TBH, while these numbers are interesting and I salute all the long-suffering PB players out there for their well-deserved buff, I don't think this is going to stop me from deleting my 43 PB who's been sitting unloved and condemned for the last two years. perma-Light will be nice like a tourniquet on a spouting artery is nice but I don't see how it addresses the fundamental lack of a team role for Peacebringers.
The brightsquid is still hampered by the lack of a full melee or full ranged attack chain and an intrusive amount of knockback that forces them to chase their bouncing targets around. And while perma-Light is lovely, it seems a poor patch job to expect players to wait until the middle 40s and/or drop a billion on five LotGs to achieve reasonable melee survivability.
Sorry, not trying to troll or rain on anyone's seafood parade. It's just how I'm interpreting this. Correct me if I'm missing something - please. On the other hand, if they make major changes to my glorious purple Warsquid o' Doom, I'm going to set fire to my own head. Devs - don't make me!
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If you build enough recharge for perma light form you should have no problems maintaining a fluent ranged attack chain in Nova form.| The brightsquid is still hampered by the lack of a full melee or full ranged attack chain |
I think we all agree that these buffs are not enough to bridge the gap, but they are definitely a step in the right direction.
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Thank you bro, nice to see you around still.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
! Welcome back, Darth!
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Here:|
Originally Posted by Benchpresser
Since I don't know Kheld build, how much is that?
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Originally Posted by The MFing Warshade
Eclipse recharges in 300 seconds and to reduce the recharge to the 90 seconds it is active, it needs 234% total recharge. I know that looks like a lot, but you get 95% from enhancements, so now you only need 139% in bonuses. "But wait!" you say, "what about Hasten?" Well, that would be 70% if it were active all the time. Unfortunately, it's not, so you can't count on it. The neat thing, at least, is that as we add recharge bonuses, Hasten becomes more potent as well. Long story short, you need at least 85% in global bonuses for Eclipse to be sufficiently "permanent." Of course, more is generally better, as it provides you with overlap and protection from the occasional debuffs. You will get to a point of diminished returns eventually.
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Although I'll take any improvements (if you want to call it that) the devs are willing to provide, I still don't know why shield toggle dropping when switching forms (both PB and WS) was not addressed... I like playing in all forms and to have to toggle on 6 shields (3 main shields, weave, combat jumping, manuevers) every time I switch back to human form just doesn't seem efficient. Or at least let the main shields from dropping while in combat. I don't know, am I the only one that feels this way?
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Wait, people use shields on tri-formers? |
Originally Posted by SuperT
Although I'll take any improvements (if you want to call it that) the devs are willing to provide, I still don't know why shield toggle dropping when switching forms (both PB and WS) was not addressed... I like playing in all forms and to have to toggle on 6 shields (3 main shields, weave, combat jumping, manuevers) every time I switch back to human form just doesn't seem efficient. Or at least let the main shields from dropping while in combat. I don't know, am I the only one that feels this way?
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Wait, people use shields on tri-formers?
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Yeah... Toggle suppression would be nice, but until that happens there's no reason to run toggles on a tri form Kheldian.
I just use binds that toggle my of my human stuff on.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Lets imagine 3 Kheldians go into RV, they had to defeat Mako and Ghost Widow without getting defeated, which form could they all use most safely?|
Originally Posted by Rainbow Avenger
The brightsquid is still hampered by the lack of a full melee or full ranged attack chain and an intrusive amount of knockback that forces them to chase their bouncing targets around. And while perma-Light is lovely, it seems a poor patch job to expect players to wait until the middle 40s and/or drop a billion on five LotGs to achieve reasonable melee survivability.
Sorry, not trying to troll or rain on anyone's seafood parade. It's just how I'm interpreting this. Correct me if I'm missing something - please. On the other hand, if they make major changes to my glorious purple Warsquid o' Doom, I'm going to set fire to my own head. Devs - don't make me! |
If they had to do Mako, Ghost Widow and Scirroco then I'll expect that to be a bit too much to expect no defeats.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I do on my Quad-former Peacebringer. But then I play as less of a form shifter in actual gameplay than most Tri-formers (I guess). Then again, I also build explicitly for Exemplar Performance ... which means I don't assume I always have access to Light Form and Dwarf Form in all circumstances.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Wait, people use shields on tri-formers?
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It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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They are invaluable on my warshade when stuck against a single target.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Wait, people use shields on tri-formers?
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The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
They are invaluable on my warshade when stuck against a single target.
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Demonic Aura+Liberal use of Dwarf for me.
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I can't understand why you would want to be in human form (while on a tri-forming WS) for any length of time against a hard target. It just doesn't have enough ST damage as the dwarf could put out, and even assuming you took Essence Drain...the dwarf has better survivability.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
They are invaluable on my warshade when stuck against a single target.
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Human can do a good bit more single target damage than dwarf if built right. I can also run weave, combat jumping, and maneuvers to make it more survivable than dwarf, though that's not what I was concerned with.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
I can't understand why you would want to be in human form (while on a tri-forming WS) for any length of time against a hard target. It just doesn't have enough ST damage as the dwarf could put out, and even assuming you took Essence Drain...the dwarf has better survivability.
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On a tri-form? *shrug* If you say so.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
Human can do a good bit more single target damage than dwarf if built right. I can also run weave, combat jumping, and maneuvers to make it more survivable than dwarf, though that's not what I was concerned with.
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It's a bit more than a 30 dps difference in favor of human form when both are totally maxed out.
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I agree.|
Originally Posted by Rainbow Avenger
TBH, while these numbers are interesting and I salute all the long-suffering PB players out there for their well-deserved buff, I don't think this is going to stop me from deleting my 43 PB who's been sitting unloved and condemned for the last two years. perma-Light will be nice like a tourniquet on a spouting artery is nice but I don't see how it addresses the fundamental lack of a team role for Peacebringers.
The brightsquid is still hampered by the lack of a full melee or full ranged attack chain and an intrusive amount of knockback that forces them to chase their bouncing targets around. And while perma-Light is lovely, it seems a poor patch job to expect players to wait until the middle 40s and/or drop a billion on five LotGs to achieve reasonable melee survivability. Sorry, not trying to troll or rain on anyone's seafood parade. It's just how I'm interpreting this. Correct me if I'm missing something - please. On the other hand, if they make major changes to my glorious purple Warsquid o' Doom, I'm going to set fire to my own head. Devs - don't make me! |
Now don't get me wrong, there are alot of great things coming with Freedom (the phasing technology sounds awesome!), but this little tidbit I read with no small amount of dread. Sure, it's nice to have a buff, but I'm beginning to fear this is it. It kinda reminds me of the token buff /EA had a few years back, which evidently was not enough since /EA is getting rebuffed in i21.
For me, the main issues weren't addressed - the forms still require way too many slots, they still lack a full attack chain without significant IO +recharge, the toggles still drop when you switch forms and human form still lacks mez protection until level 38, and even then it requires a significant influence investment to what will remain a subpar character.
I'm sure alot of ppl can easily find a way around these problems, but I can't, and overall, IMHO, a Peacebringer is still not worth playing over a VEAT/WS/[insert any other AT in the game] unless I'm doing it for roleplaying reasons.
P.S. I love the Kheldian backstory
A "buff" to Peacebringers could also be something as simple as expanding their background in those future story arcs the devs are planning to make.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
On a tri-form? *shrug* If you say so.
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What would this attack chain be, and what would the minimum amount of slots be per power? Also, I'm assuming it uses Orbiting Death, so no Gravimetric Snare? I just recently devoted some slots (two endoplasm's and a Gravitational Anchor: Immobilize) for locking down AV's.
Also, I find that I like to use my Dwarf Mire even against single targets for the to-hit/damage bonus. How would you manage to do that if you run toggles?
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
It's a bit more than a 30 dps difference in favor of human form when both are totally maxed out.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
What would this attack chain be, and what would the minimum amount of slots be per power? Also, I'm assuming it uses Orbiting Death, so no Gravimetric Snare? I just recently devoted some slots (two endoplasm's and a Gravitational Anchor: Immobilize) for locking down AV's.
Also, I find that I like to use my Dwarf Mire even against single targets for the to-hit/damage bonus. How would you manage to do that if you run toggles? |
A large part of it is that reactive seriously boosts orbiting death. The chain I like is Gwell>sblast>edrain>sblast. There's a minorly better chain I can't remember that doesn't use edrain, but i find edrain necessary when I can't use stygian circle. Minimum slotting is different per build, but hecatomb is good for Gwell, kinetic combat + golgi for edrain, and apocalypse for sblast. My dwarf attacks have kinetic combats for the set bonuses, which works well enough; the dwarf centric build I used for its damage numbers has hecatomb and armageddon. Popping into dwarf with the human one will hurt you because of needing to retoggle orbiting death and defenses.
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So I take it you have Armageddon in Human Mire? When do you actually use dwarf form, just for stacking Mires in crowds? I like putting Apocalypse in Nova Bolt... Do you sub it for Decimation?
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No, actually, I left it in Dwarf mire. The reason is one of the mires must get armageddon and one of them must get obliteration for my build, and, considering the frequency Dwarf mire is used while in that form, I would rather have some more endredux in it. Now that you mention it, though, I spend so little time in Dwarf it might be time to switch that over. Dwarf has lost nearly all of its use for me.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
So I take it you have Armageddon in Human Mire? When do you actually use dwarf form, just for stacking Mires in crowds? I like putting Apocalypse in Nova Bolt... Do you sub it for Decimation?
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I might use Dwarf mire for stacking in crowds as you say, or if I really need to taunt, or if I'm forced into dwarf by mez (in the unlikely event I run out of break free's and have something other than clarion currently slotted).
I don't use or slot Nova Bolt, as it is going to hurt your chain rather than help it (Nova Blast>Nova Em>Nova Blast>Nova Deton is best). If you mean Nova Blast, I give it a couple of damage enhancers and leave everything else to my set bonuses. On my range-defense nova build, Nova Blast gets the Apocalypse. Both builds get Ragnarok for Nova Detonation and Posi's for Nova Emanation (to boost the range).
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
No, actually, I left it in Dwarf mire. The reason is one of the mires must get armageddon and one of them must get obliteration, and, considering the frequency Dwarf mire is used while in that form, I would rather have some more endredux in it. Now that you mention it, though, I spend so little time in Dwarf it might be time to switch that over. Dwarf has lost nearly all of its use for me.
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personally I have been using Dechs' 3 slotting for Human Mire (Oblit: acc/rech, scirocco: acc/rech, rech IO) and Armageddon in Dwarf Mire.
I have been using Dwarf as my AV form, I also use Kinetic Combats in Dwarf strike, smite, and drain with Miracle heal and heal/End in Dwarf Drain, and one Nucleo on the end of smite and strike. I have been seriously considering dropping a Fury of the Gladiator res debuff on the end of Dwarf Mire... How much do you think that would help DPS? I don't think I can find a way to get the slots for a human attack chain without gimping something else (I use my human form exclusively for buffs and controls)
Edit: I just remembered my last respec moved hecatomb to Dwarf Smite out of G Well and replaced g well with 4 kinetic combats and a lockdown proc.
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Off the top of my head the -res proc in Dwarf mire could do something like boost your final damage by ~6% (not precise mathematics there though).|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
personally I have been using Dechs' 3 slotting for Human Mire (Oblit: acc/rech, scirocco: acc/rech, rech IO) and Armageddon in Dwarf Mire.
I have been using Dwarf as my AV form, I also use Kinetic Combats in Dwarf strike, smite, and drain with Miracle heal and heal/End in Dwarf Drain, and one Nucleo on the end of smite and strike. I have been seriously considering dropping a Fury of the Gladiator res debuff on the end of Dwarf Mire... How much do you think that would help DPS? I don't think I can find a way to get the slots for a human attack chain without gimping something else (I use my human form exclusively for buffs and controls) Edit: I just remembered my last respec moved hecatomb to Dwarf Smite out of G Well and replaced g well with 4 kinetic combats and a lockdown proc. |
I dropped all control powers (besides Gwell, obviously) to get my human chain where I like it; don't really need them with perma-eclipse and high defense, though Gravitic Emanation is always nice to have.
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