Taunt in RTTC - Willpower?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Hey All,

Well, I'm playing with a more squishy toon (mine is a DB/WP Scrapper) and I understand that RTTC can take taunt SO's and such.

Are they wasted slots if I use them that way? I really need to get stuff off the other toon and if she tosses an AoE that hits NPC's too far away she gets clobbered.

Any ideas on what I can do?


 

Posted

RTTC is probably the only taunt auras that is potentially worth slotting for taunt. Unlike the taunt auras in other sets it has a very short duration so it really needs some assistance if you want to hold aggro with it. You might also want to look at taking Confront or Provoke if you want to be able to hold aggro consistently.


 

Posted

Take Confront
If she's hitting things from more than 8 feet away from you, rttc won't help


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Take Confront
If she's hitting things from more than 8 feet away from you, rttc won't help
Provoke is a AoE Taunt (according to the description, I've never personally used it) so I would go with that if you have the pool space open


 

Posted

I like Confront better. It only hits 1, but it's autohit, lasts three times longer and reduces range.

Then again, I pick Confront on characters without aggro aura. Provoke might make sense on a WP, provided you have the pool open... That's a big "if" though. I'd hate to skip Maneuvers, Tough/Weave, Cj or Hasten.

As for Taunt enhancements in RttC, eh. Turning a 1.25s taunt into a 1.5s taunt won't change things much, the aura ticks every second anyway doesn't it?

Edit: oh... Good point, Sarrate.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
As for Taunt enhancements in RttC, eh. Turning a 1.25s taunt into a 1.5s taunt won't change things much, the aura ticks every second anyway doesn't it?
Don't forget to factor in the Purple Patch. Against higher con enemies, the 1.25s duration gets reduced further.


 

Posted

Perhaps, but I've allways found that the best way to taunt something is to stab it in the face, repeatedly if needed.


The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.

 

Posted

While this is true, it doesn't keep the 'stabby-taunt'-ee's buddies glued to you, like a Tanker's taunt would.

Be Well!
Fireheart


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireheart View Post
While this is true, it doesn't keep the 'stabby-taunt'-ee's buddies glued to you, like a Tanker's taunt would.

Be Well!
Fireheart
Or a Brute's.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanieB View Post
Hey All,

Well, I'm playing with a more squishy toon (mine is a DB/WP Scrapper) and I understand that RTTC can take taunt SO's and such.

Are they wasted slots if I use them that way? I really need to get stuff off the other toon and if she tosses an AoE that hits NPC's too far away she gets clobbered.

Any ideas on what I can do?
If its very important to you, grab confront.

Honestly, you need to talk tactics with your friend.

She should not be tossing AoEs onto enemies that you haven't already engaged with.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanieB View Post
Any ideas on what I can do?
Tell your friend to stop tossing AoEs at enemies that aren't surrounding you yet.

That's really the only way she'll stop getting smoked by stuff.

It's just as much her job to keep herself alive as it is yours. More her job actually, but if she's tossing AoEs into spawns you aren't engaged with yet there's nothing you can really do about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanieB View Post
Any ideas on what I can do?
Have her just wait a few seconds later than usual. DB is an awesome CC set and you're a scrapper at that, get those chains in and by the time one or two mobs break away; they're the last standing and likely hurt.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
If its very important to you, grab confront.

Honestly, you need to talk tactics with your friend.

She should not be tossing AoEs onto enemies that you haven't already engaged with.
Yes, because the first person I ALWAYS ask for tactical advice would be a scrapper......

Everyone else... "we should go into this room and then toss a slow and seeds if it's up, then use some rad powers to debuff and smoke to try to break up the group"

Scrapper "yea... I'm just gonna run in and kill them all, you guys, do what you said...."


 

Posted

If you wanna tank better take the AoE taunt in the pool whatever the name is. I could strip aggro from a surrounded WP tanker with SNAP SHOT from Archery because he didn't have taunt.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
If you wanna tank better take the AoE taunt in the pool whatever the name is. I could strip aggro from a surrounded WP tanker with SNAP SHOT from Archery because he didn't have taunt.
At that point, I would just make a Brute.

You lose out on the better damage from DB, but you fill the role of holding aggro better.

You're still a damage dealer, and instead of using up a power pool you will pretty much just hold aggro by attacking stuff and worse comes to worse, you can grab Taunt.


 

Posted

According to Dechs...


The last case to cover is Rise to the Challenge from Willpower, which is another unique beast like Ice Armor, except in a very bad way. Every other taunt aura has a magnitude of four, this one has a magnitude of three. The real problem is the duration of 1.25 seconds, less than one tenth the duration of the other auras! Keep in mind that duration remaining is part of the threat formula, so this directly affects Willpower's ability to gain and keep aggro.

The saving grace here is that Rise to the Challenge, unlike all other taunt auras, can stack with itself, but not without enhancement. Once you throw some taunt enhancement in here, it can stack up to a magnitude six taunt effect with over a two second duration. The extra magnitude helps to make up for the lack of duration, but you will have to lean more heavily on Gauntlet/Fury and the power Taunt.


But, seriously, if you are trying to hold aggro and tank you'd have an easier time of it as a Tanker or Brute, and with just about any mitigation set other than WP which is not ideal for pure tanking.


 

Posted

This isn't fool proof, but if you run in and open with your AoE (Typhoon is the best option for this as it is 360 deg attack)... your teamate will get less agro then if you start with ST attacks. If they attack something with 0 damage done to them, they're going to draw agro. But if instead their targets have been damaged, it usually takes more then just 1 hit from range to draw it off any melee toon (distance from the target does matter when determining agro)... I actually thing that using this method carefully along with a taunt aura should be enough unless the other toon is using PBAoEs instead of ranged ones.


I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerShrike View Post
But, seriously, if you are trying to hold aggro and tank you'd have an easier time of it as a Tanker or Brute, and with just about any mitigation set other than WP which is not ideal for pure tanking.
A WP Brute that has any kind of decent large AoE attack (SS, FM) or multiple AoEs like DB will have no problems aggroing the majority of a spawn.


 

Posted

They just need to fix the taunt aura in Willpower to match all the other taunt auras in the game.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberRod View Post
They just need to fix the taunt aura in Willpower to match all the other taunt auras in the game.
I asked castle on this a while back and he said it was done intentionally because WP got protection for psionics and knockback protection. Noticed how every set that gets psionic protection has that knockback vulnerability? Well a weaker taunt aura was the trade off for that. To me thats dumb to penalize powersets on things that they need to do their job. It kind of goes back to when tanks used to have single target taunt and everyone took provoke because it worked so much better. It took alot of screaming about it to finally get it changed for tanks back in the earlier issues. Right now this part about the knockback has gone on too long and I dont see them changing it for the powersets or fixing the taunt aura issue. Quite honestly I see them actually fixing gravity control finally before they fix WP taunt aura. In terms of managing it, just tell your friend that if she knocks it back she just bought it and that is how you stop people from scattering stuff you have aggroed or keeps them engaging groups ahead of time.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
I asked castle on this a while back and he said it was done intentionally because WP got protection for psionics and knockback protection. Noticed how every set that gets psionic protection has that knockback vulnerability? Well a weaker taunt aura was the trade off for that. To me thats dumb to penalize powersets on things that they need to do their job. It kind of goes back to when tanks used to have single target taunt and everyone took provoke because it worked so much better. It took alot of screaming about it to finally get it changed for tanks back in the earlier issues. Right now this part about the knockback has gone on too long and I dont see them changing it for the powersets or fixing the taunt aura issue. Quite honestly I see them actually fixing gravity control finally before they fix WP taunt aura. In terms of managing it, just tell your friend that if she knocks it back she just bought it and that is how you stop people from scattering stuff you have aggroed or keeps them engaging groups ahead of time.
Yeah, that's just nonsense there. That's a horrible reason for making their taunt aura less effective. I'm not seeing the correlation. WP gets psi protection so it gets a weak taunt aura? Not making sense.


Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind

OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!

 

Posted

You know, for a while I've decided that the lower duration in RttC isn't as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be. In one of Castle's old posts about taunt mechanics:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle
Taunt is a threat multiplier. The ACT of taunting is what generates threat (it's considered an attack) and the value of that is multiplied by Taunt, AT Mod, AI type, range, mob preferences and several other factors to get the final version.
So, taunting is considered an attack, which is what auras like RttC does on a regular basis. Now, how are attacks calculated? In a different post, Castle writes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle
Not *quite* correct:
Threat:
Tanker, Brute = 4
Scrapper = 3
Kheldian = 2 (3 in Dwarf form)
Stalker, Mastermind = 2
Everyone else = 1

Taunt AT Multiple (which effects the Taunt Duration):
Tanker, Brute, Stalker = 1
Scrapper = 0.75
Kheldians = 0.85
Everyone Else = 0.5

EVerything is multiplied. For damage, a simplified version is:
DMG * TauntDurationRemaining * ThreatMod * AI Preferences * RangeMod.

AI Preferences can be things like "I prefer to attack Scrappers", "I *really* hate Kheldians!", "Kill the healer!", "Attack the last person to attack me!" or any of about 40 or 50 other variables that we can set.

Editted for clarity
The highlighted part is the key. If someone Taunts (or Confronts) an enemy, and their aura pulses on the enemy, the duration used isn't RttC's 1.25s, but Taunt/Confronts much longer one. (RttC also comes with a debuff, which is a threat multplier by itself.) This means that Brutes/Tankers have an advantage, since Taunt is AoE while Confront is single target. I'm not saying this from sheer academics, either. After adjusting my tactics, I rarely have issues holding aggro. If I do, it's likely a Shield Scrapper who got ahead of me. (AAO is silly strong, especially when combined with strong AoEs (like SC) and short fight times.)


[edit: I'm not exactly concerned that Scrappers are worse off in the taunt department with RttC. I don't think Scrappers (or Brutes) should be as strong at threat generation as Tankers.]


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
I asked castle on this a while back and he said it was done intentionally because WP got protection for psionics and knockback protection. Noticed how every set that gets psionic protection has that knockback vulnerability? Well a weaker taunt aura was the trade off for that. To me thats dumb to penalize powersets on things that they need to do their job. It kind of goes back to when tanks used to have single target taunt and everyone took provoke because it worked so much better. It took alot of screaming about it to finally get it changed for tanks back in the earlier issues. Right now this part about the knockback has gone on too long and I dont see them changing it for the powersets or fixing the taunt aura issue. Quite honestly I see them actually fixing gravity control finally before they fix WP taunt aura. In terms of managing it, just tell your friend that if she knocks it back she just bought it and that is how you stop people from scattering stuff you have aggroed or keeps them engaging groups ahead of time.

Hmm. Doesn't Elec Armour get Psi and KB? What's it's taunt aura duration look like? Just wondering.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madadh View Post
Hmm. Doesn't Elec Armour get Psi and KB? What's it's taunt aura duration look like? Just wondering.
Brute and Tanker Lightning Field has the standard 13.6s, while Scrapper version has none.

Keep in mind Grounded only works while on the ground and only provides knockback protection, not protection and resistance like other powers (ie: Unyielding, Practiced Brawler, etc). Protection keeps you on your feet until the mag is exceeded (rare, but possible). Knockback resistance (in all status protection powers that have it, afaik) reduces the incoming mag to 0, effectively making only unresistible knockbacks penetrate (even rarer).


[edit: Not saying this does/doesn't justify the taunt duration, just stating the facts of what Elec has.]


 

Posted

I think the moral of the story is to reroll as a Brute.

Which tends to be the moral of a lot of stories these days.


Moonlighter

50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD

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