incomplete idea: Items

Righty, I havent thought this through completely but thought I'd post up my thoughts so far and see if there are any opinions to make it workable/useful.

Items:

You've defeated Doctor Destruction and literal beat the nanites out of him but these nanites are dangerous so you've enlisted the aid of Portal corp to create a container (and collector) for the nanites. Now, they're sitting on your Supergroup shelf and they look pretty. Suddenly Bob the barbaric Beast from Beyond the bed and Bath turns up and he's learned a new trick since your last encounter. He's completely immune to bullets and his insulating armour has made him immune to your energy punches. if only there were a way to fight him with some other tool at your disposal. hmmm, what if you injected yourself with the nanites, then you'd have the Doctor's power and you could knock seven shades out of Bob, then put the nanites back before anyone knows they're gone.

Thats pretty much it. taking an item from a defeated enemy, or enemy group, and putting it to use to add a bit of variance to your toon. Blaster a bit light on defense? How about hotwiring the forcefield generator from the Sky Raiders into your tech-based power pack and have it generate a lower powered more localised field just around you?

Some rules for items:

at levels 12 , 26, 35 and 50 you get the option to forego a power selection and instead invest in an item slot. You can only ever have a maximum of 4 item slots.

Items can only be used if they are of the same origin as the user (a bit like enhancements)

Items are costume pieces. eg: if you equip the headband of mystical nastiness that you got from the circle of thorns, then your toon has the headband added to their costume. Only the bravest will wear the red undies of externality and imperviousness...

Items are crafted (bought) using salvage but do not require a recipe. (1 rare, 1 uncommon + 2 common, preferably from the ones that dont have much current market value like spirit thorn)

Items have powers but are less powerful than their powerset equivalents. Healing aura from the bio-sympathetic spoo slime stored in a bottle is not as effective as healing from Harry Healz, Medical Master extraordinaire.

Items are slottable but only with SOs of the same origin or generic IOs (accuracy, etc) and only to a maximum level of effectiveness (I was think max lvl 30 SO/IO but others may think otherwise). Once an item is removed from its item slot and put back on the shelf any enhancements are lost (consumed by the item?).

Item "bays" are slottable, up to a maximum of 6 the same as regular powers.

A player must have storage for items not in use. Items take up 5 Salvage slots and cannot be stored in the auction house. SG storage can be used (the vault perhaps? gives access to either the SG vault or the toon vault, select on click)

Items have limited uses, each time an item is attached/detached a counter is incremented. once it hits X number the item breaks apart.

Items cannot be sold in AH (stops storage there). But can be traded if they are not currently activated. The number of charges left before uselessness would be described as a condition (new, used, worn, damaged) and an actual number (randomly generated with variance around a core figure) would never be shown to a player.

An item can be created based on a list of options available to a toon based on the accomplishment/achievement/defeats/gladiator badges held by that toon.

so, using the rules above.

Joe the Tank (Tech origin, Super strength / Invul ) hits level 12 and instead of selecting a power opts to reserve a space for an item slot.

However, Joe has only playe din Architect Entertainment up to now and those defeats dont count toward badges (well, the items arent real so you cant really have an item based on a hologram...ok, you can, but for now lets assume not) so joe decides to take the loading screen's advice and heads off to go hunt. kill skuls. which he does to great effect in perez park earning himself the Bonecrusher badge. Delighted, Joe rushes back to get to a city info terminal to see what he needs to make an item. Unfortunately, the Skulls are a magic based group so the tech based offerings are quite meagre (a baseball bat with a neon stripe to - unconvincingly -make it look like its hovering) . Better look for a tech based enemy group... like those clockwork across the road... off he goes smashing and pulverising, joining a team that happens to be doing a clockwork arc and prefers clockwork based newspaper missions.

At 15th level, the gearsmasher badge is awarded! Time to check the info terminal.

clockwork are mechanical so mechanical powers would be suitable. gearsmasher involves clockwork gears so perhaps the following could be a possibility:

Gears: by suspending the gear components in a magnetic field their allegiance can be overwritten and the gears themselves stored until required. once activated 1 clockwork gear for every 10 levels of the user will be summoned. gears will be 3 levels lower than the user. Once summoned the gears will attack any enemies nearby using melee attacks only.

Energy Transfer: Clockwork are known for their ability to drain endurance from a toon. This power will allow the user to drain endurance from an enemy and transfer some of that drained energy to himself.

Joe decides he likes the thought of Energy Transfer so he selects that power. next is the choice of what form the item is to take.

option 2: Function

Ranged or Melee or Field or build up

Field would be an aura like lightning field that drains end but has an end cost to maintain (Toggle)

Build up would be like the Electric armour buildup but without the +to hit or + damage. It would instead add a End Drain compponent to all other attacks for a period of time (Click)

all options drain the same amount of endurance per hit but there is a difference in the efficiency of conversion (ranged drains 20 end and gives 10 to the user , melee drains 20 and gives the user 13 field returns 6 and build up returns 5)

Joe opts for Melee:

option 3: Form:

Gloves: the ED component is built into a pair of gloves.
Shoulder pads
Boots

Joe opts for Gloves and equips the item. He immediately gets a new power, an open palm punch that touches the enemy with the ED crystal in the palm of the hand. However, the blue glow doesnt suit Joe's costume so he heads to the tailor and , for a small fee, has the item changed to glow red instead.

Joe slots the item slot with 4 empty slots and then puts in 2 x lvl 17 accuracy and 2x endurance modification.

These can be replaced and swapped as Joe sees fit but they never outlevel or fade.

Later, Joe has slotted his Stamina power enough that he no longer needs an End drain attack so he decides to replace the item with another. The 2xend mod and 2x accuracy Enhancements are lost. the glove costume piece is taken away and the item is placed into his inventory taking up 5 salvage slots. Joe can delete the item (gone for good), join a SG and place it in storage, place it in his bank (5 slots) or trade it to another player (the category would be "used" even though it was only removed once).

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some notes:

should the customising be done at a tailor or at time of creation? Should the toon have to pay to customise per costume slot?

The "life" of an item should be limited. just how limited though, I dont know. I would think an average of 10 points +/- 4 before an item is deemed unusable. or perhaps that is too generous and it should be 5 points + (1-4) or (5 +/- 2)

Should items be tradable? if not, will SGs just become a dumping ground? of course, personal storage areas or personal bases (apartments) would help with this.

What restrictions, if any, should be placed on what abilities are available through an item?

Should all items be given a "long" recharge time to make them inherently worse than "inherent" powers?

Should item slots be counted across "builds" or should each build have to slot its own items?

During a respec, I would prefer if it counts as "unequipping" an item with the loss of enhancements that it entails. Should the counter be incremented as well?

the main idea behind items is to
a: give flexibility but not replace powerset options
b: allow a toon to dabble in something that would otherwise be off limits to them (a tank taking a ranged attack) that helps soloing and group play but doesnt replace the benefit of teaming up.
c: a use for salvage for players that dont want to take part in the Invention system (ok, its still close but at elast its more grounded in the toon's experience and character).
d: Give toons a bit more visible individuality and the form vs function argument. yes the boots that give the bonus defense is a better fit but the gold blast visor that increases accuracy just looks so cool!

I havent had a chance to look at all of the enemy groups but briefly (to get a taste):

Skulls: Magic based group.
items would give: Dark powers

Hellions: Magic
items would give: Fire based powers

Clockwork: Tech
items would give: Endurance drain / boost powers, summoning (Gears)

alternatively, the powers coul dbe based on the badges:

Gearsmasher gives a tech based clockwork item or summon gears.
Clockstopper gives access to a summon sprocket power or a melee power (like babbage, perhaps a weapon based power involving a clockwork arm as a club?)
Knight Errant gives the option of a piece of armour to increase defense or a self heal?

Should badges give power options for all origins (differing for each origin with more powerful options being given to toons with an origin matching the faction?) eg: gearsmasher End Drain for tech > End Drain for Science > End Drain for Magic

perhaps something along the lines of:
............................Technology
...............Science.......................Natur al
.........................Magic........Mutant

Each space removed from the faction origin = -1 step in power:

eg: a science toon picking up a tech faction item => power level = -1
a magic toon picking up the same item ==> power level = -2
a Mutation toon picking up a CoT item ==> -1

This would give more options and while making some badges more attractive would not remove all benefits of other origin faction badges.

Anyway, as I said, its not a fully baked idea but hopefully some thoughts and opinions could help flesh it ou ta bit. ideas for faction rewards in both form and function would be welcome too

No, this is stupid. Gaining special powers from defeating enemies or completing mission arcs is why temporary powers exist, and City of Heroes does NOT need to be an item-based game.

I'm in nominal agreement with MondoCool.

I play CoH because it is NOT a "corpse-looting" game. Yes, we get recipe drops off of defeated foes that will enhance our character, but those drops can come from any enemy of the appropriate level.

Also, with corpse-looting will come "Bring me X number of Y item that only drops 1% of the time from a very specific enemy that only spawns a certain time of day" missions. I would wager that 99% of the players of CoH do NOT want missions like that to start cropping up. If we DID want missions like that, we'd be playing a game that has them already. (Interestingly enough, most of the players of games like that I've talked to don't like those missions either)

This is City of Heroes, not City of Lewtcraft.

And I, amongst others, LIKE it that way.

/Unsigned

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

hmmm, apart from the hostile tone I can see your points. However I think you've misinterpreted what I posted.

1. its not "lewt", you dont loot corpses. You dont have to do anything beyond the badge system that is already in the game.

2. it doesnt make the game "item based". a toon can have a maxium of 4 items at any one time and these items are lower powered than powerset powers. the ONLY benefit is versatility.

3. the costume parts would be customisable to give the player as much choice as possible while still having the costume part have an effect in game that doesnt break the atmosphere (naked person pulling out an assault rifle from thin air when they are natural origin?)

4. how would this give rise to "bring me X number of Y" missions? you already get badges for defeats and accomplishments, this doesnt require anything more than is currently in the game. badge + salvage, which is already dropped by enemies of all types. The only, and I do mean only, change is that your costume piece is tied into the power which is also based on its origin (faction/badge). You already get costume pieces, you already get temporary powers, you already choose powers at those levels. the toon doesnt actually get ANYTHING other than the option of slightly more versatility than the power pools.

@MondoCool : calm down ffs. I didnt threaten your family or religious beliefs, I suggested something for an online game.

It's an interesting idea, that could indeed increase the variety of build differences.

However.

I don't like that it would modify your costume. Roleplaying special artifacts is all well and good, but having to wear something silly just because you liked the power? Nuh uh.

Also, if you're giving up a power selection for what amounts as a temp power, that temp power needs to have infinite uses. Your idea as it stands now (admittedly, I skimmed past the last couple paragraphs after I read the first few) would be largely ignored, in my opinion, by the player base.

/no thanks

Our current drop system is great the way it is and the taylor is already there to make you look "special".

As far as I'm concerned, the fewer the "items" in the game, the better it is overall. One of the primary reasons why the game started off with no loot was exactly because the hypothetical situation you describe in your original post is very, very specific. In a sword and sorcery game, you can be expected to pick up items from the ground and use them. In a super hero game... That doesn't really work. Super heroes are far, FAR too broad a term and far too many of them just don't make sense to cart items around. Most of them don't even have pockets.

Granted, someone like Batman or the Punisher might make sense to snag an item off a defeated criminal, research it and use it, or make his own item just like it, that much I admit. But then you have characters like, say, Superman. The guy doesn't even have a utility belt. His powers are many and varied, but none of them come from the stuff he carries. He doesn't have goggles of x-ray vision or Mentos of frost breath, right? Or how about someone like the Silver Surfer? He doesn't even have clothes. All he has is a surf board and a Ken doll physique. All of his abilities come from the Power Cosmic.

Yes, granted, we have temporary powers now. And I hate the lot of them. I liked the game back in the day when those disappeared when you finished the mission that gave them to you or just took too long. Personally, I'm not a fan of Inventions temporary powers and I would DEFINITELY not like to see that concept expanded to include even more superfluous powers.

When it comes to character powers, I want those to be restricted to what I take from the powers system. Powersets, power pools, inherent powers and the slots we put in them. I don't want to see us get our powers from happenstance. I want my characters' powers to reflect the concept I have for them, not the luck of the draw as to what dropped on that particular one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

More to the point:

A guy who can throw a tank, and survive a direct hit from a Stinger missile.....has no reason to put on some headband to be a little tougher.

It's the genre of the game. When's the last time you saw Spider-Man pick up a defeated gang member's pistol and use it? When's the last time you saw The Hulk put on a kimono because it would make him jump farther?

Collecting items to use from defeated enemies just doesn't make sense in this genre of game. You're a superhero, you don't need to collect crap to get stronger, you are already as strong as you need to be.

I think I suggested something similar months ago and had the same response. Something like an extra ring, necklace, and bracelet slot.

Something like this I dont think would be a game breaker if it meets the following criteria:
1. There is an option to NOT visibly display the item.
2. The item gives a very minimal buff to the player and/or minor power. Or maybe just fluff - like click the "rainbow ring" and a rainbow emanates from your position.
3. The item has no impact on the drop rates of other items such as
salvage, recipes and enhancements.

The items, in essence, would be very weak versions of the incarnate powers. I wouldnt have a problem with this, although you could make the argument that there are a lot of other things that the Devs should prioritize first - like more content.

What your suggesting is actually already in the game. We call them Inventions though. I'm being serious.

Way back when Jack was still Statesman he was working forever on the much touted, highly anticipated skill system. This skill system was to augment our natural abilities and give us some leeway in broadening our roles. Things like Spy gear, Computer Hacking, Magic potions and the like.
From what I recall, the speculation was the skill system would work like a combination of enhancements and temp powers. Someone that focused on the Barter skill for example would get discounts at the tailor and stores.

He worked on the skill system for well over a year and half before finally realizing it just wouldn't work in this game. So it was altered and reimaged for another year+ then finally.
Finally, the Invention system was announced. Much to the shock of the forums. We had never heard of this Invention system! What happened to the lauded Skill system?
So Jack came down from on high to tell us the tale of woe. How he was unable to properly balance the skills for all AT's and thus it was scrapped for the simpler to use and code IO's.

Just FYI.