Why play a Force Field now when there is Time Manipulation?


BrandX

 

Posted

I have been wondering this for quite some time now:

What is the positives of Force Field that would make someone choose it over Time Manipuation?

Seeing as Time Manipuation can apply the same(SUPERIOR??!?!?!?) benefit that force field to its teamates with the sole exception of the mez protection bubble, AND deliver a full suite of buffs and debuffs on top of that...

Force Field is looking pretty sad.

I just am trying to understand what the point of the set is now.


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Posted

Why play? Concept. Not everything has to be min/max.


 

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I have a feeling that PBU and the +Defense power that Time offers are not going to be compatible for that much longer.

Other than that, you answered your own question: FF gives mez protection (other than sleep) to squishies. And -END drain protection. If they want those things, then they would choose TM over FF. It's what I did on my FF/Beam defender.


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Posted

Not to mention, isn't Time Manipulation a rather busy set? FF is pretty simple and straight forward: cast bubbles, stand by squishy and play.

With Time, do you not have to make sure to call your team so that everyone is in range of the +def? Then you're casting a ST debuff that makes your other debuffs better, then casting a ST buff that makes your buffs better, then heals and more buffs/debuffs...

I figure, that bubbler will be tagging along behind your time, shooting stuff and keeping you from getting mezzed while your time is busy trying to 'outclass' him, ultimately making *their* job easier (is that possible?) but your job more tedious?


 

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On a sidenote we also had cold before. Not a whole lot changed - underdog is underdog.
So you can still roll FF for pretty much the same reasons as before, which is - as mentioned - concept and fun and all that.


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Posted

Is that a monthly topic or forum meme? Whether a new set is released or not, there's always a 'why play FF' topic here or on the Defender forums.


 

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Why play Force Field since VEATs exist?


 

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This seems kind of like asking "why ride a horse when we could have a Segway?" If people are still riding horses after all the time we've had all the other modes of transport that came along between when everyone rode horses and when they invented the Segway, the answer it probably either because they specifically want to (concept) or it does something they want specifically that the alternative doesn't. (Try to get a Segway to jump a fence.)


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Time Manipulation characters can't enable a toggle power that automatically repels all nearby baddies, and then set a Brute or Scrapper to auto-follow.

'Nuff said.


@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too

 

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*Insert shameless plug for bubbler buffs here*

Oh wait, I just did.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord View Post
Time Manipulation characters can't enable a toggle power that automatically repels all nearby baddies, and then set a Brute or Scrapper to auto-follow.

'Nuff said.
Plus if you see another melee guy actually managing to attack someone, you can use Force Bolt which can achieve 50 mag KB with proper slotting! On top of Repulsion field with can get to 17, Repulsion Bomb and of course pairing it with Energy Blast and you have the ultimate 'no melee allowed' toon!


 

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OH I didn't factor in the "fun" of being able to bug indoor missions at will with Force Bubble.

Never mind then!

I know people roll stuff for concept... but i mean come on Force Field is rather sad.


When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...


BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Rat View Post
OH I didn't factor in the "fun" of being able to bug indoor missions at will with Force Bubble.

Never mind then!

I know people roll stuff for concept... but i mean come on Force Field is rather sad.
Then continue not playing it.


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Posted

Force Field needs a buff.

Technically its not completely comparable to Time because FF provides better defense to teammates. On a Controller the defense numbers from Farsight with Power Boost are better than Force Field without PB, but Force Field can (and IMO kind of has to) also PB and bring that up to fairly astounding levels. The -End Drain is also somewhat useful. Force Field also has a sweet spot between around levels 15 and 40 where it is awesome because other sets haven't matured yet.

However, what really stands out about FF is that most of its powers are not buffs. They are attacks and control powers. They are just so awful that the set has become known for its buffs only. Force Field actually has exactly as many offensive powers as Cold Domination and Time Manipulation. By its rights Force Field should be a clicky set. It just isn't because the game has never gotten serious about making knockback, intangible, or repel legitimately desirable in mass quantities versus what you could get by just using a Nemesis Staff temp power.


 

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I won't say it doesn't need a buff, but FF is really fun to play and it's never seemed bad to me. It gives you more self-defense options with the KB powers. It'll keep your team alive longer during the leveling process, which originally was what the game was really about...FF still offers some things that Time doesn't in force bolt/force bubble/repulsion bomb, I guess it just depends on your preferred playstyle.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
Plus if you see another melee guy actually managing to attack someone, you can use Force Bolt which can achieve 50 mag KB with proper slotting! On top of Repulsion field with can get to 17, Repulsion Bomb and of course pairing it with Energy Blast and you have the ultimate 'no melee allowed' toon!

I have an open question about Force Bolt and what "Mag 50" knockback actually means for this power. At one time I had the power fully slotted for knockback. I was never able to find an enemy that I could knockback with slotted Force Bolt that I couldn't unslotted, which wouldn't be as bad if the distance enemies traveled in the slotted versus unslotted versions wasn't almost the same. I had envisioned Mag 50 throwing an enemy clear across the room. But it appears that knockback does not work this way. I would estimate the furthest I have ever thrown a same level enemy caps out at around Mag 15 or so, maybe a little further. Lower level enemies are rag dolls, maybe because when Mag 50 gets multiplied by modifiers it turns into Mag 300 or something, but even that doesn't throw them the unreasonable distance it sounds like... certainly not 300 times the base knockback distance.

With knock UP powers, like Levitate, I have very clearly witnessed the power throw enemies a further distance because of slotting. But I can't really say I have with Force Bolt and I have no idea why.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
However, what really stands out about FF is that most of its powers are not buffs. They are attacks and control powers. They are just so awful that the set has become known for its buffs only. Force Field actually has exactly as many offensive powers as Cold Domination and Time Manipulation. By its rights Force Field should be a clicky set. It just isn't because the game has never gotten serious about making knockback, intangible, or repel legitimately desirable in mass quantities versus what you could get by just using a Nemesis Staff temp power.
How much of that is the fault of the devs and how much of that is the fault of the players? While I'll admit that a lot more could be done, even with the current engine, don't most players openly shun anything where positioning the enemy would be advantageous outside of simple herding?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuel View Post
How much of that is the fault of the devs and how much of that is the fault of the players? While I'll admit that a lot more could be done, even with the current engine, don't most players openly shun anything where positioning the enemy would be advantageous outside of simple herding?

IMO you can't fault players for following the strategy that works. What most players openly shun is hobbling themselves. Since they can get the job done without Force Field's knockback, there is no reason for it, especially in the volumes presented. I replaced my Force Field character's knockback powers with a temp power and moved on. The character is even called the "Pinball Blizzard" but short of vaulting enemies all over Atlas Park for the purpose of "minion hockey" he functions much better by ignoring all but 4 of his powers. The others he only has for costume purposes on an alternate build.

PS I'll add that the Stalker version of Energy Aura burning down its cottage gives me hope for Repulsion Field and Force Bolt yet. While I don't really care if the powers still throw enemies around, if they are going to do that there needs to be some reason why throwing them around is actually beneficial. Maybe I'm just a bad player but until I see a video of someone actually using Force Field's knockback powers as part of a legitimate long term strategy that rivals competing sets I'm more inclined to believe in the existence of the yeti. The One Time someone had to knockback a boss does not count; I already do that with the Nemesis Staff. I wish there was a temp power to replace what is in other support sets.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Rat View Post
I know people roll stuff for concept... but i mean come on Force Field is rather sad.
Not as sad as making another "Why roll FF" thread.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
PS I'll add that the Stalker version of Energy Aura burning down its cottage gives me hope for Repulsion Field and Force Bolt yet. While I don't really care if the powers still throw enemies around, if they are going to do that there needs to be some reason why throwing them around is actually beneficial. Maybe I'm just a bad player but until I see a video of someone actually using Force Field's knockback powers as part of a legitimate long term strategy that rivals competing sets I'm more inclined to believe in the existence of the yeti. The One Time someone had to knockback a boss does not count; I already do that with the Nemesis Staff. I wish there was a temp power to replace what is in other support sets.
FF/Bots.

My bots are squishy for quite some time. I don't want something coming up to melee them.

Force Bolt. *bam* Now no longer melee.

My Defender is squishy. Tank loses aggro, something chases me.

Force bolt. *Bam* Enemy is now back in with the tank.

My Controller puts down an ice slick/volcanic gasses/etc. Something's not in it. Force bolt - they are.

And before you say Repulsion field or Force bubble do that - Force Bolt does it far earlier.

As for repulsion field - it's better paired with some sets than others. If I don't want stuff in melee and I'm running fairly high settings, but I don't want them shoved back as far as Force Bubble - Repulsion Field fits the bill.

I don't see what's so difficult about that.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuel View Post
How much of that is the fault of the devs and how much of that is the fault of the players? While I'll admit that a lot more could be done, even with the current engine, don't most players openly shun anything where positioning the enemy would be advantageous outside of simple herding?
Yes


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
I don't see what's so difficult about that.

I could have done every one of the things you listed with my Nemesis Staff.

Anyway, videos or it didn't happen. I want to see one of these knockback pros in action. If it exists great, I'd like to learn how to do it.

EDIT: I'll throw this bone to you. Repulsion Field is auto hit and has no combat speed penalty for casting. I have used it a few times. But not enough to retain in an actual live build. Even pool powers are better choices.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuel View Post
How much of that is the fault of the devs and how much of that is the fault of the players? While I'll admit that a lot more could be done, even with the current engine, don't most players openly shun anything where positioning the enemy would be advantageous outside of simple herding?
They shun it because it requires the user to not suck with it, and most people do.