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I'd note that 90% of the cases people would preform PQ's too. (although well, 90% cases they wouldn't do them because the rewards were crap...) and if that's the criteria, COH already has PQ's (although people don't use them as such)

Yeah - the main thing most people have been saying about a solo path is that it needs to be slower than the normal Trial path.

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The rewards for PQs don't have to be crap. Again: Mothership Raid, which is done by numerous people.

The pratorian ones gave crap rewards by choice. (though I personally don't find something meant for a lvl 1-20 area to be crap rewards for where it's located. /shrug).

Edit: But my main point was that endgame does not have to mean raid. and multiple player does not have to mean raid.

Level cap raises, new abilities/doodads/sparklies, and additional levels of high-level mission-based content and zones *plus* raids/trials for those who want to run those types of things with more doodads/sparklies tied to that system.

That's how the game with the night elves does it and it works for the most part. Everybody gets something new to do with their high-level toons. Nice, non-repetitive content with new places to go, new things to see, new skills to learn, new gear to acquire, new achievements to earn, etc. As it is an explicitly raid-centric endgame and has been since day one, non-raiders will eventually end up twiddling their thumbs when they run out of things to do. Still, the amount of progression non-raiders can make on their own is enough to prepare them for the next expansion/level cap raising.

Paragon did all of the "new" stuff above with Going Rogue. They just chose to tack most of the Praetoria experience on to the beginning of the game instead of the end.

No one CREDIBLE ever said otherwise.

Soooo, this was a pointless argument

Gotcha. Let's move on.

So glad

And I didn't mean to sound that way, as I know this. Honestly, it was more an effort to get a reply in before 10 posts were written and my response became irrelevant, haha. I'm just glad to read that a 1-8 player option is in the pipeline.

So... VIP server to be called Exalted eh? I can dig it, though I still think "Freem" would have been fun.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Exalted is an interesting choice. Kinda a message to the VIPs about how important subscribers still are in the new Freedom game?

Red Sonja was hot.

Discuss ...

Not really, no. Not until we get into "Need 8 or more people."

Congrats. You have JUST hit on why people have been asking for a solo/small team path! And part of why this game is considered casual friendly!
And once the team is formed, the content is steamrolled through.
What if it takes me 3 minutes to set up a team, and, say, 20 minutes to finish an arc, that soloing takes an hour? You do know not all teams need to be a team of 8, right? And that it doesn't need to be a team of 8 to trivialize content?

And no, the time taken to make the team does NOT mean the solo task is easier. It means you *might get started sooner.* There's a difference. Take a /Psy defender into Striga. Fight that "warehouse full of Mek Men" mission from Steph. Tell me (and my emp/psy defender) just how much "easier" that task is solo.

It might - *might* - take longer to set up a team (again, the team does NOT need to be 8 people, team does not mean "Group of 8.") Once that team is inside, the content is EASIER barring utter facepalming incompetence.

Your argument has *just* a few flaws.

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Again. Failure has no consequence in this game except lost time. Hence time is the only metric that matters. If it goes faster it's easier. And soloing is generally faster than teaming once you count the overhead require to actually form a team.

I would have preferred "Paragon" myself

I was talking about the PQ originator, not COH.

And as mentioned, Trials are in practice Public Quests, just difficult ones. And that difficulty means they tend to be pre-formed.

True, but it usually takes me two to five minutes to form a team.

err, that's not a lot of time.

Trials are not public quests. It's public when just about anyone can hop on. Until recently that wasn't the case. And it STILL isn't the case if you don't use the LFG/TUT system. I can't just walk into the public areas that Keyes and BAF actually exists in, in Praetoria and be offered the option to join a trial or have the league interface appear in my window.

Also when I think of public I think of the mothership raid, not something that requires an instance.

The raids are NOT public quests.

Technically speaking the ORIGINAL HAMIDON could be considered a public quest.

OK, could you answer a question, then: If I told you I prefer to play by myself specifically so that I could play slower without other people rushing me, how would you class this? Easier or harder?

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I know you're not speaking to me at all, but I agree.

It's sad what a dogpile a thread like this can turn into. Welcome back from PAX, Posi. Seeya posting again some time next year...

Yeah, you can just jump into the trials. That's my point.

They're just so difficult that most people won't let you do that (thanks to a few fairly annoying issues with the queue)

Depends on what you're doing. It usually takes 10-15 mins to get a TF going (longer if it's one of the obscure ones) and I've spent hours forming teams occasionally.

I never found the seasonal events to be much fun. Sure I did them but only for the shiny new badges. Once I got 'em, meh...don't really do them anymore.


Now if they increased their rewards with something that might actually make them worth the time....

You can't if the trail is at MAX number of folks, which by the way is how folks lockout people.

You can also now lock the trials so no one else can join.

Neither of those instances apply to PUBLIC QUESTS like the mothership raid.

Again, they are NOT public quests.

And to my main point massively multiplayer does not have to mean raids.

If you want to get 8 man teams sure. I can form a 4-5 man in two to five minutes for any activity in game.

You don't need 8 players for tfs.

I've beaten some of the harder ones with 4-6.

Riiight.

And given the same arc, who's going to actually FINISH faster and have greater rewards?

Typically the team, in my experience. Unless by "Solo" you mean "Scrapper at x1/+0."

Also,

/this.

Wanting to stop and go through content (not to mention having to stop because YOU are doing all the work/need to rest/etc and not having a "rest of the team" to keep going on to finish the mission) is going to affect that speed.

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