"Trick Shot"; Trick Arrow reskin
By
Bubbawheat,
Posted on: 2011-08-19 16:46 in Suggestions and Ideas
Really? When I use my Dual Pistols I don't push one hand out straight in front of me and then pull my other hand from a set spot to a point near my jawbone.
I don't do that with a Rifle either.
We already have Assault Rifle, we already have Dual Pistols, we'll Soon™ have the availabilty to purchase Beam Rifle. Why would we need to skin a powerset dealing with a bow into a powerset dealing with firearms when we have powersets dealing with those already? Especially when the animations are actually nothing alike.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
.. So that you can use them with powersets other than archery without having constant re-draw animations.
And of course the animations are different. Thats why I mentioned either alternate animations, or different sets that function identically. Is three sentences a tl;dr?
"Why do these Lost keep trying to hold me? Don't they know I don't swing that way?"
Yes, but would you rather have the devs spend all that time on new animations to give us the same powerset we already have? Or would you rather have them spend the animation time to give us a brand new powerset? Personally, as much as I love Trick Arrow, I would rather see a new powerset.
i would love to have a debuff set that uses a gun so then rifle toons can have the same luxury that ninja or archery toons get with TA (no redraw)
i doubt this would be hard to do since they have a lot of similar powers in the game already, such as the glue grenades (PPD), sonic grenades (longbow), emp grenades (longbow), flashbang grenades (PPD, vanguard), wide area web nade (soldier VEATs, arachnos)
already got 5 powers to work with there, would just need to make 4 more powers which could fit in with the other TA powers or create new ones based on other existing powers such as stun grenade, tear gas, ect
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Wow. You interpreted the OP exactly backward. Try envisioning the TA power effects being applied by your pistols or assault rifle, with those existing animations. Like the existing Trick Arrow set interlocks with Archery.
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Really? When I use my Dual Pistols I don't push one hand out straight in front of me and then pull my other hand from a set spot to a point near my jawbone.
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Frankly? Yes. I would rather the new animations preferable to a whole new set, especially when you like the set as is but would like leeway in the visuals. Also, if it were a new set? You'd have to pay for it...and reroll the character. And if they just made a new 'Trick Shot' set, it'll probably have some gimmick to make it better than Trick Arrow in some way.|
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Yes, but would you rather have the devs spend all that time on new animations to give us the same powerset we already have? Or would you rather have them spend the animation time to give us a brand new powerset? Personally, as much as I love Trick Arrow, I would rather see a new powerset.
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Why make a new set when you have the set needed right infront of you? It's more a waste to reimagine it as a new set than just add functionality to available sets because then you just have more sets to balance.
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I guess it might have been tl;dr for you. Let's look at what you wrote.|
Originally Posted by DulothS
.. So that you can use them with powersets other than archery without having constant re-draw animations.
And of course the animations are different. Thats why I mentioned either alternate animations, or different sets that function identically. Is three sentences a tl;dr? |
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Originally Posted by DulothS
Either three separate, functionally identical but visibly different powersets, or three different animations for the existing one. Existing animations can be slightly tweaked and/or duplicated for the bulk of these.
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Yes, but would you rather have the devs spend all that time on new animations to give us the same powerset we already have? Or would you rather have them spend the animation time to give us a brand new powerset? Personally, as much as I love Trick Arrow, I would rather see a new powerset.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Wow. You interpreted the OP exactly backward. Try envisioning the TA power effects being applied by your pistols or assault rifle, with those existing animations. Like the existing Trick Arrow set interlocks with Archery.
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Originally Posted by DulothS
The idea is quite simple; take the existing Trick Shot powerset, and give it optional Rifle, Beam Rifle, or Pistol using animations. Either three separate, functionally identical but visibly different powersets, or three different animations for the existing one. Existing animations can be slightly tweaked and/or duplicated for the bulk of these.
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If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
I would definitely go for this if resources allowed it. I don't know how much work it would be (and neither does anyone else).
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I don't think you understood what he is saying. He is saying to re-use animations from gun sets as the base. You seemed to read that as him saying they could just stick a gun in the character's hand and use the archery pose, which is not what I assume he meant.
| He is talking about different animations or "slightly tweaking" or "duplicated" animations, which, as I've pointed out, won't work. It would require entirely new animations, just as Bubbawheat mentioned. |
/unsigned
If you want to play a gun set, play a gun set.
Trick Arrow and Archery are meant to be archery sets.
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I dunno what original post you read, but it's what's said in the one I'm looking at: "take the existing Trick Shot powerset, and give it optional Rifle, Beam Rifle, or Pistol using animations." Apart from omitting the hyphens (technically it should be "Rifle-, Beam Rifle-, or Pistol-using animations"), it's perfectly straightforward. The reference to "existing animations can be slightly tweaked" further down is to the existing rifle and/or pistol animations, not the ones that are already part of Trick Arrow.
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Except that isn't what was said.
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It's interesting that you're willing to think far enough outside the box to want a whip set for ATs other than Mastermind, but not to go so far as to entertain the possibility of the various specialized ammo types - which is really all they are - from Trick Arrow being available to non-archers. Particularly since both are entirely sensible notions, and the latter requires quite a bit less cooking.
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Originally Posted by Feycat
/unsigned
If you want to play a gun set, play a gun set. |
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MMs don't have a whip set. They have a Demon Summoning set, with 3 whip attacks. Even having a petless demon MM, I know that much. That's why I was asking them to create a whole whip powerset.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
It's interesting that you're willing to think far enough outside the box to want a whip set for ATs other than Mastermind, but not to go so far as to entertain the possibility of the various specialized ammo types - which is really all they are - from Trick Arrow being available to non-archers. Particularly since both are entirely sensible notions, and the latter requires quite a bit less cooking.
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Also, there's a difference between asking for power proliferation (if I WAS asking for an "MM whip set" to be ported to other ATs) without thinking it's ok to re-animate Trick Arrow so you can use all the powers while holding guns. We HAVE several gun sets. We have ONE archery set. If you want to use guns, use those.
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Why wouldn't it be? Is there some moral stricture involved?|
Originally Posted by Feycat
without thinking it's ok to re-animate Trick Arrow so you can use all the powers while holding guns.
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| . We HAVE several gun sets. We have ONE archery set. If you want to use guns, use those. |
When people attack stuff like it this it really makes my shoulders sag.
I think we need to leave the decisions about what is worth development time to the developers. I think it's fine to say whether you'd be personally interested in the feature, but when it turns into a paraphrased version of "this is a bad idea and should never be allowed to happen," to me it's just trolling. There is a big difference between "I'm not interested" and "this should never happen" and IMO it's a shame more Suggestions forum posters don't observe that distinction.
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Then sit down, calm yourself, and *DISCUSS*!|
Originally Posted by Feycat
Also, there's a difference between asking for power proliferation (if I WAS asking for an "MM whip set" to be ported to other ATs) without thinking it's ok to re-animate Trick Arrow so you can use all the powers while holding guns. We HAVE several gun sets. We have ONE archery set. If you want to use guns, use those. |
I would love alternate themes for sets so that they can fulfill a *theme* and Trick Arrow fulfills a good offensive gadget theme and could easily fit working with other devices to set off those offensive gadgets, be they from a gun, a wrist/shoulder mount or a bow.
Take it a step further and introduce some archery animations for the gun sets you think exists (lol transform LRM into teleport arrow nuke. I wouldn't use it but it sounds fun). Not that every set can use every type of animation, but hey, there's room for some interesting possibilities.
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And the old set is already balanced in-game, so the biggest hurdle seems to be done already.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Frankly? Yes. I would rather the new animations preferable to a whole new set, especially when you like the set as is but would like leeway in the visuals. Also, if it were a new set? You'd have to pay for it...and reroll the character. And if they just made a new 'Trick Shot' set, it'll probably have some gimmick to make it better than Trick Arrow in some way.
Why make a new set when you have the set needed right infront of you? It's more a waste to reimagine it as a new set than just add functionality to available sets because then you just have more sets to balance. |
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
I dunno what original post you read, but it's what's said in the one I'm looking at: "take the existing Trick Shot powerset, and give it optional Rifle, Beam Rifle, or Pistol using animations." Apart from omitting the hyphens (technically it should be "Rifle-, Beam Rifle-, or Pistol-using animations"), it's perfectly straightforward. The reference to "existing animations can be slightly tweaked" further down is to the existing rifle and/or pistol animations, not the ones that are already part of Trick Arrow.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Why wouldn't it be? Is there some moral stricture involved?
I have yet to find the gun-based set that has anything resembling Glue Arrow or Oil Slick Arrow. |
It would be bad enough with AR or BR, but DP has two emanation points. And that's only one power in the set. Now, you have to generate new animations with different emanation points for three sets. Oh, and the new FX to go with them as well.
That's a lot of work to correct, not a slight tweak.
Something else to think about is reload. You are firing a bullet at the ground that explodes with poison or glue or gas or whatever. And you can do all of this without having to reload to use a different ammo? To change the secondary effect in DP you have to swap ammo, but you usually aren't doing that on every attack, which is what would be required for TA's powers.
Sure, AR has the multi-purpose gun that fires bean bags, bullets, buckshot, grenades and what-have-you, but there are limitations on what can be deemed believable with handguns versus rifles.
EDIT: Besides, who in their right mind fires a gun at the ground? Guns are for firing at people, animals, or targets.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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... have you not noticed the DP powers where you only fire one of your guns? There are several.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Stop and think about that for a minute. I'm holding two pistols in my hands and suddenly arrows with a Net on it flies out of the barrels? Yet when it hits it only has one Net?
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Also, obviously it wouldn't be an arrow. It'd be a bullet - i.e., effectively invisible - that spawns a net on impact. Which is no further out there than super-strength characters coming up with a piece of pavement inside an alien spaceship.
The projectile doesn't require an animation at all, besides perhaps the usual DP "vapor trail"; what's important is the application of the net effect (as it were) at the end. Which already has an animation.It's so weird to encounter people unwilling to use their imaginations a little in a superhero game. Really quite baffling.
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oil slick arrow, you got me to find a duplicate|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
I have yet to find the gun-based set that has anything resembling Glue Arrow or Oil Slick Arrow. |
however mid lvl PPD (specifically the PPD equalizers) use a glue grenade that functions exactly as glue arrow
in my previous post i described 5 similar powers to trick arrow that exist in the form of grenades fired from guns
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Well, we're kind of talking about player-character-accessible powers here, see...
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
oil slick arrow, you got me to find a duplicate
however mid lvl PPD (specifically the PPD equalizers) use a glue grenade that functions exactly as glue arrow |
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i dont think its considered a signature power so could be reused for the players at some point for a trick shot set like the OP was describing, it wouldnt be identical to trick arrow, but function as a secondary to work with gun-powersets|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Well, we're kind of talking about player-character-accessible powers here, see...
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i personally would love to see a debuff set that does NOT cause redraw when used with a gun based primary
I've had a similar discussion with friends in game that TA's effects would be great with different animation/projectile. I didn't have the OP's idea in mind, which sounds interesting, but was thinking instead of arrows if they were all grenades/devices that could be thrown/tossed, in the event you didn't want an arrow themed character.
In the event there was a reskin, various alternates would be neat.
Hmm. Just making every animation into 'throw grenade'?
"Why do these Lost keep trying to hold me? Don't they know I don't swing that way?"
I can't see the problem with it, in fact I think its a great idea.
No need for a complete new powerset (which is always great, if), just giving TA animations matching with BR, DP and AR spawns a lot of new concepts as well as for defenders, corruptor and even MMs (Bow? I'm shooting trick bullets from my multi-function-swiss-pocketgun! 
)
Conceptwise it would offer an alternative to traps for natural origin characters.
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Which leaves only 4 for an animation set matching the AR.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
oil slick arrow, you got me to find a duplicate
however mid lvl PPD (specifically the PPD equalizers) use a glue grenade that functions exactly as glue arrow in my previous post i described 5 similar powers to trick arrow that exist in the form of grenades fired from guns |
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
... have you not noticed the DP powers where you only fire one of your guns? There are several.
Also, obviously it wouldn't be an arrow. It'd be a bullet - i.e., effectively invisible - that spawns a net on impact. Which is no further out there than super-strength characters coming up with a piece of pavement inside an alien spaceship. The projectile doesn't require an animation at all, besides perhaps the usual DP "vapor trail"; what's important is the application of the net effect (as it were) at the end. Which already has an animation.It's so weird to encounter people unwilling to use their imaginations a little in a superhero game. Really quite baffling. |
Maybe entangling arrow, but web grenade does the same and sticky stuff immobilizing is pretty believeable coming from a barrel.
Somehow the concept with DP reminds me of the gun from "xXx".^^
And shooting trick bullets kinda does match the concept DP already has.
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Originally Posted by DulothS
Hmm. Just making every animation into 'throw grenade'?
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Anyway I second that Idea, even if I use the bow rather than the firearm sets.(and maybe TA gets a little dev-love too with this
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The idea is quite simple; take the existing Trick Shot powerset, and give it optional Rifle, Beam Rifle, or Pistol using animations. Either three separate, functionally identical but visibly different powersets, or three different animations for the existing one. Existing animations can be slightly tweaked and/or duplicated for the bulk of these.
"Why do these Lost keep trying to hold me? Don't they know I don't swing that way?"