For primaries with very strong self heals(WP, FA, DA), Barrier. For everything else, Rebirth Radial.
The max HP bonus from Rebirth Core is nothing compared to the insane amounts of regen you get from Radial.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Ageless is actually the best imo and by quite a margin.
At the lowest point of the buff (ie just before it is about to expire) it is the equivalent of giving everyone around you two free Stamina powers fully slotted. That is hugely powerful, plus it gives some nice recharge bonuses.
With all that extra recovery, you can go ahead and unslot all of the endreducs from your abilities and find something more useful.
Quote:
What can be more useful than Barrier and Rebirth?
|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
Ageless is actually the best imo and by quite a margin.
At the lowest point of the buff (ie just before it is about to expire) it is the equivalent of giving everyone around you two free Stamina powers fully slotted. That is hugely powerful, plus it gives some nice recharge bonuses. With all that extra recovery, you can go ahead and unslot all of the endreducs from your abilities and find something more useful. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Well barrier is actually fairly average. I teend to cap my defense on all my characters anyway and Rebirth is nice if you want to heal others but Ageless and Aid Self are better for yourself.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
What can be more useful than Barrier and Rebirth?
|
You can turn Endurance into Health but the reverse isn't true.
My inv/ss tank took rebirth with regen over +hp.
Between dull pain, rebirth and my existing abilities I think I may be immortal.
I have also prevented team wipes by a well timed heal, like right after a Marauder nova punch.
Finally, I am earning all those healing badges that I thought my main would never get!
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Quote:
Most of your endurance issues can be taken care of with Cardiac, which happens to enhance Barrier as well. You get a bit of extra offense with the recharge, but unless you're farming that's not something you should be concerned with. I rarely see people with endurance issues nowadays, anyway.|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
Well barrier is actually fairly average. I teend to cap my defense on all my characters anyway and Rebirth is nice if you want to heal others but Ageless and Aid Self are better for yourself.
You can turn Endurance into Health but the reverse isn't true. |
If you're going to rely on Aid Self for healing instead of Rebirth, any offensive advantage you get from Ageless is null as you'll be stuck in animation quite often.
Barrier not only gives you godmode for a short amount of time, it helps builds reach that critical hard/softcap point. Good luck capping all of your defenses and reaching the critical point of resistance(85-90) without Barrier.
Here's an example of how good Barrier can be:
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Cool, this is why I started this thread. Lots of yummy opinions. Nom nom nom 
Haven't decided what to craft yet, but lots to think about. You guys rock!
*rock hands*
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Quote:
Actually, I find that one pretty useless for my tanks. I already addressed any endurance issues once they hit 50 and before we had Incarnate powers. Make no mistake, though, that recharge is great on some of my other toons - but not any of my tanks.|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
Ageless is actually the best imo and by quite a margin.
|
On a tank who already has killer resistance (my invuln, stone) or massive defense (my shield tank is over 50% on all 3 categories), I went with the +regen. On anyone who depends on healing (like my /regen scrapper, or WP tank), you want Barrier for the defenses.
It's like tank sets with LAYERED defenses. Having some defense on top of good resistance is huge. In this case, if you already have the resistance or defense, add regen. If you have regen or healing, add the resistance/defense.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Sorry I have to cut in here I have ageless on my fire/fire tank and AGELESS is very helpful for it. Not just for Farming either. My consume comes up faster, as well as healing flames, not to mention the extra heal it gives. If in a team with some one with NOVA and they just used it they basically gets there end back.Plus it gives you some debuf resistance. Btw nice build but do not see what u mean by the barrier, not to mention your bonuses for some of your NUMA including the ++ do not work unless it is activated. Turn off your Healing flames and look at your end recovery, and add in all your attacks and u say you do not have end issues?
|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Most of your endurance issues can be taken care of with Cardiac, which happens to enhance Barrier as well. You get a bit of extra offense with the recharge, but unless you're farming that's not something you should be concerned with. I rarely see people with endurance issues nowadays, anyway.
If you're going to rely on Aid Self for healing instead of Rebirth, any offensive advantage you get from Ageless is null as you'll be stuck in animation quite often. Barrier not only gives you godmode for a short amount of time, it helps builds reach that critical hard/softcap point. Good luck capping all of your defenses and reaching the critical point of resistance(85-90) without Barrier. |
Quote:
Umm ok.|
Originally Posted by LSK
Sorry I have to cut in here I have ageless on my fire/fire tank and AGELESS is very helpful for it. Not just for Farming either. My consume comes up faster, as well as healing flames, not to mention the extra heal it gives. If in a team with some one with NOVA and they just used it they basically gets there end back.Plus it gives you some debuf resistance. Btw nice build but do not see what u mean by the barrier, not to mention your bonuses for some of your NUMA including the ++ do not work unless it is activated. Turn off your Healing flames and look at your end recovery, and add in all your attacks and u say you do not have end issues?
|
1. Consume only needs to be used once every 2 minutes in order to receive its endurance debuff resistance. Any more than that is just refilling your endurance bar, which you shouldn't need with Ageless.
2. Extra heal from Healing Flames? I assume you took Spiritual. Healing Flames is already pretty awesome for healing, using it every 10 seconds instead of 15 might give you a bit better HP/Sec(and worse DPS), but it's not that big of a deal once you consider what Barrier+Cardiac can give you.
3. I can use the same team friendly argument for Barrier and Rebirth.
4. With that build, before Barrier, your Defense to S/L/N/E is at 40%, and your S/L resistance is at 80%. During the last 60 seconds of Barrier(when it gives the least amount of bonuses), you will be softcapped to S/L/N/E, which translates to a 50% damage reduction. Your S/L resistance will also be at 86% which translates to a 30% damage reduction.
5. You'll most likely be using Healing Flames once every 2 minutes to receive the proc effect.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Consume every 2 minutes? and healing flame every 2 minutes? boy thats a slow recharge even before alpha and destiny is added my consume comes up about every min, and HF comes up about 12.9 secs. Let just say everyone has there favorite I have barrier on my WP/SS tank, but i like the ageless on my fire/fire tank and as for SC if you are close enough just pop a purple to get you to SC. I still like how ageless helps me with not getting debuffed so much on an ITF and I know a few ppl who take barrier so like I said it is all a personal choice. Oh yea 1 more thing Barrier dose not help on a HAMI while all the others do.
|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Umm ok.
1. Consume only needs to be used once every 2 minutes in order to receive its endurance debuff resistance. Any more than that is just refilling your endurance bar, which you shouldn't need with Ageless. 2. Extra heal from Healing Flames? I assume you took Spiritual. Healing Flames is already pretty awesome for healing, using it every 10 seconds instead of 15 might give you a bit better HP/Sec(and worse DPS), but it's not that big of a deal once you consider what Barrier+Cardiac can give you. 3. I can use the same team friendly argument for Barrier and Rebirth. 4. With that build, before Barrier, your Defense to S/L/N/E is at 40%, and your S/L resistance is at 80%. During the last 60 seconds of Barrier(when it gives the least amount of bonuses), you will be softcapped to S/L/N/E, which translates to a 50% damage reduction. Your S/L resistance will also be at 86% which translates to a 30% damage reduction. 5. You'll most likely be using Healing Flames once every 2 minutes to receive the proc effect. |
Quote:
Funny, but my point was that you don't need to use them more than once every 2 minutes if you want the numina proc effect and the drain protection.|
Originally Posted by LSK
Consume every 2 minutes? and healing flame every 2 minutes? boy thats a slow recharge even before alpha and destiny is added my consume comes up about every min, and HF comes up about 12.9 secs.
|
Quote:
| Let just say everyone has there favorite I have barrier on my WP/SS tank, but i like the ageless on my fire/fire tank and as for SC if you are close enough just pop a purple to get you to SC. I still like how ageless helps me with not getting debuffed so much on an ITF and I know a few ppl who take barrier so like I said it is all a personal choice. Oh yea 1 more thing Barrier dose not help on a HAMI while all the others do. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
I disagree with you first off I hardly use my HF or my consume with most end game content on my fire/fire tank. I use ageless and spiritual for quicker recharge and the res debuff. It all comes down to what you want. Some people say ageless is the best, others say barrier while still others say rebirth, and then there is some that like clarion. we can sit here back and forth pointing out what is better in our opinion when it just comes down to personal preference.
|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Funny, but my point was that you don't need to use them more than once every 2 minutes if you want the numina proc effect and the drain protection.
It is most definitely a personal choice, but from a min/max perspective Barrier is the best for most content, as far as FA is concerned. |
Quote:
Well, thats exactly what I asked people to do |
Originally Posted by LSK
we can sit here back and forth pointing out what is better in our opinion when it just comes down to personal preference.
|
I am interested in your arguments and will probably try out more options because of this thread.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
I took barrier without looking into it too much on my fire fire. I love the recharge rate on it and I love what it does for me. It hard caps my defenses and resistances and makes tanking any boss a breeze. Not to mention, say your over aggro cap and your team is taking a huge hit, throw that off and they get the buff as well. This allows a window to kill everything so you can get back under that aggro cap.
(Just a note, I don't know how you prefer to play, but this has been a huge help for me.)
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
The only toon I've incarnated up is my main blaster. I took the heal and never use it. My heal and endurance recovery power is Rise of the Phoenix, which I use about every 30 minutes or so, but it recharges in, I think 70ish seconds.
And while I know it's theoretical, if anyone had to use Healing Flames every 10 seconds, they're doing something totally wrong.
I think the Destiny you choose is best depending on your team and depending on what your team took. I don't think they stack, and throwing duplicate Destiny is about as irritating as doubling or tripling up Judgements by accident.
And, defenders are in this game and most don't think they're blasters. In fact, they spam that crap all over the place.
Im currently unlocking rebirth on my Invul / SS tanker I want the +Regeneration. Dull Pain takes me almost to the HP cap anyway, so the +regen on top is nice.
Quote:
wait ... your heal/endurance recovery ability is based upon you DYING?!?! (Rise of the phoenix is the rez). And you think someone using healing flames a lot is doing something wrong?|
Originally Posted by Postagulous
The only toon I've incarnated up is my main blaster. I took the heal and never use it. My heal and endurance recovery power is Rise of the Phoenix, which I use about every 30 minutes or so, but it recharges in, I think 70ish seconds.
And while I know it's theoretical, if anyone had to use Healing Flames every 10 seconds, they're doing something totally wrong. |
'I'm low on endurance'
'dude, just rest'
'dont have time to rest ... only time to die!'
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
Quote:
I don't run out of endurance. I don't think I could unless a sapper got me.|
Originally Posted by Gashes
wait ... your heal/endurance recovery ability is based upon you DYING?!?! (Rise of the phoenix is the rez). And you think someone using healing flames a lot is doing something wrong?
'I'm low on endurance' 'dude, just rest' 'dont have time to rest ... only time to die!' |
Resting is for people afraid of death*. Death gives me my second nuke.
*and don't have RotP.
I've gone with Rebirth +regen on both of my characters who've gone far enough on Incarnate. The reason is it gives me a massive heal and a minimum of +200% regeneration... it's also perma at tier 3 with a 120 second duration/recharge. Rebirth is interesting in that the Radial line is vastly superior to the Core line; the +HP only gives you about an 8% boost for much of it's duration and a ~30% boost at it's maximum. Radial gives you a 1,600% regen boost to start out and never drops below 200%.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Quote:
Thanks for the sig!
|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
My inv/ss tank took rebirth with regen over +hp.
Between dull pain, rebirth and my existing abilities I think I may be immortal. I have also prevented team wipes by a well timed heal, like right after a Marauder nova punch. Finally, I am earning all those healing badges that I thought my main would never get! |
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
To answer the OPs question- I think it kind of depends on what your primary is. The only option I would rule out entirely is Clarion. Yes, it is helpful for those without Mez protection, but for a tanker, I think the value drops off the map rather quickly. All other options have their merit. I think most primaries would benefit the most through Barrier (in a snapshot) In case you are really getting pounded and need a god mode escape (with no crash) this is a great panic button. Ageless and Rebirth have their utility, but if I had to have only one on most of my tankers, barrier would be my choice.
Yes, there are tons of variables. Yes, IOs can affect how much a character leans towards one option or another when considering this. But I am jsut being as generic as possble here.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Quote:
I kind of disagree on the clarion for 1 simple reason. Say you are on a team with lot of squishes with no mez protection IE an ITF and you are fighting ROM/Nexus and he goes down. Most of them run for cover but do not make it. All of a sudden they die from an ambush that is there. But if u op that off then no one dies and no one is stunned. But for the other stuff I still say it is a personal choice.
|
Originally Posted by magikwand
To answer the OPs question- I think it kind of depends on what your primary is. The only option I would rule out entirely is Clarion. Yes, it is helpful for those without Mez protection, but for a tanker, I think the value drops off the map rather quickly. All other options have their merit. I think most primaries would benefit the most through Barrier (in a snapshot) In case you are really getting pounded and need a god mode escape (with no crash) this is a great panic button. Ageless and Rebirth have their utility, but if I had to have only one on most of my tankers, barrier would be my choice.
Yes, there are tons of variables. Yes, IOs can affect how much a character leans towards one option or another when considering this. But I am jsut being as generic as possble here. |
Quote:
A valid point. I guess you can label me a selfish player at times... heh.
|
Originally Posted by LSK
I kind of disagree on the clarion for 1 simple reason. Say you are on a team with lot of squishes with no mez protection IE an ITF and you are fighting ROM/Nexus and he goes down. Most of them run for cover but do not make it. All of a sudden they die from an ambush that is there. But if u op that off then no one dies and no one is stunned. But for the other stuff I still say it is a personal choice.
|
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Okay, this time I haven't unlocked the slot yet. But I like to have an enhancement crafted ready and waiting for when I do. However the options this time seem less obvious.
Ageless? Probably not.
Barrier? +Def & +Res, whats not to like?
Clarion? Hmmm, less interesting for me but maybe good for team? I could be interested in boosts to secondary effects if it allowed me to knock AVs off their feet?
Rebirth? Again less interesting depending on the effectiveness of the +Max HP. Must admit I have not kept up to date on the new Tanker HP cap.
As always, looking forward to your advice and experience
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04