cheatsheat of the best slotting:|
Originally Posted by Ashlocke
Gavin, first off, would like to thank you for the elaborate detailed explanation of what would happen exemplared to 25. That being said, I have to warn you, I'm not a huge numbers guy and my head nearly exploded trying to wrap my brain around all of that.
So I "think" the best solution for me in order to keep my concept in tact with creating an exemplar build with little loss in power is to just move my exemplar target level from 25 to 30. If I slot lv 33 IOs and boost them up, they will actually be better than lv 50 non boosted IOs, and I can keep the set bonuses as low as lv 30. And I wont suffer much enhancement scaling from 31 (where scaling begins) to exemplared 30 it seems. Oddly enough, most of the quirky set bonus mechanics I knew about, like being able to keep set bonuses even in powers taken in the 40s when exemplared far below that as long as the set IOs were within the 3 level rule. I just phrased things poorly, and mashed together things that technically aren't set bonuses into the same thought, such as procs, etc. Thanks again. |
Part of a set you want bonuses from:
Single IO: Use level 28s
Dual: Use level 24 unboosted
Triple: Use level 28+++
Quad: Use 28+++++
Frankenslotting for numbers without set bonuses:
Single IO: Use level 50 (don't bother boosting because of the large bonus rule)
Dual: Use level 24 unboosted
Triple: Use Level 43 unboosted
Quad: Use level 50+
Purples:
Single: unboosted
All others: boost+++++
PvP IOs would follow frankenslotting rules, but pretty much only level 50s are available so follow purple rules instead just to make life easy.
I'll do a no math cheatsheet like this for level 30 tomorrow. I just got off work and my brain isn't functional. But I am 90% sure that your plan for 33s boosted 5 times is a solid one.
And thanks for getting me off my lazy bum to figure this out. Usually I just wing it and end up screwing my builds over big time.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Almost all of my level 50s use 2 Level 50 IOs for maximum return on slot investment, so I'm throwing 5 into one of each pair:|
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
This is what I'm seeing (at least at this early date) as the big advantage to Boosters, and why I'll use 'em consistently on my upper-tier builds.
Then again, I rarely exemp down, so for the most part I don't have to worry about any bonus degradation. |
Health: L50+5 Heal IO, L50 Heal IO (and the 3 uniques, obviously)
Stamina: L50+5 EndMod IO, L50 EndMod IO (and a Performance shifter proc)
Hasten: L50+5 Rech IO, L50 Rech IO
etc. Instead of 84% enhancement after ED, I get 93%. Worth it for me to spend tokens on when I get them.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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When you buy the 90 pack does it go to all characters or just one?
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I like using a +3 Dam/acc hami-O and a 50 (+5) damage IO. 93% damage and 38% accuracy, for one slot investment. It's nice, allows you to focus on other things, conserve slots.
TW/Elec Optimization
Evil, when you buy the 90 package (or any other quantity fot that matter) the package will be in your Character Items section of your email. They will be available to be claimed, one at a time, by any character on your account.
I found that, in doing massive boosts, it was best to plan each power out seperatly and then claim exactly the number of boosters (usually 5 or 10) for that power only. It helped this old man keep what went where straight, and avoided having any boosters claimed by my main and then not used.
Jak
I am considering using my free unslotters to pull two-three Ragnarok pieces off a seldom played toon to complete the Purple sets on the Main when the bids on two remaining Geddon pieces fill (two sets done two to go). But I am disinclined to boost them pre-transfer. I guess I could single Boost a generic I plan to use and email it. I'll report back if I do.
Jak
EDIT:
Ok purchased a Generic Lvl 50 Accy.
Claimed 1 booster.
Attempted to boost while in Enhancement tray - Fail.
Put generic in Brawl and boosteed to +1. (SO, you can Only Boost a Slotted IO.)
Claimed 1 Unsloter. Unsloted Boosted Generic.
Attempted to enter Base - crashed.
Reloaded and successfully entered base.
Attempted to put the Boosted IO in an empty Enhancement Storage Bin - red message "You cannot etc. ..." Tried on a Bin that had some in it - same message.
Attempted to email Boosted IO - red message- "You cannot etc. ..."
It Appears, At This Time, that BOOSTED IO's are BOUND to the Character that makes them, Period.
I am sure glad that I was careful to only boost pieces I know are certain to stay on my Main no matter what I do with the rest of the build.
Clearly you would commit few if any boosters to a toon you were not in love with
Jak
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.