the purple triangles do add 50 protection to most mez (this is on top of whatever base protection they have)
the purple triangles do not show up in the combat attributes if you use power analyzer or surveillance
and you have it right, basically just stack up enough mez to get past that threshold and it will permahold if you keep it up (its essentially the same thing as perma confusion through the purple triangles)
while it is possible to do with holds, its much harder to do than with confuse due to the purple patch shortening the duration on the mez slightly (so your 50 sec hold wouldnt be 50 sec vs an even con AV)
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Ah I didn't realize the duration of mez's on AV's was shorter... that would make the stacking a bit more precarious but thanks for confirming the mechanics generally work the way i thought they did |
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the purple triangles do add 50 protection to most mez (this is on top of whatever base protection they have)
the purple triangles do not show up in the combat attributes if you use power analyzer or surveillance and you have it right, basically just stack up enough mez to get past that threshold and it will permahold if you keep it up (its essentially the same thing as perma confusion through the purple triangles) while it is possible to do with holds, its much harder to do than with confuse due to the purple patch shortening the duration on the mez slightly (so your 50 sec hold wouldnt be 50 sec vs an even con AV) |
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
It's been done. There used to be some videos floating around of people soloing AVs on their Dominators by overpowering the purple triangles. Generally you need one of the faster animating holds, such as Mind/ or Fire/. /Stone helps too since you have an extra hold there along with Power Boost.
here is more info about the purple patch
edit: this is also stacked on top of the AVs base resists as well
edit2: the way i was thinking it worked was slightly off, but the wiki page still has the info about it
It's definitely doable. I've soloed quite a few AVs on my Mind Dominator this way.
What you may want to do is pick up a Power Analyzer and watch the Status Protection of the AV. Having one is not necessary, but it makes it easy to see the timing of the Purple Triangles and how much progress you're making by stacking your holds.
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Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
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The purple patch doesn't work this way; it's based only off actual level difference. Higher ranks of foes like AVs may well have various mez or debuff resistances, but not from the purple patch. You'll have to go to an actual +level AV before the purple patch kicks in. If you'd like to test this you could use a power analyzer, although AV debuff resistances might make it complicated to see.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
here is more info about the purple patch
for most even con AVs, they will con as +4 on you, which means that your mez will only be 48% as effective as on +0 AVs AVs on the STF which are lvl 54, register as +8 foes meaning your mez only lasts 5% of what it normally does if your soloing them this is important stuff to consider, if your on a team, its not too hard to stack a lot between 8 poeple edit: this is also stacked on top of the AVs base resists as well |
(Basically there's a difference between 'con level', which is based on both level and rank and determines the color of an enemy, and simple plain level - the purple patch uses regular level, not con level.)
Also, Kyriani, keep in mind that the double magnitude part of domination doesn't last the full duration - what dom does is activate a second mag 3 hold with a longer duration, so the hold is mag 6 for the first 2/3rds of the duration and mag 3 for the last third. This will complicate your calculations somewhat, best bet is to use city of data to find these numbers.
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ah, thx for clearing that up, ive never seen a clear explaination of how it worked, kind of always figured the purple patch worked off both con and actual lvl
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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
The purple patch doesn't work this way; it's based only off actual level difference. Higher ranks of foes like AVs may well have various mez or debuff resistances, but not from the purple patch. You'll have to go to an actual +level AV before the purple patch kicks in. If you'd like to test this you could use a power analyzer, although AV debuff resistances might make it complicated to see.
(Basically there's a difference between 'con level', which is based on both level and rank and determines the color of an enemy, and simple plain level - the purple patch uses regular level, not con level.) Also, Kyriani, keep in mind that the double magnitude part of domination doesn't last the full duration - what dom does is activate a second mag 3 hold with a longer duration, so the hold is mag 6 for the first 2/3rds of the duration and mag 3 for the last third. This will complicate your calculations somewhat, best bet is to use city of data to find these numbers. |
It's doable. I'd say your best bet is with mind and use telekinesis. It's a bit of an end hog but with cardiac and a end reduc in its inherent slot you should be good to go. Having the force of nature accolade power and its +800% recovery also helps. It gives you more recovery than Ageless does.
Now what ive been having trouble with is trying to hold AV's during incarnate trials. I flip on telekinesis and I'm not seeing "Domination" show up over the AV every other second like i should be. Can anyone verify if the power is suppressed or something during trials? Other AV's dont seem to be a problem. Granted there is the level difference. But than again my toon is +3 shifted on a trial.
Also out of curiosity, stone was mentioned for power boost. What are the exact benefits of that? Less or the same as having megalomaniac accolade?
It can be done but only with Mind/ or fire/, because animation times are not standardized across sets, which is dumb. Mind and fire are the only sets with single target holds that animate fast enough for it to be possible, and even then you need a ton of +recharge.
Using Power Boost or the accolade or telekinesis isn't recommended because those aren't up all the time. None of those produce a reliable source of +hold.
Also this is only possible on SOME AVs. There are no versions of Statesman or Recluse that can be held in this way because, as incarnates and the (former) "Big bosses" of the game, they get extra mezz protection. Trial AVs also get extra mezz protection because they're facing 16-24 of us instead of just 4-8. Same goes for GMs and hamidon, obviously.
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This is incarnate trial AVs?|
Originally Posted by PowerLeveler
Trial AVs also get extra mezz protection because they're facing 16-24 of us instead of just 4-8. Same goes for GMs and hamidon, obviously.
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No wonder I haven't been able to hold them even with the level shifts.
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
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Ayup. This comes down to a really questionable design decision with regards to mezzes. All of them, outside of slows, are binary. An NPC is either held, or not. Stunned, or not. Immobilized, or not, etc. This isn't really a problem against minions, lieuts and bosses, since any decent team will mow through those, and is kind of expected to mow through those. But AVs and GMs are supposed to be the big guns, so a fight where a single mezzer can shut them down entirely is a bigger design issue. With the current binary system, the only way to keep such a big gun from being locked town totally is to make it so they can't be locked down at all. Which is lame.
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Originally Posted by Freem
This is incarnate trial AVs?
No wonder I haven't been able to hold them even with the level shifts. |
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This is untrue, they show up under status protection(usually as "Resistance").|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the purple triangles do not show up in the combat attributes if you use power analyzer or surveillance
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AVs also have inherent boss level protection(mag 3), THAT doesn't show up in the attributes.
So in total, AVs generally have 53 points of protection to breakthrough.
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Originally Posted by Freem
This is incarnate trial AVs?
No wonder I haven't been able to hold them even with the level shifts. |
[Supervillain Resistance.Resistance]
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...that is some ******** right there.
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Originally Posted by Tylerst
The trial AVs get an inherent 10,000% mez resistance and mag 1000 mez protection |
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Amen. They also get 10000% recharge debuff resistance (at least Marauder does, haven't checked the others), which nullifies a big chunk of ice tankers' mitigation...
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Originally Posted by StormDevil
...that is some ******** right there.
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Maybe they need to make a trial with massive slows and -rech so that I can pull out my ice tank and make fun of those soft-capped toons who now flailing around madly, unable to move! |
Originally Posted by MTS
Amen. They also get 10000% recharge debuff resistance (at least Marauder does, haven't checked the others), which nullifies a big chunk of ice tankers' mitigation...
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I guess my dom will just forget about holding and pretend I'm a blaster. Blast those filthy cheater iAVs!
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
Playing Gods (51106) - Heroic Lvl 5-20
What Rough Beast (255143) - Villainous Lvl 40-50
I'm tempted to do a BAF with mostly doms and controllers and see if we can hold an AV.
Assuming you gathered a league of 24 perma-doms:
Standard Single target hold- 24 x mag 6 = 144
Standard AoE hold = another 144
Assuming they all had secondarys with a hold, say seismic smash = another 144
total: 432, not even halfway to 1000
Given the 10,000% mez resistance you won't have stacking ability either.
Suffice to say, you won't be holding trial AVs
But you can crap on their to hit value and make them miss a lot.
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
Do they have the sleep vulnerability of normal AVs?
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I've been reading up on the "purple triangles of doom" and I was curious... could a lone Dominator with permadom hold an AV through it's purple triangles? According to the Wiki purple triangles only adds in 50 extra mag of protection and (again according to the wiki) Domination doubles the mag of your controls. So my single target hold should be mag 6 if I understand that correctly.
Then wouldn't it stand to reason that stacking my ST Hold 10 times should hold an AV regardless of its protection? With dom active my single target holds last around 50 seconds and it takes me roughly 23 seconds to stack it 10 times (60 mag). Or am I completely misunderstanding how the AV protection works >.>
If anyone with insight would please feel free to educate me so I can understand how it actually works in game I'd be grateful.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30