Farmer Doom says; "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

MeMDC80 · 09-20-2011 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant2005

Previously I ran one mish to get 1500 tickets and 100% xp, now I have to run two mishes for 100% xp but I get 3000 tickets for my efforts. The Devs have doubled the ticket gains.

But that is the thing with me and my point.. I do not care about makin the infamy/tickets.. I rather have the XP so i can play my toon at lvl 50 so i can enjoy everything in the game. Alot of people sitting back getting upset over people wanting to PL there toons but its there choice really. As if it is your choice to play the arch or stay at low lvls. For Example: The players that do only PvP in the game. They pay to PvP not play at lvl 10-20 for days. They make their toons to get them to 50 asap to build them and get them into battle, and they do that because it is their choice to do so. As of the Market being brought up as well. The market prices suck but yet why not do away with the market and everything is bought from a vendor? In that case everyone would be paying same price for it and also has the same opportunity to have a uber toon.

ultrawatt · 09-20-2011 02:37 PM

I dont farm a lot anymore but this was my reaction.

Gonna need to change the FIRE! map tho today

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Giant2005 · 09-20-2011 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeMDC80

But that is the thing with me and my point.. I do not care about makin the infamy/tickets.. I rather have the XP so i can play my toon at the fun SF/TF/Trials etc.

But you get the same xp either way, you do lose a little time in entering and exiting the mish for a second time but that time is very marginal at best.

Giant2005 · 09-20-2011 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultrawatt

I dont farm a lot anymore but this was my reaction.

Gonna need to change the FIRE! map tho today

That is pure gold!

Rodion · 09-20-2011 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slazenger

I thought all the high amount mobs in farmer mission put extra stress on the server (maybe wrong), I would call that having an effect on how I play my game?

Yes, if one player is running a solo mission at x8 with 6 active ambushes, that player will be using at least an order of magnitude more CPU time than a player who's running a regular mission at x1. That will cause more load on the server and potentially cause more server-based when there are a lot of players active.

The server has to look at every mob to determine what their actions are, and if they're in close proximity to the player and/or are aggroed, the server will have to run through the logic to determine their actions.

We don't know exactly how the server is written, but assuming the code is reasonably well optimized, mobs in another part of the mission that aren't yet on the aggro list won't require any processing and won't even be examined most of the time. Therefore, people running regular missions won't use a whole lot of CPU. But fire farms with x8 spawns and multiple ambushes will be using oodles of CPU time.

Venture · 09-20-2011 02:51 PM

Quote:

I just don't understand people who hate on certain groups (farmers, PvPers, PvEers, whatever) as if the fact that they like to do (farm, PvP, PvE, whatever) somehow lessens other fun in the game.

Because farmers have the same effect on AE as, say, a paintball match would have if held in the same room as the chess club.

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Hyperstrike · 09-20-2011 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haetron

Because, as farms get upvoted by the farming community, it makes legitimate arcs harder to find.

I say this, as someone who does farm sometimes, but I can definitely see the frustration in working for a month on an arc for it to see less than ten plays and never be touched.

While I can see this, unfortunately, at this late a date it's a done deal with AE. Because the devs LITERALLY couldn't police the entirety of a system that flexible, it became a haven for farms.

And I don't care WHAT the devs said or expected. If they couldn't see that minmaxing for farming purposes was GOING to happen they would make Helen Keller appear to be a world-class sniper.

And, because it takes so long to roll out fixes and nerfs in the AE, it's become, by reputation, the purview of farmers at this point. And so long as farmers can build missions that are more renumerative for their time/effort than standard missions, you're going to CONTINUE the perception that AE is the sole purview of farmers.

I feel for the mission engineers. I really do. But "fixing AE" at this point is only a very SMALL part of the battle they're trying to wage. The battle for people's PERCEPTION of AE is basically like trying to stop a tsunami with an egg dicer and a colander (with both hands epoxied to one's nethers).

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joebartender · 09-20-2011 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant2005

But you get the same xp either way, you do lose a little time in entering and exiting the mish for a second time but that time is very marginal at best.

As an avid ticket farmer this isn't going to change much for me.

Arc needs adjusted to remove the rez is all. Still cap tickets on one room. Takes 30 seconds longer now. Once the rez is removed that figures to be about 15 seconds longer as I won't be wasting attacks on something that isn't going to give me a reward.

So 75-85 seconds a run.

My biggest bottleneck is still going to be doing all the rolls and crafting and listing. That takes 30min of each hour for me.

I really want to log onto Freedom and see if anyone is running a two for one nerf day special just for a giggle though.

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MeMDC80 · 09-20-2011 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodion

We don't know exactly how the server is written, but assuming the code is reasonably well optimized, mobs in another part of the mission that aren't yet on the aggro list won't require any processing and won't even be examined most of the time. Therefore, people running regular missions won't use a whole lot of CPU. But fire farms with x8 spawns and multiple ambushes will be using oodles of CPU time.

You have a point but yet at the sametime, when mothership raids go on and you have a 30-40 man league running with all the Rikti or all the trial leagues and etc goin on in a full server. I would think a X8 fire ambush farm is petty to that and everyone is knocking down the AE farmin and pushin the blame on just the AE or so it seems, but it is not the only factor in the matter of oodle of CPU time.

Eva Destruction · 09-20-2011 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant2005

Previously I ran one mish to get 1500 tickets and 100% xp, now I have to run two mishes for 100% xp but I get 3000 tickets for my efforts. The Devs have doubled the ticket gains.

Ah, you're hitting the cap long before you click out. Gotcha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeMDC80

How u figure farmers are pumpin the infamy into the system? There are many ways to make money in the game and way better ways to make that money over AE farmin. Yes AE farm is a good way to make money, but beings they making the money doesn't mean they are pumpin it into the market. If you are blaming farming on the high costs at market better pay more attention in the game because there is more to that than just farming. I am sure the RMTers just didn't get the money from the AE.. Such thing as called PvP IO farmin as well which has been proven to bring dbl the amount of money as AE farms..

Ok, I see now that you have no understanding of how the game economy works.

And please, enlighten me on where you think the RMTers get their inf from. It should be good for a laugh.

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Giant2005 · 09-20-2011 03:46 PM

I just updated my mobs to SR instead of Regen, I never realized it before but the tiny amount of Regen they had previously gave them quit a significant amount of survivability. The mobs are dying a noticeable amount faster now.

Memphis_Bill · 09-20-2011 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eva Destruction

If you use the market, farming does affect you. AE farmers are pumping inf into the system at an exorbitant rate. Unless you somehow manage to play in a vacuum, any action large numbers of other players take affects you.

You only look at the negative.

Have you compared, say, Alchemical Silver now to what it was, oh, two weeks ago? I have.

2 weeks (ish) ago = 300,000 or so.
Now = 25,000. Sometomes down to 10-15k.

They may be "pumping INF into the system at an exorbitant rate," but others are pumping *supply* into the system as well. I know, because *I* do it when I'm trying to get stuff for crafting IOs for SGs. Need X and Y, dump W, Z, Q, B, and V onto the market in stacks. Repeatedly. And I don't need a specialized farm or farming character to do it.

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Memphis_Bill · 09-20-2011 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperstrike

While I can see this, unfortunately, at this late a date it's a done deal with AE. Because the devs LITERALLY couldn't police the entirety of a system that flexible, it became a haven for farms.

They would have had to hire people to review each arc as it came down the pipe, and approve it before it went "live," quite frankly. Just imagine the backlog that would have created...

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Aipaloovik · 09-20-2011 03:54 PM

I thought most of the farmers made their money rolling ticket rewards and dumping product into the market. More product doesn't drive prices up generally. Or have I missed the point of farming? Basing that understanding off the CEBR thread.

ultrawatt · 09-20-2011 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aipaloovik

I thought most of the farmers made their money rolling ticket rewards and dumping product into the market. More product doesn't drive prices up generally. Or have I missed the point of farming? Basing that understanding off the CEBR thread.

This slows down not onlys ticket gain, slightly, but also how quickly you can PL someone.

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Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal

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Crysys · 09-20-2011 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haetron

Because, as farms get upvoted by the farming community, it makes legitimate arcs harder to find.

I say this, as someone who does farm sometimes, but I can definitely see the frustration in working for a month on an arc for it to see less than ten plays and never be touched.

Actually, I LOL'd at the new "Signature Arcs!" offering in the Paragon market announcements.

It looks like the COH boys are horning in on custom content, but they get to make a profit on their works of art!

Giant2005 · 09-20-2011 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultrawatt

This slows down not onlys ticket gain, slightly, but also how quickly you can PL someone.

Actually, from my testing it seems to increase both. We should have been doing this a long time ago.
Without the regen, one footstomp and one tick of a damage aura is enough to kill the minions, TTK has gone down significantly.

MeMDC80 · 09-20-2011 04:36 PM

As for farmers pumpin infamy into the market i am sure they do some but yet all the rolls i get that i do not use goes on market for a cheap price. My salvage i get goes on marke for cost of 111 infamy. I do agree that Farmin AE does help stock up the Market supply to help the prices stay sorta low. If AE would be taken out i bet anything Market price would sky rocket cuz alot of the market stuff comes from AE

Virusman · 09-20-2011 05:10 PM

To anybody who thinks the solution to farming is nerfing AE.. you're wrong.

AE pumps more supply into the market than it does actual INF.

And whoever says goldfarmers use AE? They use actual dev created farm missions for purples, and play the market. They don't even necessarily care about GENERATING goods to the market, just getting what's available to sell. Any rate, the potential to make cash is far and above outside of AE.

Anyway it's nice to get some honesty from the devs for once. They don't want us to use AE for farming. Thanks for coming out and saying it!

Edit: Also, there's no way this was anything but an attempt to slow down leveling. The addition of MORE mission instances to the server over a short period of time isn't going to be increasing performance.

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MeMDC80 · 09-20-2011 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virusman

To anybody who thinks the solution to farming is nerfing AE.. you're wrong.

AE pumps more supply into the market than it does actual INF.

And whoever says goldfarmers use AE? They use actual dev created farm missions for purples, and play the market. They don't even necessarily care about GENERATING goods to the market, just getting what's available to sell. Any rate, the potential to make cash is far and above outside of AE.

Anyway it's nice to get some honesty from the devs for once. They don't want us to use AE for farming. Thanks for coming out and saying it!

Edit: Also, there's no way this was anything but an attempt to slow down leveling. The addition of MORE mission instances to the server over a short period of time isn't going to be increasing performance.

Well said and that about sums it all up to all points....

Giant2005 · 09-20-2011 06:08 PM

Here is a brief summary of what I am noticing.
Due to this change the xp/sec is pretty much exactly where it was, due to using SR instead of regen, the mobs die faster and they travel to you faster. This counters the extra time spent going in and out of the mish.
My ticket gains have doubled which is nice.
The fun factor however, has plummeted - it just doesn't seem as fun without the rezzes...

RemianenI · 09-20-2011 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virusman

And whoever says goldfarmers use AE? They use actual dev created farm missions for purples, and play the market. They don't even necessarily care about GENERATING goods to the market, just getting what's available to sell. Any rate, the potential to make cash is far and above outside of AE.

The people who think RMTers use AE as a primary means of inf generation don't know any RMTers (from ANY game) and/or are so naive as to believe AE is the single most profitable activity in CoH. It's not, by any stretch of the imagination. Go look at the ever escalating market value of purples and PvP IOs. Now, consider how often salvage and recipe prices spike (especially after double xp weekend and/or an issue that rolls out new powersets). Freedom is making these people drool at the prospects of all those fr00bs descending on the game with ZERO clue on what the 'market value' of anything is. Some of those people will be PL'd up (often for prestige purposes) which will lead to even more "NAO!" type buyers.

The OP has no idea how creative farmers can be (and exploiters are 10x more creative than farmers - and no, they're not the same group of people). It took Giant all of a couple hours to find a solution that beats the so-called nerf and might be even better than the original solution was. That dev change was like trying to solve a clogged drain by turning off the water (hint: the drain's still clogged).

I do think Venture's analogy was awesome though (true too).

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Crysys · 09-20-2011 08:02 PM

Check out all the missions posted today in AE. Page after Page of new rezz-free fire farms.

Labrynth · 09-21-2011 06:30 AM

I posted this a few weeks back on the Brutes forum.

Like it or not, this change was inevitable. Whenever a PL method becomes this good, it gets nerfed. Its just the way of things and how it has been done since this game has been out.

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UberGuy · 09-21-2011 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virusman

Anyway it's nice to get some honesty from the devs for once. They don't want us to use AE for farming. Thanks for coming out and saying it!

Uhh... they said this in what I considered the equivalent of 48-point, bright red font, way back in issue 14.

I say this as someone who has no issues with people farming the thing ... how could anyone have missed what they've said before?

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