BS has parry which give a lot of extra defense to melee.
Mace and Axe have 3 EXCELLENT AoE powers, though all come late.
Mace does disorient with smashing, and Axe does knockdown with lethal.
Lethal is highly resisted (I'm looking at you Robots!), so I prefer Mace over all three.
Make a man a fire and keep him warm for the day, SET a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Incarnates: K'lir(Fire/Dark Corr):Hot-House Flower(Plant/Fire Dom):Kinrad X(Kin/Rad Def):Itsy-Bitsy Spider(Crab):Two Ton Tony(Mace/WP Broot):Teeny Weeny Widow(Fortunata/Widow) : Zeroth Law (Ice/Fire Tank)
Thanks! Um, I think I may be an idiot. I only see two AOE powers for Axe - Pendulum and Whirling Axe - what is the third?
Also it seems like all three sets have several - actually, too many - single target attacks. How do you pick the right mix?
Thanks again.
When you see yourself in a crowded room / do your fingers itch,are you pistol-whipped
Will you step in line or release the glitch / can you fall asleep with a panic switch
Technically Cleave is a cone too but its a small arc (10 ft I think) so I tend to treat it as single target attack and anyone else I hit is just a bonus.
Ah! Makes sense. TY. I have perfected the Sands of Mu line up technique so I can probably get AoE out of Cleave too.
When you see yourself in a crowded room / do your fingers itch,are you pistol-whipped
Will you step in line or release the glitch / can you fall asleep with a panic switch
Well, I don't have any experience with Axe, but I have a 50 of both BS and Mace. I'm not exactly a number cruncher or min-maxer to the extreme, but here is my current Mace/WP Brute build.
Long story short... I took all the powers! 
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Two Ton Tony2: Level 50 Natural Brute
Primary Power Set: War Mace
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Speed
Villain Profile:
------------
Level 1: Bash KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(5), ResDam-I(19), Numna-Heal/Rchg(25)
Level 2: Mind Over Body RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(7)
Level 4: Fast Healing Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(5), Mrcl-Rcvry+(48)
Level 6: Boxing Empty(A)
Level 8: Combat Jumping LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 10: Indomitable Will LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(42)
Level 12: Pulverize KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39)
Level 14: Tough RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(37)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(17), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(48), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(48)
Level 18: Jawbreaker KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 20: Quick Recovery P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21)
Level 22: Weave LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(23), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25)
Level 24: Clobber KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(40), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 26: Whirling Mace Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Erad-Acc/Rchg(27), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(29), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(29), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 28: Heightened Senses LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 30: Shatter Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(31), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(31), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 32: Crowd Control Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(33), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(33), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Build Up RechRdx-I(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit(46), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(46)
Level 38: Taunt Zinger-Dam%(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(40), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(46), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(50), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(50), Zinger-Taunt(50)
Level 41: Super Jump Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 44: Stealth LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Super Speed Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 49: Strength of Will S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Total Core Revamp
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health Numna-Heal(A), RgnTis-Regen+(43), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(45)
Level 2: Hurdle Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(3)
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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Make a man a fire and keep him warm for the day, SET a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Incarnates: K'lir(Fire/Dark Corr):Hot-House Flower(Plant/Fire Dom):Kinrad X(Kin/Rad Def):Itsy-Bitsy Spider(Crab):Two Ton Tony(Mace/WP Broot):Teeny Weeny Widow(Fortunata/Widow) : Zeroth Law (Ice/Fire Tank)
Quote:
My understanding from brutes is that Mace vs Axe, mace has a lot more guaranteed effects vs Axe's % effects. And a couple of key powers mace does more damage.|
Originally Posted by Kinrad
BS has parry which give a lot of extra defense to melee.
Mace and Axe have 3 EXCELLENT AoE powers, though all come late. Mace does disorient with smashing, and Axe does knockdown with lethal. Lethal is highly resisted (I'm looking at you Robots!), so I prefer Mace over all three. |
Is that true on Scrappers? Or am I confuzzeled again?
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Well. I don't know if they changed anything for scrappers, though I doubt it. But for the ATs which already have them, the differences between mace and axe are:
Both have 4 single target attacks. Axe's all do KD/KU, with 40%/50%/50%/70% chances. Three of mace's do stun, but two of those are ignorable (10% and 20% for mag 2). Clobber, however, is 100% mag 3. The last mace attack is 75% knockup. The damage on the first three attacks is the same across sets, but mace's clobber blows axe's swoop out of the water with significantly higher damage and a shorter animation time (longer recharge, but it's worth it). The animations on axe's 2nd and 3rd attacks are slightly faster than on the corresponding mace attacks, however.
Both sets have a PBAoE, narrow cone, and wide cone. Axe's PBAoE does slightly less damage than mace's for some reason (~90% as much, same end/rech), but does have a much more reliable secondary effect (50% KD vs 30% mag2 stun). Axe's cones both do about 20% more damage than their mace counterparts, however mace's recharge faster and have better areas/caps - axe's narrow cone is a 20deg 'headsplitter' cone while mace's is a 45deg 'shadow maul' cone, and mace's wide cone is 1 foot deeper than axe's and has a 10 target cap rather than 5. Both of mace's cones have guaranteed KD, as well, as opposed to axe's 80% and 50% chances for KD.
So, bottom line. Axe has more consistent secondary effects (all KD/KD instead of a mix of KD/KU/stun), and doesn't have any powers with really bad secondary effects (like the mace powers with 20-30% chance for mag 2 stun). However, the secondary effects on a few key mace powers are much more *reliable* than the corresponding axe powers, and mace probably has somewhat better AoE overall thanks to being able to reliably hit more targets. Mace probably has a bit better ST damage thanks to the awesomeness that is clobber, but axe has some really nice chain KD on single targets. Mace is also smashing, where axe is lethal - they're both often resisted, but it feels to me that smashing is resisted a bit less so than lethal. I am of the opinion that mace is a slightly better set, but I don't think the difference is huge.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
I made an Axe/Fire brute on a lark to see how it works with three Force Feedback: +Recharge procs in the AoEs. Mids reports something crazy like a 320% recharge bonus, but I somehow doubt it'll be that fabulous. Only at level 17 so far, so the madness hasn't started yet.
Quote:
Unless you're really focused on mez or knockdown for mitigation, Broadsword is the best choice of the three. You have three AOEs (one PBAOE, one cone, one line) and an attack that buffs your defense. The cone appears early, too. Every attack except Parry debuffs defense, so they can slot the Achilles Heel proc (you probably wouldn't want more than one in Hack) to reduce enemy resistance, as well.|
Originally Posted by Mashuguna
The three powersets seem very similar to me - are their glaring advantages / disadvantages besides the cosmetic?
Thanks |
That said, you can pair War Mace with Dark Armor's Oppressive Gloom to get stacking stuns or just enjoy a bit of KD with Battle Axe in order to reduce incoming damage. Nothing wrong with choosing either of those and you can be very effective. I just have a preference for Broadsword, given a choice between those three.
... that's not saying I'd take Broadsword over any of the available primaries, just that I'd take it given the choice of those three.
My choice would depend on my secondary.
If I were playing something like Dark Armor, Electric or Fire, I'd go with Broadsword, because Parry is just that good at adding defense to secondaries that lack it.
If I were playing something like SR, Invuln, or Shield (i.e. sets that don't need Parry's defense boost), I'd go with Axe or Mace. The specific choice would be up to character concept, but I'd lean toward Mace with all other things being equal.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
The Force Recharge proc doesn't stack. The proc does no longer have a suppression period so a 2nd proc'ing while the 1st buff is active refreshes the buff.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
I made an Axe/Fire brute on a lark to see how it works with three Force Feedback: +Recharge procs in the AoEs. Mids reports something crazy like a 320% recharge bonus, but I somehow doubt it'll be that fabulous. Only at level 17 so far, so the madness hasn't started yet.
|
With only a 10% chance to fire off I don't see it staying refreshed all that often. I'm lucky to see it up every other footstomp on my SS/FA brute even in packed mobs.
Global: @Kelig
Off all 3 I find WM to be the most fun.
Quote:
I see it nearly every time I use footstomp. The more mobs the better. 10% chance per each mobs actually makes it pretty reliable in large groups.|
Originally Posted by joebartender
The Force Recharge proc doesn't stack. The proc does no longer have a suppression period so a 2nd proc'ing while the 1st buff is active refreshes the buff.
With only a 10% chance to fire off I don't see it staying refreshed all that often. I'm lucky to see it up every other footstomp on my SS/FA brute even in packed mobs. |
I could see the added benefit of increasing the duration of the buff while fighting large groups.
As for mids reporting having a 320% recharge bonus, when you add the proc to a power mids "activates the power". It's a way to see what you temporary recharge rate would be. You have to deactivate the power like you would a toggle so the effect isn't adjusting your numbers while building your character.
And as said above mids is a good program, but not overly smart. You have to do some thinking for it, since the recharge effects don't stack you do need to deactivate them and only check one of them if you're looking for your temporary recharge rate.
Quote:
Thank you, that's really helpful! that not only explains the difference it gives me ideas for using both.|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Well. I don't know if they changed anything for scrappers, though I doubt it. But for the ATs which already have them, the differences between mace and axe are:
Both have 4 single target attacks. Axe's all do KD/KU, with 40%/50%/50%/70% chances. Three of mace's do stun, but two of those are ignorable (10% and 20% for mag 2). Clobber, however, is 100% mag 3. The last mace attack is 75% knockup. The damage on the first three attacks is the same across sets, but mace's clobber blows axe's swoop out of the water with significantly higher damage and a shorter animation time (longer recharge, but it's worth it). The animations on axe's 2nd and 3rd attacks are slightly faster than on the corresponding mace attacks, however. Both sets have a PBAoE, narrow cone, and wide cone. Axe's PBAoE does slightly less damage than mace's for some reason (~90% as much, same end/rech), but does have a much more reliable secondary effect (50% KD vs 30% mag2 stun). Axe's cones both do about 20% more damage than their mace counterparts, however mace's recharge faster and have better areas/caps - axe's narrow cone is a 20deg 'headsplitter' cone while mace's is a 45deg 'shadow maul' cone, and mace's wide cone is 1 foot deeper than axe's and has a 10 target cap rather than 5. Both of mace's cones have guaranteed KD, as well, as opposed to axe's 80% and 50% chances for KD. So, bottom line. Axe has more consistent secondary effects (all KD/KD instead of a mix of KD/KU/stun), and doesn't have any powers with really bad secondary effects (like the mace powers with 20-30% chance for mag 2 stun). However, the secondary effects on a few key mace powers are much more *reliable* than the corresponding axe powers, and mace probably has somewhat better AoE overall thanks to being able to reliably hit more targets. Mace probably has a bit better ST damage thanks to the awesomeness that is clobber, but axe has some really nice chain KD on single targets. Mace is also smashing, where axe is lethal - they're both often resisted, but it feels to me that smashing is resisted a bit less so than lethal. I am of the opinion that mace is a slightly better set, but I don't think the difference is huge. |
Also, @claws,
Quote:
|
My choice would depend on my secondary. If I were playing something like Dark Armor, Electric or Fire, I'd go with Broadsword, because Parry is just that good at adding defense to secondaries that lack it. If I were playing something like SR, Invuln, or Shield (i.e. sets that don't need Parry's defense boost), I'd go with Axe or Mace. The specific choice would be up to character concept, but I'd lean toward Mace with all other things being equal. |
I've been looking for a new axe or mace character and am not sure which way to go, but this is helpful.
Thinking Mace/Invuln, but it's hard to resist the strong and pretty voices in my head. which may end up being part of the character (WM/Invuln, who is convinced that his powers are mace/EA or mace/ea that thinks he's mace/invuln) and constantly surprised that enemies like family and warriors can't hurt him but the clocks can (or the other way /round). heh.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
I've taken all three to 50 on either a scrapper or a brute. Most of the differences have already been covered above, but one thing to keep in mind with WM v axe is that if your mobs are below your level or knockback prone, axe scatters them with knockback, but WM tosses them in the air with knockup.
BS is extremely satisfying, both in orange numbers and sound effects.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
It should be noted, that one of the best BS attack chains(if not the best ST chain): hack->disembowel->hack->head splitter contains a knockup, a knockdown, and a -def move(that hopefully has the -res proc)
Plus, broadsword has more weapon customization options than any other weapon except maybe dual blades, so that's a plus.
I used to think taking BS with a def set sucked, but since the really good attack builds don't use it anyways, it's not a big deal. You take it when leveling up, and respec out of it later in def builds.
The three powersets seem very similar to me - are their glaring advantages / disadvantages besides the cosmetic?
Thanks
When you see yourself in a crowded room / do your fingers itch,are you pistol-whipped
Will you step in line or release the glitch / can you fall asleep with a panic switch