How do the devs feel about farming?

Both of these are examples of farming. Running the same content over and over due to superior rewards.

Which is exactly my point. The Devs are not opposed to farming on principle, they are opposed to anything that makes you play for far less time than you would otherwise.

Um.

Farming does not necessarily equal power leveling. Power leveling does not necessarily equal farming. You can do both, you can do one or you can do the other. They are different things.

Farming is doing the same (or related) thing(s) over and over again in order to efficiently attain the rewards you seek. It can also, and sometimes is, called grinding. You farm the incarnate trials, you grind the incarnate trials, you cannot power-level with the incarnate trials.

Or are you going to tell me that my level-fifty tankers (ice/fire, and invuln/fire) are power-leveling people when they run farm maps solo? ... in which case, who am I power-leveling? They can't be power-leveling themselves, seeing how they are already level 50 ... there is no one else teamed with them ... so unless a random low-level is earning experience merely by existing while I'm running those maps, because I am running those maps, I don't believe I'm power-leveling anyone.

Am I farming? Yes. I am grinding my way to the ticket cap for that map as rapidly as possible for my characters, repeatedly, doing the same content again and again and again in order to efficiently attain the rewards that I desire. I earn some influence and some prestige along the way, but all I really want is the tickets. (I roll my own recipes when possible to do so, and use them for rare salvage, and so on and so forth. I first offer the stuff I don't want to my friends, then I sell whatever remains to the market.)

Am I causing a problem for others doing this? Heh. Not that I can see. Oh, I'm driving some of the market prices down (temporarily) (maybe) because I just want the stuff to sell and don't really care what I get for it. That may cause a problem, I guess, but I don't think most people have much of a problem with getting a recipe or salvage they wanted for cheap ...

But, really. Farming and power-leveling are two different things and should be addressed separately. I can see some problems with power-leveling, but that is more of a problem with the players and less of a problem with the game.

For some players, COH being an easy game, being power-leveled on their first character isn't a problem. They ask questions, they read the wiki, they skim the forums, etc. They know what they are doing even if they've never done it before.

For others ... not so much. It is adorable when you run into a fresh 50 who has about as much understanding of and knowledge about the game as a first-time player who ate floor for their entire time playing while someone else did the work. A number of people get upset at this. *shrugs* Take the time to help them out, treat them as you would any other newbie (be nice!) and they'll turn into a functional player. Mock them, insult them and such? All you are doing is ensuring that they don't have fun playing and potentially quit the game if they can't find the help they need.

If you care, that is. If you don't, well ...

*rambles*

I'm in total agreement with this. Even if a regular mission uses one of the old farming maps, I literally start to doze before I've worked through half a dozen spawns groups.

You are aware that the double xp on live right now completely contradicts that statement right?
Also, double xp is probably the biggest support to farming the Devs could offer. I think that pretty much says it all.

How does farming make people play less?

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

It doesn't really contradict the general statement: double-xp weekend is a "loss leader," like a grocery store that sells eggs for a dime apiece one weekend a year.

To keep customers happy and engaged, and give them something to be excited about and potentially return to the game for, the devs will occasionally have "sales" on XP.

It's just Marketing 101.

The same applies to Patrol XP -- people who play their characters incessantly will use almost no Patrol XP and benefit almost not at all from it, but people who play at a more leisurely pace will level 1.5 times faster. But it doesn't matter because they're not zipping through levels, they're being rewarded for patience, or given a helping hand for not having as much time as others.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

I don't think they were staying that long anyway since they never took the time to get invested in the game in the first place.

Well, only four years here but I more or less stopped relying on regular content to level new characters after year one. I'm only referring to the paper and story arc missions so it does not include TFs. Heck, with the way most TFs are run these days, we may as well just face reality and call them farming runs anyways. While some people may think farming the same content over and over is boring, I on the other hand believe that it is no more boring than normal content. Essentially, my choices are between "content that nets me faster progress" or "content that nets me slower progress". The choice is obvious.

Lastly, do take note that I'm a content-neutral player and the primary satisfaction I get out of this game is the sheer variety of alts it offers as well as the progress these characters are making, culminating in a "finished" build, so to speak. This is what separates CoH from many other MMOs and this is why I believe that a lot of people stick around, despite the fact that they choose to PL/farm most of the time.

Incomparably hillarious meme bro.

Still waiting on someone to tell me how farming makes people play less.

Does it make people play less overall? That I don't know (and honestly I doubt). However, it can make certain people end up playing less and quitting. This tends to happen when people who dislike farming become convinced that farming is "required". They then start farming but because they dislike that style of play end up burning out and quitting. So not real "farming makes people play less" but more "a prevailing attitude that farming is required tends to drive away people who don't like to farm".

Pretty much this.

They don't like it, various devs have said as much over the years. They have made changes to heavily farmed missions or enemy groups when the farming of hem got out of hand. (several missions had timers added, and a couple enemy groups had their rewards reduced).

But, the devs also know they will never completely eliminate it, so they basically leave it alone until they notice an extreme trend toward farming certain things (AE exploits being a prime example). They haven't changed any missions or enemies outside of AE in quite a while (that I know of at least), so they seem pretty resigned to the fact that they won't completely get rid of it.

They also seem to have somewhat embraced people's tendency to farm things for rewards. The way the trials are set up illustrates that much. But I think it's more of a case of "We know they're going to do it anyway, so let's design it that way from the start with the rewards set at the pace WE want them at."

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Good times, good times. I'm still playing a couple of my original Winter Lord Babies.

| dave | onion | @davejb |

And conversely for driving up the prices of purples and other really rare items.

Farmers are neither our glorious saviors nor our evil demons.