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Not entirely! The biggest effect origin has is determining which DO/SO enhancements you can use (yes, some people still use them. And with Freedom coming soon and Free players being locked out of inventions, even more will). If you switch Origins, what happens to your slotted DOs/SOs? Do they get deleted automatically? Sold back at respec prices? Stop functioning as if you had outlevelled them? Keep working, but in the future can only be replaced by enhancements of your new origin?|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
origin doesn't really affect anything mechanical about a character except for which inherent attack you get
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In addition, there's a few temp powers which have different functions based on your origin.
I personally wouldn't object to seeing the ability to rechoose your origin, provided the cost wasn't too high - there's been times I've wanted to do exactly the same thing. But there are both balance and programming issues to take into mind - who knows what might break, that might not even seem related, should such a change be allowed?
@Roderick
I've long thought that origins should be assigned by power set rather than character. For instance, Captain Photon's energy blasts come from his mutation, but his devices sure don't, so it's a bit weird for him to be slotting genetic alterations in order to make e.g. his Targeting Drone more effective. (It also annoys me a little that he gets gypped out of the bonus damage on his vet-badge Nemesis Staff. I thought discrimination against mutants went out with Zubaz pants.) But then you get into what happens to pool powers and would players who aren't that into high concept go for having to shop at two different stores and whatnot, and the whole thing quickly becomes too much of a faff to bother with.
As for a wholesale character-wide change, I don't think I'd have any pressing use for it myself, but within the confines of the Standard Code Rant I'd support it for those who did.
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I completely forgot about the enhancements... I guess they'd either have to change any existing SOs into the appropriate origin, refund you the inf of the SO as if you did a respec and didn't slot any of them (this is probably the easiest thing to do imo)|
Originally Posted by Roderick
Not entirely! The biggest effect origin has is determining which DO/SO enhancements you can use (yes, some people still use them. And with Freedom coming soon and Free players being locked out of inventions, even more will). If you switch Origins, what happens to your slotted DOs/SOs? Do they get deleted automatically? Sold back at respec prices? Stop functioning as if you had outlevelled them? Keep working, but in the future can only be replaced by enhancements of your new origin?
In addition, there's a few temp powers which have different functions based on your origin. I personally wouldn't object to seeing the ability to rechoose your origin, provided the cost wasn't too high - there's been times I've wanted to do exactly the same thing. But there are both balance and programming issues to take into mind - who knows what might break, that might not even seem related, should such a change be allowed? |
As for the temp/vet powers yea again i hadn't considered those. =\
But let me be clear in saying I am making no assumptions that such a possible option to change origin would be easy to program. >.> I know full well that stuff like that can be complicated and break things. Still if nothing else I put the idea out there and if the devs decide it is something they can make work I'll be the happier for it!
If not it won't be the end of the world. I'll either just scrap the idea or make a new character.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
I would support it. I've had characters that I'd get the wrong origin on or that would go through some change from lets say a natural to magical.
I support it. Heck maybe it could be a mission or arc.
Standard code rant aside, I see no reason this couldn't be a possible feature for the future. Enhancements aren't a big enough deal to me. I have no idea what the code is doing behind the scenes but I'd assume they are checked only at the moment you try to slot them, not after they are slotted. Worst case you lose your DOs and SOs and have to reslot. (Well actually worst case is the game is built in some unpredictable way and it crashes, but again, SCR). IOs aren't connected to origin so there are no huge losses.
There are four things that, to the devs, define a character - primary, secondary, AT and origin. I *suspect* that Origin is baked rather deeply into the code from back in alpha, where it actually made a difference (how many powers you could take and how far you could advance them.) So it might be one of those "far more difficult than you think" items that would break... well, a surprising bit.
(I personally don't care one way or the other. Just throwing a theory out.)
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I can only hope that's not the case =\ though even if it's not... there's no guarantee the devs would want to spend the time necessary on such a feature =\
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
There are four things that, to the devs, define a character - primary, secondary, AT and origin. I *suspect* that Origin is baked rather deeply into the code from back in alpha, where it actually made a difference (how many powers you could take and how far you could advance them.) So it might be one of those "far more difficult than you think" items that would break... well, a surprising bit.
(I personally don't care one way or the other. Just throwing a theory out.) |
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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I can pretty much tell you that is the case.|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
I can only hope that's not the case =\ though even if it's not... there's no guarantee the devs would want to spend the time necessary on such a feature =\
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Origin is baked in around the same level as Archtype. According to Positron, Archtype-Respecs were pretty much functionally impossible. Given what's been stated about Origin in the past, I would suspect that it's going to be in the same "functionally-impossible" position.
Wait for CoV2...
jokes 
I wish we could change origins.
My altitis and mental instability make me change character concepts on the go while leveling.
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I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. That said, it would be nice, given that it makes very little difference in terms of general play. I've already done similar things to the OP with no real regard for the fact that it mucked with that little icon, but it'd be kinda neat to have it match.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
There are four things that, to the devs, define a character - primary, secondary, AT and origin. I *suspect* that Origin is baked rather deeply into the code from back in alpha, where it actually made a difference (how many powers you could take and how far you could advance them.) So it might be one of those "far more difficult than you think" items that would break... well, a surprising bit.
(I personally don't care one way or the other. Just throwing a theory out.) |
There would have to be something done either about enhancements, or to restrict changing a bit, though, otherwise Yin-Os would become more than a little nutty in the early parts of the game.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. That said, it would be nice, given that it makes very little difference in terms of general play. I've already done similar things to the OP with no real regard for the fact that it mucked with that little icon, but it'd be kinda neat to have it match.
There would have to be something done either about enhancements, or to restrict changing a bit, though, otherwise Yin-Os would become more than a little nutty in the early parts of the game. |
I suppose it could force a full respec at the same time, which in turn removes any possibility of slotting illegal invention pieces. I would guess the hardest part is dealing with taking away the temp power and replacing it with a different one.
But this also doesn't seem much more controversial to me than gender switching.
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I had the same thought about my gangster Vinnie Vegas, a thugs/traps MM. He was born with the mutant power of mental persuasion, a latent form of mind control, that helped him climb the ranks in the Family. As I leveled him it kinda bugged me in an rp sense that his mutant origin enhancements also improved the aspects of his traps. So I also gave him mild technokinesis/technopathy. |
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
I've long thought that origins should be assigned by power set rather than character. For instance, Captain Photon's energy blasts come from his mutation, but his devices sure don't, so it's a bit weird for him to be slotting genetic alterations in order to make e.g. his Targeting Drone more effective. (It also annoys me a little that he gets gypped out of the bonus damage on his vet-badge Nemesis Staff. I thought discrimination against mutants went out with Zubaz pants.) But then you get into what happens to pool powers and would players who aren't that into high concept go for having to shop at two different stores and whatnot, and the whole thing quickly becomes too much of a faff to bother with.
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It's an idea. Maybe you have a hero who gains fire control in a science experiment who later studies a magical tome that gives him storm summoning abilities. But yeah it's a minor point, a Dual-Origin option would be nice but not so desired that it's worth the Devs time.
IMO if they ever decide to allow dual-origins one way to go about it is to have Origin text itself be a text field unconnected to the Origin data bit, and have players select it like they do titles. Magic origin would enable the origin texts like "Magic," (the default) "Magic/Sci," "Magic/Tech," "Magic/Natural" "Magic/Mutation" and so on, but you'd still slot SOs using your "true" origin.
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Bu what about the character who has the mutant ability to summon things from a pocket dimension? If he keeps his gadgets in that pocket dimension until he needs them, then Devices could very much fall into the Mutation origin. |
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
I've long thought that origins should be assigned by power set rather than character. For instance, Captain Photon's energy blasts come from his mutation, but his devices sure don't.
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Or a character who is a technomancer and has the mutant ability to control machines?
Sorry, I'm not going to agree that certain powersets should lock us into specific origins, simply because there are so many ways you can explain your powers. Being locked into an origin because we picked a certain set would just hinder our creativity.
What about a sword wielder? Should a sword set automatically be Natural origin? I don't think so. What about the magic sword that grants incredible combat skill? Or a tech sword that has a built in HUD that appears when you hold it's hilt? Or a Science sword that was developed specifically for the wielder's DNA? Or the Mutant that has the ability to form the molecules of their body into a sword shaped weapon? If you lock a sword set into being natural origin you invalidate all of those possible origins.
There are also the character's like my Broadsword/Dark Armor scrapper. He is magic origin, he has a demonically possessed sword that grants him the Dark Armor powers. If he is forced to be Natural origin becuase he has a sword, his backstory doesn't work anymore.
On the other side of it, who's to say your Captain Photon can't be Tech origin? Sure, maybe he IS a mutant, but requires tech based gauntlets to amplify his powers, which are too weak on their own to be effective in combat? (I have a character with a similar backstory to that)
Locking people into one origin because of their powersets just limits how creative they can be when creating their characters. The examples I gave here are just stuff off the top of my head. I can explain any power set with any origin, and the ability to do that should not be taken away from us.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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You misread the suggestion, and are in violent agreement with Cap. He was suggesting the ability to specify a separate origin for each powerset (rather than just one for both), not that specific powersets get linked permanently to a specific origin.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Sorry, I'm not going to agree that certain powersets should lock us into specific origins, simply because there are so many ways you can explain your powers. Being locked into an origin because we picked a certain set would just hinder our creativity.
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The origin, as it is, is the answer to the question "How did you get the powers that made you a hero?" |
Originally Posted by kviri
You misread the suggestion, and are in violent agreement with Cap. He was suggesting the ability to specify a separate origin for each powerset (rather than just one for both), not that specific powersets get linked permanently to a specific origin.
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His Captain Photon would probably not be a hero if he did not have energy blasts. If those energy blasts came from a mutation, then that mutation is what made him a hero.
I have a Sonic/Devices blaster, who is mutation origin. The devices were an add on to his already present mutant ability, and his mutant ability is what makes him a hero. The Devices part of it is pretty much irrelevant in terms of what his origin is. He also flies via a pair of rocket boots. And he has a techy device that allows him to use electricity (Mu Mastery in this case). None of those things change the fact that he is a hero because he has the mutant ability to project powerful sound waves.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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That's cool and all, but that's just your character. Some characters have multiple sources of power, all of which are what make them a hero. You can't just pick and choose one and say "Nope, that's the only thing that defines them." If you have a Fire/Devices blaster, the fire being from a Mutation and the devices being from Technology expertise, both of which are large parts of the character, then that's where the dual origin concept would come in.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The origin, as it is, is the answer to the question "How did you get the powers that made you a hero?"
His Captain Photon would probably not be a hero if he did not have energy blasts. If those energy blasts came from a mutation, then that mutation is what made him a hero. I have a Sonic/Devices blaster, who is mutation origin. The devices were an add on to his already present mutant ability, and his mutant ability is what makes him a hero. The Devices part of it is pretty much irrelevant in terms of what his origin is. He also flies via a pair of rocket boots. And he has a techy device that allows him to use electricity (Mu Mastery in this case). None of those things change the fact that he is a hero because he has the mutant ability to project powerful sound waves. |
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That's not what I meant. Just the opposite, in fact. I was suggesting the ability to select an origin for each power set, not saying I thought certain power sets should automatically have certain origins attached. So Cap's Energy Blasts would be Mutation, and take Mutation-compatible Enhancements, but his Devices would be Tech, and take Tech-compatible Enhancements. However, another player might have preferred to say that his character's Energy Blasts were Science-induced, but his Devices were Magic. And so on.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Sorry, I'm not going to agree that certain powersets should lock us into specific origins, simply because there are so many ways you can explain your powers. Being locked into an origin because we picked a certain set would just hinder our creativity.
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It's a lot of technical faff for no practical reward at all, and most players don't even give a tenth of a damn, so in good conscience I can't even seriously advocate it. But I think it's an interesting thought exercise and would make the back-office stuff for "hybrid" characters like Cap make a little more sense for the players who are into that kind of thing.
Personally I just find the entire Origin concept as it's applied in the game to be worse than useless, as it's only viable function originally was to force characters to go to different shops to gear up. Between IOs and high level vendors, we're past that for the most part now, at least once you grind up to 32. Now days there are a few tidbits of functionality that have been added to it, like incorporating some terminology, or even an extra dialogue page into a very small number of quests, an inherent ranged power that's handy for melee types below level 12 (it seems to burn a lot more end than it's worth though... for the damage those do, I mostly just use them as a RP aid in combat, rather than a combat effect... if they were at least slottable like Brawl, they'd mean something).
For what it's worth, sure, I'd love to be able to change Origin, along with most other things. I have an Ice/Ice tanker than didn't get used for years until I completely rewrote his concept to something more appropriate to magic than the tech origin he originally had. I was able to change his name, change his body type, change his costume... but he's still stuck with an unfortunate tech origin. Ultimately it doesn't matter enough to reroll, since he has Anniversary badges, making him irreplaceable anyway.
If they were to tear everything apart and rebuild enough to fix the baked in Origin fiasco however, I'd much rather see something more meaningful. I'd rather see your "Origin" be more like a bonus power that gives you strengths and weaknesses versus certain power types, like choosing "Robot" and getting damage resistance or defense vs Psionic but taking extra damage from energy (electrical)... any number of other "origins" could apply. It's almost guaranteed to never happen though, at least not in CoH, because of the amount of work it would be to change something that many people just say, "meh, whatever... If I take Natural it won't screw with my vet reward and my SO's will have names that actually say what power they affect."
Dear NCsoft, if you go through with this shutdown you've guaranteed you'll not see another dime from me on any project you put out, ever.
http://xx-starhammer-xx.deviantart.com/
I'd personally love to be able to change Origin. That's mostly because my main has had the 'wrong' origin since I created her; as a new player, I failed in my reading comprehension of the Natural origin, which is what she should be. By the time I realized it, there was no way I was recreating her. I don't consider it to be terribly critical, but I think it'd be a cool change if the devs ever find the time.
As far as DOs and SOs go, I suppose forcing a respec at the time of the change would be one solution. But to be honest, I don't quite understand why there's any need for having different enhancements for each origin anyway? It's not like a level 35 Magic Damage SO has different stats from a level 35 Tech Damage SO (I assume, anyway. I use IO's almost exclusively).
I rerolled one of my first characters in his 20s (far enough back, both in terms of the state of the game and my skill in playing it, that it was not a trivial thing) once I got to SOs and decided that what I was buying and slotting just didn't fit my concept of him. He's a Natural, mostly, and that's how I have him now; but he's a sentai hero, and his transformation trinket (or "morphing watch", if you prefer) that unlocks and focuses his inner spirit is somewhere between Tech and Magic.
I've got another character whose powers are all from her Science accident... except Recall Friend, which is a convenient device she picked up along the way. Just a quirk.
(Don't even get me started on the "five artificial hearts and three cyber-hips" issue. At some point, you have to abstract or separate game mechanics from concept, or go insane.)
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Ok I wasn't sure exactly where to put this but I was just wondering if we'd ever see an option (paid most likely) to change our character's origin?
I know this is probably one of the most inconsequential things to be asking for but I didn't think it would hurt to ask considering all the various purchasable options coming in Freedom.
I can explain why I am asking for such an option. I'd like to breathe some new life into one of my oldest and most loved characters by reinventing her. New appearance, new backstory, SAME POWERS & AT, but different origin. She was originally made as a tech hero but I'd like to re-originate her as Magic instead. Since origin doesn't really affect anything mechanical about a character except for which inherent attack you get, I didn't think it could hurt to ask for this to be an option.
One of the primary reasons I'd like to do this and not simply reroll the character is that I've invested an incredible amount of time into her... badges, accolades, incarnate advancement. If it were just a matter of re-leveling I wouldn't hesitate but this character has so much from over the years I'd like her to retain that stuff. Sure I could simply name change her and redo her appearance but from an RP perspective she'd still be listed in game as a tech origin character and this would just bug the crap out of me. =\
If it's feasible to do, I'd love to see a option to do this using the Paragon Market in Freedom. It has no balance consequences, doesn't fundamentally change the character's abilities and its an easy way to milk me and maybe some other people as neurotic about their RP as me, for a few paragon points
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30