Why "multiplayer" tends to ruin my fun
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2011-07-16 06:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I've noticed this a lot too and it has bothered me on TFs, especially ones I wasn't used to as someone said earlier. It's not really an issue for me anymore, because if I'm on one of my 50's doing a TF I've already done several times, I don't need XP anymore, and chances are I'm doing the TF for a badge, merits, a respec, or incarnate goodies.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
If "winning" involves blatantly unfun gameplay or, worse, gaming the system (say, getting a hostage killed to fail a mission to get through a TF faster), then this just becomes unpleasant. And yet, 9 out of 10 TFs I get on, people want to fail missions, ghost missions, skip missions and rush missions. I actually recall running a Respec that took 15 minutes, 10 of which I spent waiting to be teleported, waiting for a boss to be killed or waiting for someone to play my game for me.
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You always have the option to form your own teams for TF's and trials though, and feel free to explain up front that you will NOT be ghosting and will NOT be failing missions, etc. I find that when I don't feel like speeding through stuff and I'm not wanting any particular reward, I play one of my various characters in the 20's-30's and join or a form a team in my own level range. Before level 50, people are much more interested in playing through everything because of the XP.
Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people have just done everything in the game so many freakin' times that all they want to do at this point is get it done. I'm personally not one of those people, but I could see how doing things 'the long way' might feel pretty tedious for them... Good thing the next issue is going to be loaded with tons of new content for us to play through and enjoy until we know it like the back of our hands.
Samuel got some good points. I feel that we are in similair positions. I also just want to have fun. I like to play the game, not watch others who mamanged to bcome ultrapowerful do everything while I am just a token hero/villain doing some negligeable stuff. Getting facepanted all of the time because the tank is soloing the whole map instead of doing what the tank used to do.
It is great that we have IO's and Incarnates but gone is the time that you needed each other to fullfill a task. That is nice for those who want to brag that they soloed ITF, but for casual gamers such as me, it is less fun.
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Not to mention that there's a certain fun to speeding as well. Trying to beat your own best-time and such.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I've noticed this a lot too and it has bothered me on TFs, especially ones I wasn't used to as someone said earlier. It's not really an issue for me anymore, because if I'm on one of my 50's doing a TF I've already done several times, I don't need XP anymore, and chances are I'm doing the TF for a badge, merits, a respec, or incarnate goodies.
You always have the option to form your own teams for TF's and trials though, and feel free to explain up front that you will NOT be ghosting and will NOT be failing missions, etc. I find that when I don't feel like speeding through stuff and I'm not wanting any particular reward, I play one of my various characters in the 20's-30's and join or a form a team in my own level range. Before level 50, people are much more interested in playing through everything because of the XP. Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people have just done everything in the game so many freakin' times that all they want to do at this point is get it done. I'm personally not one of those people, but I could see how doing things 'the long way' might feel pretty tedious for them... Good thing the next issue is going to be loaded with tons of new content for us to play through and enjoy until we know it like the back of our hands. |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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disagree on the importance of "needing" over "wanting". Back in the early issues i needed other players to fight the neverending and uninspired run of praetorians. they were avs and i could never fight them, particularly ones like marauder who's rage cut through my sr, and his invuln made my martial arts skill pretty much powerless.. then the developers changed things and had av's scale down to ebs on lower difficulties. We still teamed, but for fun, not because it was the only way to do so. I have noticed people running tip teams more. now admittedly a lot of people ghost them, which is their call, but usually i have been able to make groups who just want to have fun, tell intensely non t-friendly jokes and run content together. |
Originally Posted by Gunbunny
It is great that we have IO's and Incarnates but gone is the time that you needed each other to fullfill a task. That is nice for those who want to brag that they soloed ITF, but for casual gamers such as me, it is less fun. |
so i disagree. min maxers have existed since issue 1 with smoke grenade groups and wolf farms, where a well built tank, some blasters with the bugged smoke grenade or some other trick had the game basically challenge free and the rest of the group was merely to stand there in the back, and maybe bridge a lowbie. casuals still have and will have their place, an min maxers will still be as they had been and shall be till the end of the servers. and the clowns that just show up to tell dirty jokes, fight way over their heads, and make horrid costumes, well, i'm super, thanks for asking.
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Yeah, I hate any PvP (or PvE, for that matter) where you can actually lose stuff upon failing. I know some people like that and find it challenging, but I despise it. Being defeated is enough, taking stuff away that I have worked on forever is just not fun. I'm fairly okay with ranking systems for "skill" that some games have, but even that can get tedious. Trying to get published in real life is tricky and difficult enough without adding a game where I have to worry about what I could lose there.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Ugh, and then there's that. Playing with friends is always fun. Playing with strangers is sometimes fun. But when you can actually LOSE stuff you've worked to earn because of other people, and even when you can utterly fail through no fault of your own... That's problematic. These, actually, are the instances that tick me off the most - when I've done pretty much all I can to succeed and I still end up failing because other people just couldn't be arsed to participate.
I'm all in favour of giving everyone as many tools for social interaction and community-building as possible. I just like it when I'm given the option to play by myself, too, when I don't want my experience to depend on other people. |
Any gameplay involving other people is tricky. I was in a Battlefield 1942 clan that had some great people in it, but also some flaky ones. That fell apart because of them. I joined another (that a former clanmate had joined) that was full of great guys, but the clan was basically part of a conglomerate of gaming clans, and the other ones did not like us much. The guy that was basically in charge of the conglomerate and its website decided competitive gaming was dead (because of MMOs), and dissolved the whole conglomerate and website, without asking anyone. We eked along for another season of playing BF2, but that broke up because of pettiness, too.
So mostly good experiences with others, still marred by other people being mean about... gaming. For some reason. CoH does better with its community, and also when I'm not a part of such an official group. I'm sure there are SGs out there with too much drama as well.
Still, if you can find a good group of people, the benefits are probably worth the drawbacks.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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I don't call people idiots to to their faces, and when someone pisses me off on a team, I tend to simply stop chatting with them. I know my conduct here may make me seem like a confrontational *******, but I actually make it a point to never pick a fight with anyone in-game, especially if we'll be stuck on the same TF for the next hour and a half.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
You know Sam. I usually always agree with you, and in most of your post today I still agree with you in some of the things that you are saying...But if you keep calling people that you are playing with two dimensional idiot's who abondon you, maybe they are abandoning you because you're calling them two dimensional idiots.
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In another game, I once teamed up with a player who was TERRIBLE. He walked on spikes for no reason, he never blocked enemy attacks, he got in the face of monsters and ate death lasers over and over again and died all the time. In that game, you can revive people by giving them half your current health. Every time this idiot died in a stupid way, it cost me half my health, because every time he died, I went over to revive him. Until eventually I died, and he never bothered to revive me. And this in a game where dying costs you energy and energy costs real money. I never called him names, I never yelled at him. I did ask him - politely - to not walk on spikes and to use his shield a few times, but that's the extent of it.
Can you see how that might upset me slightly? Not only is that player a pure dead weight and refusing advise and help or even communicating in chat (and how he got to Tier 2 dungeons I cannot say), but he's costing me cold hard cash by doing this. We failed that run, and we failed HARD. When I returned to Haven, I really didn't feel like going back down for another run. I eventually did return, but this time by locking my team to be invite-only so random strangers don't suddenly pop into my game uninvited.
Where do you suspect I went wrong in the above example and what part of the events which ruined my fun was my fault? What more do you suppose I could have done to salvage a player who, from everything he did, appeared to be have ten thumbs? Serious question here.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I have considered it, actually, but I'm not sure I could produce enough content to keep such a thing updated. You should have seen my review on the Doom movie, though. Man that thing hurt my brain, and that's precisely the sort of thing that gets me to say the most |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Also, Sam; you should start doing your own recorded blogs or something
 would make good reading/listening |
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
The old animation works better on power push because, despite the speed of the attack, it still looks powerful due to the knock-back. If Energy Transfer had the old animation and mag 50 knock-back, the old animation would look awesome.
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But that's my love for aesthetics trumping my desire for efficiency, which is kind of what gets me in trouble with team-mates a lot. I used to have people scoff at me for not having Stamina before that became inherent, and every time I mention not wanting to use Sets these days, I run a 50/50 chance of someone telling me I'm stupid for it or telling me how easy it is and how I really, really should. All that does is make me have to choose between compromising my concepts and picking things I don't like, therefore not having fun, or not being strong and efficient enough to rub shoulders with most players, therefore not having fun when I team with them. Ugh...
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I've noticed this a lot too and it has bothered me on TFs, especially ones I wasn't used to as someone said earlier. It's not really an issue for me anymore, because if I'm on one of my 50's doing a TF I've already done several times, I don't need XP anymore, and chances are I'm doing the TF for a badge, merits, a respec, or incarnate goodies.
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This, really, is what gets me in a conflict with team-mates so very often. They just want to win at any cost, I want to win in a cool way, and the two aren't always compatible. I want to get off Daedalus' boat, carve a path of destruction along the beach, storm the hill and smash through the enemy defences, attack the Nazi compound, hack their computers then go down the stairs THROUGH the enemy soldiers, smash the computer then go up the stairs to the upper platform and beat Romulus and Requiem's faces on their own home ground. To this day, this has never, ever happened to me. Not even once.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Form your own teams. You got your own idea of what you wanna do in the game, and that's perfectly cool, but if nobody is forming a team that suits you, it's up to you to form one instead.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
This, really, is what gets me in a conflict with team-mates so very often. They just want to win at any cost, I want to win in a cool way, and the two aren't always compatible. I want to get off Daedalus' boat, carve a path of destruction along the beach, storm the hill and smash through the enemy defences, attack the Nazi compound, hack their computers then go down the stairs THROUGH the enemy soldiers, smash the computer then go up the stairs to the upper platform and beat Romulus and Requiem's faces on their own home ground. To this day, this has never, ever happened to me. Not even once.
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I don't really enjoy speedruns. If someone else does it's fine, but they're just not my cuppa tea. So when I recruit people for a TF or SF, I tell'em it's an "XP/shards run". That doesn't mean cleaning the maps from every single enemy, but it clearly gets across the idea that we'll spend a lot of time actually fighting enemies. The people that join me know this. Whether they join me because they love mowing down armies or because they want their reward drops, they know there's gonna be little to no stealthing.
Being the leader also means you can deal with the specifics. While it's understood we'll be fighting through the valley, how we tackle the Fifth Column camp can differ. One time I suggested we tackle the AVs on their platforms before dealing with the computer, and we did that. Another time I had a nigh-invincible team, so we took on the computer as someone pulled both AVs complete with their mobs. In one particular ITF we were doing super-well, so I suggested in the final mission that we split the team in half and take both paths leading to Romulus, and make a race out of it.
The nice thing about being a team-leader is that you can generally run things how you like them. As long as it agrees with the general idea of the run (speed, kills, etc), people are willing to just listen and do things your way. Sometimes you got one or two members that don't hear you or something and head off somewhere else, but generally once they realise the team's somewhere else they come join you, or ask what's up and then come join you.
Assuming there's no chance you will ever lead a team though (some people just hate the star that much), all you can really do is ask the TF leader whether they're recruiting a kills run or a speed run and then join if it's the former or politely decline if it's the latter. At least that's what I do when I don't feel like running a TF myself.
Never had any of these problems on Defiant, even with PUGs. TFs are usually done properly; if it's a speed-run then it's advertised as such. The only "idiots" we've ever had have left and gone to larger servers.
I don't know what server you play on, but if you don't want PUGs and just want to have fun playing your way then why not go to a smaller server? People play on smaller servers for several reasons such as community and the low intake of "idiots". In my case I've never set foot in any of the other servers, even Union when the list was split, why? Because I enjoy the community of where I am now and don't care about having more people to play/win with.
But yes, I also am the kind of person who likes defeating mobs stylishly. Only time I ever do speed-runs is if I don't have much time, but I certainly find them a lot more stressful.
Also, y'should come to Union Sam Where I can drag you onto 'Kill EVERYTHING nice and steady!' TF runs and the like. I also hate skipping missions. That leads to a LOT of dead Rikti in the LGTF Fun times
On the off-topic of animations, however, I really wish they'd make an alternate Total Focus animation. The 'big floaty fist flap' thing looks so un-inspiring. It's too slow, lacks weight and looks silly when used with hover.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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But herein lies the problem - I don't make for a good leader. I've tried putting teams together for TFs, but I've rarely succeeded at them, and to be quite honest... I don't know what I'm doing wrong. If I put teams together, it's with friends of mine who happen to be online, and considering how many of my friends have sailed away to other games, that usually means a duo with one other person.|
Originally Posted by Noxilicious
Form your own teams. You got your own idea of what you wanna do in the game, and that's perfectly cool, but if nobody is forming a team that suits you, it's up to you to form one instead.
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It's sort of a no-win situation. I'm not good with organising events and leading people, so by nature I'm drawn to random game joining as that does the building and organising for me. At the same time, random game joining is a pure crapshot as to whether you'll have a good time or not. Teams with friends are almost always good, but I don't have that many friends left, and the ones that are still here always schedule weird events, like "All Saturday we'll be collecting Flashback badges."
Like I said, single player missions are the one thing which never lets me down
Well, has never let me down since AVs started scaling down to EBs, anyway.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Ok. Im not gonna do the quotes thingy. Mainly because you have two posts that I should be responding too with my comment.
I have no doubt in my mind that you are not calling people two dimension idiots to their face. To me, that prolly isn't your style, but there are other ways in which you can give that impression in game without realizing it, and since chatting and creating story driven adventures is what you seem to love in this, and other games, resulting in a meaningfull adventure, sometimes it can be through the tone of the chat.
People can get tired of sarcasm, and also gloom.
Now about you taking leadership! If you don't step up, you can't complain. If you say you can't direct, then you have no place telling someone they cannot or can walk on spikes if they choose.
If you can't speak up and say..."YO your costing me money and gold"..."Stop walking on freaking spikes" then thats not multi players issue, it that you need to A) either take leadership, even for one minute and tell that person to stop, or B) talk in tells with the team leader and have them do it.
I play a dom and a controller. Tanks usually always seem to like to lead, but I lead my teams in TF's, Trials, and I do not nearly have the amount of game time here that you do. But I do know that if a player is continually ignoreing, sponging, coasting for XP, or literrally getting my team wiped because fo foolish actions then my job is to warn...and eventually kick that person off the team. It's not that hard.
With the content out there right now, especially TF's people have done them over and over. Sure new people might not have the excperience, but this is when even not being a leader makes you one. You "CAN" share your experience with them. Even if not a leader you can still point them in the right direction.
I am not expecting you to lead Sam, but for someone so vocal on the community forum, I would expect that you could vocalize something to either a leader of the group, or to the person causing issues to better resolve the concern and get more enjoyment out of the gaming experience you feel you are lacking.
I want you to have fun again.
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You can do multi-quotes by marking all posts you want to quote and selecting "New Reply." The forum software will dump all posts in the order in which you flagged them. I find this incredibly helpful when I want to quote multiple people or multiple posts from the same person. Not criticising you, just saying it's there if you need it.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
Ok. Im not gonna do the quotes thingy. Mainly because you have two posts that I should be responding too with my comment.
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Originally Posted by Nyx
People can get tired of sarcasm, and also gloom.
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And like I said - if I get pissed off, I generally say nothing at all. I'm not sure where you get that "sarcasm" and "gloom" from. Those I discuss with people I actually like to discuss things with, not with whoever is tugging on my nerves right at that moment.
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Originally Posted by Nyx
If you can't speak up and say..."YO your costing me money and gold"..."Stop walking on freaking spikes" then thats not multi players issue, it that you need to A) either take leadership, even for one minute and tell that person to stop, or B) talk in tells with the team leader and have them do it.
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And besides, why do you seem to define "leadership skills" as "the argumentative intolerant person who just happens to have the star?" Because I've said this before - having a star by your name means precisely nothing. The leader of the team isn't the starborne one, it's whoever is doing the most to hold the team together, keep the team motivated and look after the team's well-being. The position of leader is not one of power, it is one of responsibility. Whoever happens to be leading a team has the responsibility to look after his team-mates and ensure they're having fun.
The type of leadership you seem intent on chastising me for not adopting is the kind of selfish, self-centred reason I play by myself anyway - because I want to do my stuff my way at my own pace. That don't work on a team, because I'm not teaming of bots to whom I can issue commands. I team with real, actual people who play this game and joined my team, ultimately, so that they could have fun. I'm never going to put a team together just because a task requires an arbitrary number of other warm bodies to start or complete. If I ever team, it's for one of two reasons:
1. Because I genuinely want human company at this particular moment
and
2. Because the game leaves me no option whatsoever
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Originally Posted by Nyx
I am not expecting you to lead Sam, but for someone so vocal on the community forum, I would expect that you could vocalize something to either a leader of the group, or to the person causing issues to better resolve the concern and get more enjoyment out of the gaming experience you feel you are lacking.
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I've often said it here on the forums that "reason is lost on the unreasonable," and this has held true every single time it's come up. Sure, some people are open to suggestions and even to convincing. I've been lucky enough to run I think three Bastion TFs in a row where we didn't stealth anything. And not for lack of desire. The team leader specifically asked what we wanted to do, some didn't care, some wanted to ghost, I asked that we kill stuff along the way because I'm here to kick *** and chew bubble gum, and I'm all out of *** or something to that effect. And the team leader and a few team-members agreed. No harm, no foul.
I start confrontations when I feel there's a point or I feel I need to stand up for what I believe in. I don't start confrontations with team-mates on whether we should stealth this mission or not when they're calling my sexual orientation into question. No-one's going to convince anyone of anything. What the team as a whole decides will happen will happen. If it's what I like, great. If it's what I hate, I always have the option of simply leaving. No TF that I can recall is long enough for this to be tragic, and the players who run the long ones usually come with patience anyway.
This actually ties into something I've taken to doing on the forums, as well - ignoring people. It took a few years for me to recognise that there were a few people who were immune to being argued with and speaking with them was just pissing me off while accomplishing nothing. So I ignored them and I never want to know what they have to say ever again. It's made the forums significantly more fun for me since, making me surprised how it could be a handful of people making it so horrible in the first place. This has taught me that there's no point in starting confrontations when there's nothing to be gained. If it gets bad enough that I have to leave a team unless I make a scene, then I'm leaving it after I make it anyway, so what does that accomplish?
Some people can be reasoned with, and teaming with them is great. Some people are not open to suggestion, but are upfront about just wanting to do their thing. I can respect that, too. Some people, however, only care about their team-mates as an inanimate resource to help grind more stuffs, and these people I simply don't want to team with if given the chance. Which I not always am.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I don't know how it is on other servers, but on Virtue people are usually up-front about HOW they want to do a TF. They've usually advertised it as a "speed" version or as a "kill all" or "kill most" (usually meaning whatever is in the way of the team but not going out of the way to clear). So you know what you're getting going in and if they haven't said you can always ask. Doesn't mean you won't have some random idiot mess everything up but I find that is pretty rare these days, because for the most part it IS a pretty experienced playerbase at this point.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people have just done everything in the game so many freakin' times that all they want to do at this point is get it done.
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PuGs, honestly, are the only thing keeping me in this game. New content is nice but it quickly becomes old content. Quicker than they can make it. So the only thing different about replaying that content is the team. I can't imagine wanting to play it on some regular team of super-efficient min/maxed players. That would get old for me very quick. Just figuring out how the PuG I've joined is going to work is half the fun. If I wanted predictable, I could just replay a good old single-player game.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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I have considered it, but I have some concerns regarding ping and packet loss. I hear all the servers are in the same place now so there are no more EU servers, no more East coast servers and no more West Coast servers. However, some servers still lag more for me than others. Virtue, for instance, is horrible, giving me 350+ ping at least, often much more. Victory, by comparison, gives me around 250 most of the time, which is what I'm used to. I'm close to running out of server slots on Victory and Pinnacle, and when I expand, that may well be on Union or the other English-speaking EU server.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Also, y'should come to Union Sam
Where I can drag you onto 'Kill EVERYTHING nice and steady!' TF runs and the like. I also hate skipping missions. That leads to a LOT of dead Rikti in the LGTF Fun times |
I don't really mind small populations. I've never felt the need to be tripping over real people in an MMO.
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Originally Posted by Zem
PuGs, honestly, are the only thing keeping me in this game. New content is nice but it quickly becomes old content. Quicker than they can make it. So the only thing different about replaying that content is the team. I can't imagine wanting to play it on some regular team of super-efficient min/maxed players. That would get old for me very quick. Just figuring out how the PuG I've joined is going to work is half the fun. If I wanted predictable, I could just replay a good old single-player game.
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Have you ever imagined a character or written a story and then though to yourself "Self, wouldn't it be great if a big-shot Hollywood producer asked to make a movie out of my work?" City of Heroes is - and I say this in all seriousness - the next best thing to that. Even before I got into this game, I'd spent years and years imagining characters and putting stories together in my head, but they never had a concrete, visual form. And now they do. The content may be old, repetitive and somewhat boring. What I care about is what I make. A new character in itself is enough content to get me from 1 to 50 one more time.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Agreed. Whether bad or good, pugs are always a new experience.|
Originally Posted by Zem
I don't know how it is on other servers, but on Virtue people are usually up-front about HOW they want to do a TF. They've usually advertised it as a "speed" version or as a "kill all" or "kill most" (usually meaning whatever is in the way of the team but not going out of the way to clear). So you know what you're getting going in and if they haven't said you can always ask. Doesn't mean you won't have some random idiot mess everything up but I find that is pretty rare these days, because for the most part it IS a pretty experienced playerbase at this point.
PuGs, honestly, are the only thing keeping me in this game. New content is nice but it quickly becomes old content. Quicker than they can make it. So the only thing different about replaying that content is the team. I can't imagine wanting to play it on some regular team of super-efficient min/maxed players. That would get old for me very quick. Just figuring out how the PuG I've joined is going to work is half the fun. If I wanted predictable, I could just replay a good old single-player game. |
EDIT: Will never forget the tanker on our citadel TF who actually quit becuase he saw how cool the dominators were and wanted to make one of his own
He came back before the TF was over though...
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
This is part of why the Trial/Free account limitations here in City of Heroes worry me so much. Yeah, I know they're there to oppose RMT spam, but it has to be horrible to log into an otherwise great game and realise you can't speak with people, you can't invite people, you can't join any of the more public channels... I'm really not sure what to do about that, but this sort of thing is bad for community building AND it means people end up teaming with whatever random people are available at the time.
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Incidentally, listen to the link in my signature, which convinces me what stance a company should take regarding MTs.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Sam...if you think Im being confrontational with you, then you are horribly wrong. Im actually trying to understand whats eating you.
First off, Leadership is not designated by the star, and I never said it was, but admin rights to either change up the team or to remove someone is the person with the stars option because they have the control. So if you are not in the lead...speak with them.
Leadership is defined by the individuals who speak with each other and roll with each other, whether in PuG or in a group of friends. If you can do something better but don't have the star...who cares, you can take the lead or advise whats the next option or action.
1) Not rezzing or kicking people who are not taking any form of direction, or merely don't care about the rest of the team is removing a threat to team success and saftey. This to me is something that has to be done from time to time because of the nature of how some players play.
Which can be considdering "Glory Hogging" Which can also be silly.
However, if a person is inexperienced, then leadership is valuable if they listen, if they don't then it's sort of the same issue as the concern with the "Glory Hogger" if you want a team that is effective and more importantly fun.
2) If you are talking about soloing and kicking everyone from your team, and using your words "If I'll be removing all the people who piss me off, that's what it comes down to anyway". Sounds to me that although you mention that you seek human company, what you really means is people who you expect to follow you. Not that you're leading anything, but you expect people to "Just" know what you are thinking and your playstyle. It also sounds like everyone just pisses you off in game in general if they don't follow your game style.
This is unfair Sam. This is expecting people to just know what you want and how you like it, and since many people who play don't always frequent the forums, and when this goes F2P and all the new players wont have access to the forums, then no one, and I mean no one is gonna know how you like your experience to go.
I don't have much more to add here. I don't expect you to be a smiley bear, bubble with a kitten inside, but what you do need to realize is that like going to the mall, work, bar, club, family gathering, there are going to be people you will mesh with, and people you wont, and "Two dimentional Idiots" are out in the real world as well as in game.
If you bend just a little, you might find a PuG and new folks still here, who have not left the game that you might like to enjoy playing with again and share your goals and style. Don't doom everyone.
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"Confrontational" is probably not the right word. However, you seem to come off from the position that I don't know what I'm talking about and if I have any problems - even if you can't quite grasp what they are - these are surely my fault and no-one else's. I may be jaded because, at least for a while, I had sort of a fan club of people who would follow me around the forums to tell me I was anti-social, in case I forgot, but believe me when I say this - I've given the subject more thought than you know.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
Sam...if you think Im being confrontational with you, then you are horribly wrong. Im actually trying to understand whats eating you.
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Originally Posted by Nyx
If you are talking about soloing and kicking everyone from your team, and using your words "If I'll be removing all the people who piss me off, that's what it comes down to anyway". Sounds to me that although you mention that you seek human company, what you really means is people who you expect to follow you. Not that you're leading anything, but you expect people to "Just" know what you are thinking and your playstyle. It also sounds like everyone just pisses you off in game in general if they don't follow your game style.
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I play on teams when I feel I've done enough of "my stuff" to last me for a good, long while, so I can stand things not going my way for the duration of a long team task. I've done Shard TFs, and quite few times. I don't regret doing any of them, and I recall most of those taking upwards of four hours. However, every time I have to deal with people, I'm running on batteries. I can't just go AFK for half an hour to watch Ice Road Truckers: Alaska, I can't decide I want to swap my level 35 SOs with level 40 Commons all at once RIGHT NOW, I can't stop and chat with Nuclear Toast or the Vulpish One because they just came online... I've never complained about these things to my teams, I simply don't do that. But whenever I'm done with a team, I usually log out of the game and go do something else to recharge.
I don't expect people to magically know what I want to do, obviously. I rarely even ask people to just drop what they're doing and come join me on MY team running MY missions to MY timetable. I do have a friend or two who are willing to do this, for which I am eternally grateful, but friends aren't strangers. And my entire point was just this - when my gameplay depends on other people, I can't stick with this gameplay indefinitely, or indeed very long at all. Games which offer me no alternative are games I don't stick with for very long. All it takes is other people pissing me off a few times and I'm gone, and once I'm gone in anger, I usually don't come back.
In City of Heroes, by contrast, none of that matters. Doesn't matter how much someone else pisses me off. I can always duck into an instance and beat the everloving snot out a bunch of NPCs, and by the end of that, everything is once more right with the world. I've listed many reasons why I'm still here, but I have to be honest here - if City of Heroes did not offer me to option to keep to myself whenever I chose, I would not be here talking about this. There are a great many things that tick me off in this game, both from other people and from the game itself, and even sometimes from the developers. But there ain't no problem in this game that curb-stomping an instance full of faceless thugs with no rights won't solve.
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Originally Posted by Nyx
If you bend just a little, you might find a PuG and new folks still here, who have not left the game that you might like to enjoy playing with again and share your goals and style. Don't doom everyone.
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I have no interest in my games pushing me out of my comfort zone. My real life does that enough as it is. I play games because in games, everything always goes my way. That's why they exist.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Deleted by me, cuz...well, it's just not important
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Have it your way. I do actually enjoy discussions like this when we're not trying to change each other, but if you don't feel like it then I can respect that. No harm, no foul |
Originally Posted by Nyx
Deleted by me, cuz...well, it's just not important
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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No I deleted it because what I wrote just sounded like a snarky version of myself...and in my defense I was a little hopped up on allergy meds and it just came accross between "High Horse" who was "High"|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Have it your way. I do actually enjoy discussions like this when we're not trying to change each other, but if you don't feel like it then I can respect that. No harm, no foul
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What I was getting at before my deletion was that, yes you pay your subscription like all of us. You like the game, and don't want to bend because of reason you mentioned including the fact that you pay for it.
But this also sounds like an Elderly old man who remembers when banks closed at 4, TV had no color, and you had to walk home 17 miles through 17 feet of snow, from school, up hill both ways, and darnit...you liked it better that way!
Well, we all pay for it, for now anyways.
But it seems to me that what you enjoy is your character! You enjoy that process, and then the rest leaves you sort of cold. It's sounds like you put effort, like I do when it comes to your creation of your character, and that when others don't care, notice, or considder your creation pixels that ruins part of your experience.
Over the last course of posts I have also noticed things that you don't like. Trials, Trials that trivialize the content, Long TF's, Thickness of Vanguard Weapons, Certain Special Effect costume peices, PuGing, CoH/CoV Trailers...and the Arc in which you are newly incarnated and defeat all the Echo's of Cannon...and you also don't RP much as well from what I gather, Crafting system, IO's, People calling the Consignment House an Auction House..etc.
Just always seems like you love the game for exactly what many people blow through, which is character development and creation. Thats great because I know you love one thing. But see...I don't know what else you like. You seem to like only your own creations, as you make them, invision them, and want them to play out.
The unfortunate thing is that in magic game land there are always going to be people who are going to pee on your perade, and not give a crap, that you spent hours making a costume, or took days coming up with a concept. Or worse, they will look at you oddly because you did not min/max or take flavor of the month build.
In my original post I sort of implied you were a gamer snob. Snob can be harsh, but sometimes Sam when you write things, you sort of sound exactly like a little kid in a sandbox who does ot get his way, takes his toys home, and pouts and then complains later when he is by himself and bored.
What do you like Sam? Other than your own creations? Most of your recent posts imply nothing...except back in the olden days when you first got your tights, put em on, and a walked 17 miles through the snow to get to Atlas? (Which you also don't like because it's like logging into a social nightmare or something you mentioned in the "What will you miss about Galaxy City thread).
What do you like?
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I feel almost like I'm interrupting a private conversation here (even though it's a public forum). I don't really know anyone on these forums, but over the past couple of years I've made some good friends in the game. IRL I am social and easy to get along with, but because my hobbies have always been solitary (like writing, reading), I can't recharge my batteries around other people. There are nights in City of X when I feel like I've had way too much human contact at work or whatever, and I just type /hideall and spend time with my characters, doing my own thing, and sometimes it's the best cure in the world for all my ills.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
Just always seems like you love the game for exactly what many people blow through, which is character development and creation.
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Some people, inversely, are literally scared to be alone with their own thoughts for very long. People like that generally don't have an inkling of understanding for why I need to go and be by myself for stretches of time. What used to really irk me was when friends like that [rather selfishly] seemed offended when I needed time to myself--as if I was doing something wrong to them. These days I am pretty quick to let people know, this is who I am, and I owe no apologies for it.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
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Nor should you make any appologies for that! You shouldn't have to do things you don't want, or do things with others when you want your alone time.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Some people, inversely, are literally scared to be alone with their own thoughts for very long. People like that generally don't have an inkling of understanding for why I need to go and be by myself for stretches of time. What used to really irk me was when friends like that [rather selfishly] seemed offended when I needed time to myself--as if I was doing something wrong to them. These days I am pretty quick to let people know, this is who I am, and I owe no apologies for it.
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But if you open youself and your psyche to a public forum of an MMO which implies a certain level of social interaction...Especially on a forum then you need to understand that people will read it and respond and ask you for your explanation or delve into your statement.
If alone time is what people desire, then it seems odd to post the reason for alone time on a public forum with the expectation that people will leave the post alone? I don't think Im crazy for saying that.
I mean, there takes a lot of patients to pug, and you always talk about how things in Multiplayer ruin your fun. You also sometimes talk about how other players act, or do things, and while Im not trying to be a ****** here, maybe the issue is not with the others.
I mean, I respect you as a forumite and a player of a game I love, and a game which I have numerous issues with, whether it be player side or mechanics, but I don't usually abandon players...nor call them two dimensional idiots. Yes...those people exist, but what if, just for one moment, it's NOT them spoiling the fun? What if it's you?
I dunno, again I mean no disrespect (Which is coming accross as passive agressive I am aware) but I had to learn not to think of MYSELF as NOT a Unique and beautiful butterfly so that I could enjoy the fact that Im playing a game I like, and moreso, that Im not L33t and need to work with the players I am thrown into.
I had more fun when I made the call to just go with the flow, and not against the grain, and my friends who i play with now usually call me by my heroes name, and not names I can't mention here.
If you want people not to abandon you...stop using "Brain Addled Monkeys", "Two Dimensional Idiots" and other such nonsense. Or...take leadership and direct the team, instead of talking about what others are not doing....for YOU!
really my issue with multiplayer games is actually one of the gameplay, online means latency and fiddly locations of players and enemies due to differences in the network. I often talk about my favorite paragon of single player games, i cant name it, but its a game by tecmo about a ninja, carry the 2. it has very precise gameplay incorporating precise platforming, quick timing and branching combos with a surplus of amazing animations, and freakign throws. no online mmo has come within a mile of that, they feel constrained by their genre, and i find them weaker games. also, stories can progress in single player games, we coudl have stopped the primary rikti invasion, only fighting stragglers, we coudl have croatoa radically changed, we coulhave villain groups appear and vanish, and their actions cause real changes in the world, but its a persistent world, so no dice.
i play mmos for big groups with lots of booms going off and lots of stupid jokes thrown at my teammates for the occasional laugh from them. and because few offline games have a character creator like coh/that one competing game we dont talk about, i play them, but online massive multipayer games, i say nay, nay good sir, they curdle my pallet