Mercs is the worst MM set. Avoid like the plague
To be fair, you have to ask yourself what do you want from your MM first. Most people would go for bots/traps for GM/AV/or just general tough foes soloing. If you want tankermind, bots/ff is not bad an option either.
I have a demons/therm that is built for heal/buff/debuff, in which debuff is mainly in the form of -res and -regen. The pets are almost at res cap with psi at about 40% or so.
I have a zombies/dark that is built for an insane amount of -tohit, and then heal and -regen. It can kill Hero 1 and the other vanguard looking guy together in one of the Alpha missions. But the lower tier zombers do need constant care as they die easily. (though I needed to use a few blue as there was a -end debuff on me).
I have a thugs/poison, which I don't know what to do with it anymore (but it can tank Stateman for as long as it take in a LRSF).
I have heard /storm is such a good fun to play. But I have never tried it once.
If you just want something fun and something to put a smile on your face, pick any.
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I'd argue Ninjas are worse due to paper-thin defense. At least the Mercs have a decent amount of burst damage.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
Mercs is the worst MM set. Avoid like the plague
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Originally Posted by issen
at least the mercs have a decent amount of burst damage.
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wut?
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I think he means that Mercs can withstand burst damage
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Originally Posted by Dz131
wut?
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Hi,
thanks for the answers.
I am looking for a beginning char to play. I dont know which kind it should be. (It should make dmg, I shouldn't die to often or best never - the pets can be recasted - I can only use awaken ^^, atm I play mostly alone as a Thugs/Pain MM)
I like the Pain Domination because you have healing, debuffs(-def and -res) and buffs (Painbringer, aso).
The necro pets are Melee-Melee-Ranged.
The mercs pets are Ranged-Ranged-Ranged.
The Ninja pets are Melee-Melee-Melee. (Stalker)
I dont like the bots, so I want to play something else. And the bots seems more like a living fortress to me then dmg maker. (with 2 protector bots)
It would be great if the pet line has a mixed attack type (melee/ranged). K the mcers have only ranged but that wouldnt hold me off 
greetings
Anaxibia
Merc's damage is ok. It depends on your secondary and the situation, sometimes Merc can out-damage Ninja and Necro simply because the pets don't die as often. If the situation is tough and zombies/ninjas run in, you lose out on a lot of dps due to their fast deaths.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Hi,
I would be also open to any other pet line.
The Thugs has the disadvantage that you have without the enforcer no defense for your Thugs(And the Artonist is dying like a fly. He dies often^^). But the Enforcer has the leadership line with +defense for all and so you have with 2 of them around 20-25% defense of all dmg types.
Ninjas has no defense (only more strength) but all others seems to have defense.
What I have read is that the demons had mostly the best AI of all pet lines.
greetings
Anaxibia
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Originally Posted by Anaxibia
Hi,
I would be also open to any other pet line. The Thugs has the disadvantage that you have without the enforcer no defense for your Thugs(And the Artonist is dying like a fly. He dies often^^). But the Enforcer has the leadership line with +defense for all and so you have with 2 of them around 20-25% defense of all dmg types. Ninjas has no defense (only more strength) but all others seems to have defense. What I have read is that the demons had mostly the best AI of all pet lines. greetings Anaxibia |
1. Thug is still doing very good damage without Arsonist. Arsonist is just a minion pet. Don't get too attached to him. His fire bomb may scatter the mob too much. Enforcer is the BEST Lieut pet in the game. They do very good cone damage and both of them survive well. Thug minion's lack of defense can be made up by your secondary.
2. Ninja has defense. It's just not high enough. And since they have almost no resistance (only Oni has some), they get one-shotted easily. Another problem is ninjas go melee and most of the Thugs stay at range.
3. Demons, as I can tell, are better designed in terms of pet behavior. You can tell the dev have learned their mistakes from Oni (at least in my opinion). Both Oni and Demon Prince are dominator-type with a mix if control, range, and melee. However, Prince's role is more defined when he goes melee because he has Chilling Embrace (pbaoe) that debuffs a lot of recharge and Frozen Aura for aoe damage. Oni has a cone and cone attack sucks when you go melee. Prince also cycles all of his attacks reguarly when they are recharged; whereas Oni tends to cycle Ring of Fire more than Fire Blast and tends to skip fire swords. Fire Blast is Oni's best range attack and it only has 4s recharge. Basically, Demon pets do well both at range and at melee distance. The demon minions do very good range damage too.
Demon has Smashing, Lethal and Fire resistance. These 3 are what I consider "Achille's Heel" damage type for mastermind because the most and powerful enemy group is Longbow who do mostly lethal and fire aoe damage. It is not uncommon to see genins/zombies melt in the first 10s when Flamethrower shoots firebomb/ignite and flamethrower. Circle of Thorn lieut pets also deal a lot of fire damage which can melt your ninja/zombies.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Hi,
does it make a difference that I play as a hero MM?
Is there a chance that all other pet line behavior's will be redesigned?
I am not attached to the Artonist but he dies the most and that sucks^^. I think this will change as soon as i get the second Enforcer and the Bruiser (which I read that he has a behavior problem)
So open for choose are:
Mercenaries (I also heard that they make great dmg because of CC and the commando is a real bad boy 
- only ranged attackers)
Demons (seems like a good option - melee/ranged attackers)
Robot (has higher dmg and great defense - melee/ranged attackers)
Necromancy (has the the mix I like in pets melee/ranged) - maybe out of choice too
The secondary Set is always Pain Domination because I love this set.
So in the end I should choose between demons or bots. (For me Thugs are out because I have already one. Ninjas are out too.) The set should be somehting like they make dmg like hell, dont need to recast any minute new pets and are great for soloing and groups. But i think that depends mostly on me^^.
greetings
Anaxibia
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I wish to correct this, Demons have smashing, lethal, fire, cold, and toxic resistances (fire, cold, and toxic resistances varying in strength based on the demon). The Demon Prince has a weaker resistance to these damage types, but also has defense. OH, if you do make a demon mastermind, keep a close eye on the gargoyles. After the tier 9 upgrade, the gargoyles tend to use their AoE's a little too well. They get most of the aggro. Thank the devs that the Demon Prince has a lot of slows |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Demon has Smashing, Lethal and Fire resistance.
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The earlier "avoid like the plague" is definitely overstating it, but I do want to dissuade you from any notion the the CC is a reason to opt Mercenaries (assuming by CC you mean Crowd Control). Their CC is basically useless - long recharge, and the AI is not at all intelligent about using it - it'll just as happily throw both its mezzes against a single half dead minion as it will a full spawn (and once it does it'll be a while before it can try again).|
Originally Posted by Anaxibia
Mercenaries (I also heard that they make great dmg because of CC and the commando is a real bad boy
- only ranged attackers) |
That said, although the set definitely has issues, Mercs still does fine - it's a bit subpar, but not an outright 'avoid' set.
But Demons or Necro seem to be the ones that fit what you're after the most, with the range/melee mix. Either one works nicely - I'd just pick the one you like the theme of most, demons or undead?
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I finally paid more attention to Demon pets. When I made my first demon/ta, I never really looked at their details. |
Originally Posted by Delmain
I wish to correct this, Demons have smashing, lethal, fire, cold, and toxic resistances (fire, cold, and toxic resistances varying in strength based on the demon). The Demon Prince has a weaker resistance to these damage types, but also has defense. OH, if you do make a demon mastermind, keep a close eye on the gargoyles. After the tier 9 upgrade, the gargoyles tend to use their AoE's a little too well. They get most of the aggro. Thank the devs that the Demon Prince has a lot of slows
. |
Oh my, the two lieut demon pets are so good! One has awesome resistance shield and heal and one has so much resistance debuffs. Both of them have aoe attacks.
What does Spec-Ops have? A mini version of Snipe that does 3x less damage than a true snipe and two aoe control powers that are used randomly and ZERO aoe damage.
The flash bang from the enemy Spec-Ops debuff tohit by like 30-40%+!!! It feels like a "typo" but if you want to debuff, debuff hard. None of the aoe debuffs feel strong enough. Nothing is more stupid than using tear gas on the last minion who is running away.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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As a general point, one thing to keep in mind when comparing different MM sets is that the different tiers do not always have the same role within different sets.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Oh my, the two lieut demon pets are so good! One has awesome resistance shield and heal and one has so much resistance debuffs. Both of them have aoe attacks.
What does Spec-Ops have? A mini version of Snipe that does 3x less damage than a true snipe and two aoe control powers that are used randomly and ZERO aoe damage. |
Yes, the Demon Lts have a lot AoE powers and some decent heals/debuffs and are, on a per pet basis a LOT better than the Spec Ops. However, the reason for this is that the Demon Prince is relatively low damage for a Boss pet being mostly focused on control as opposed to damage (i.e. he's closer to the Lich than the Commando).
When comparing pets sets I find it best to compare Lts + Boss rather than comparing individual tiers (the minion pets are similar enough that I'm ok comparing them individually). In the Mercs versus Demons comparison the Spec Ops should really be compared to the Demon Prince while the Commando gets compared to the Demon Lts.
Now I think that Mercenaries still come off worse in that comparison, but I think it's a more valid comparison.
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Yes, I understand you should compare the whole set but I am just amazed by how effective those two lieut demons are. They buff and debuff while providing "sizable" aoe and ST damage. The one with melee claws do good damage. I dare say if we look at the numbers, they can out-damage Spec-Ops. And if that happens, then Spec-Ops is truly the bottom of the barrel. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
As a general point, one thing to keep in mind when comparing different MM sets is that the different tiers do not always have the same role within different sets.
Yes, the Demon Lts have a lot AoE powers and some decent heals/debuffs and are, on a per pet basis a LOT better than the Spec Ops. However, the reason for this is that the Demon Prince is relatively low damage for a Boss pet being mostly focused on control as opposed to damage (i.e. he's closer to the Lich than the Commando). |
As for Demon Prince, oh... he is not doing "low" damage at all. He may seem "slow" but the base damage for his attacks are pretty high and he is effective by just being in the middle of the crowd with his chilling embrace on.
Demon Prince controls well because he actually cycles every attack when they are recharged. He may not use it right away but he definitely uses Block of Ice often. Oni, on the other hand, has different modes. When Oni draws his sword, he may not use Char or Ring of Fire. I've tested this so many times.
Lich, with the least damage potential, cycles every power almost immediately. His damage isn't as low as it seems. He uses dark blast all the time. Oni has a bad habit of not using Fire Blast with two upgrades.
As a general rule, each tier should excel at something and Spec-Ops doesn't excel in any category. I can argue that Jounins control better than Spec-Ops when it matters. Their Soaring and Golden Dragonfly has knockup and downs (which is handy against single boss) and they have caltrops to fear the mobs away and they have small cone confuse that recharge just as fast as Spec-Ops aoe controls. The two aoe controls only seem to matter in the first 10s of the fight because they use it right away in the first fight....
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Hi,
i have made a build can someone check it plz.
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...A8FA031D0B1AB2
its without any enhances or slotting because i dont know which one and how many I need.
Ahh this should be a tanking MM. The pets should do the dmg and I take the dmg.
greetings
Anaxibia
Hi,
no one want to comment the build?
greetings
Anaxibia
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What's to comment on? You have no slots or IOs placed. You've picked powers and there's not much anyone can say about that. Might wanna head to the Builds forum and ask there.
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Originally Posted by Anaxibia
Hi,
no one want to comment the build? greetings Anaxibia |
I would like to chime in and ask you to consider Time Manipulation to pair up with your pets.
Time Manip has: Heals, Slows (plenty of them), -Resistance, -Defense, -Tohit, +Defense, +Resistance (to slows which is more helpful than you might think), +Tohit, +Recharge, +Damage, +Recovery, Holds.
Almost all of your powers are AoE which means that you can wade right into melee with your pets. You throw down your AoE heals/buffs/debuffs, stack your single targets on those needing it, and watch your pets go to town.
With Time Manipulation, I very rarely see my pets die while solo unless one of them gets dumb and runs off or gets 1-shotted. On large teams, my pets do die more often but still not too much.
I'd also like to put a vote in for Ninjas. Properly supported, they do an incredible amount of damage in a short time. And, each tier has its own little tricks beyond simple DPS.
Anyways, that's my 2 cents.
@ Dr Gemini
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| �If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
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WHAT? |
Originally Posted by Anaxibia
I dont like the bots, so I want to play something else. And the bots seems more like a living fortress to me then dmg maker. (with 2 protector bots)
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There is only ONE MM SET in the whole World, errr, Universe, that let you say "WOOOOOOOAHHHHHLOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!" once you hit Level 32 and this is Robots!
I think Bots are a little slow in the beginnig, even when you get the Fat One with 26 you are not really impressed - but then comes Level 32 and you get their 2nd Upgrade
A Light Show, Burning, Terror, POWER, AoE, everything! No other set impressed me so much.
Sacrificing Minions: Is there any problem it CAN�T solve?
Skelas Homepage
Agreed, haha, Bots/Traps ruined me for any other MMs. I even tried a Thugs and was disappointed.
Demons/thermal is, for me at least, fully as awesome as robots/traps, with a distinctly different feel. And my demons guy is nicely steamrollering his way through First Ward missions that are deeply unpleasant for my other soloing characters, and at a higher difficulty level to boot.
That said, I am very much looking forward to working up a new bots/traps character as well, because it's such a just plain fun combo.
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Meh, bots bore me, even post-32. The burn patches were nice and all, but still boring. Demons, however, became really awesome at 32 for me.
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Originally Posted by Skela_EU
WHAT?
There is only ONE MM SET in the whole World, errr, Universe, that let you say "WOOOOOOOAHHHHHLOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!" once you hit Level 32 and this is Robots! I think Bots are a little slow in the beginnig, even when you get the Fat One with 26 you are not really impressed - but then comes Level 32 and you get their 2nd Upgrade A Light Show, Burning, Terror, POWER, AoE, everything! No other set impressed me so much. |
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Demons, as they are, are ugly.
Nobody who has style would play Demons, as they are. It is a tragedy! They could have send in all these nice looking Demons, think only about a Succubus.
But what did we get? Dead Cow Face everywhere and they ... make a noise.
Sacrificing Minions: Is there any problem it CAN�T solve?
Skelas Homepage
Hi,
I have a problem.
I dont know which primary Set i should take. I am tending between Mercernaries, Ninjas and Necro but i am tending most to Mercs.
As secondary set I want to take Pain Domination.
But i dont know which one and if the secondary set is really ok.
I am playing already a Thugs/Pain and I like it.
greetings
Anaxibia