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The invention system improved the game. Your idea doesn't. In fact you admit that players that chose to use your suggested items would be gimping their builds by sacrificing up to 4 power choices.|
Originally Posted by Evangel
Enhancements were in the game already and yet we got the invention system. Enhancement slots were in the game and yet we got the option of adding enhancement storage to supergroup bases. Inspirations were in teh game and yet we go tthe ability to combine three inspirations into another one that we found more useful. its been done before. there is precedent.
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| You can only slot 4 items. total. maximum and to do that you sacrifice 4 power choices at a range of levels. |
Theres no reason to create an unnecessarily complicated feature when they could be added as new temp powers
If you had suggested that we get some more variety in temp powers and the ability to add charges by crafting more of them, I might have gone along with it.
Your idea here though:
1) Is unnecessarily complicated.
2) Actually PUNISHES players who choose to use it by forcing them to sacrifice power choices to use it.
3) Would require the devs to spend time coding and programming something that a large percentage of the players will ignore because of point 2.
4) Can already be done using temp powers, which DO NOT force you to give up power choices to use.
5) Completely discards one of this games biggest selling points. Namely the fact that your character's abilities and appearance have nothing to do with each other.
You admitted yourself that the worst that can happen is everyone ignores it, right?
But, if everyone ignores it that is a significant amount of development time completely wasted. Time that could have been used on features people would appreciate and use.
I'm sure you're peeved because no one thinks your idea is as good as you think it is. But the simple fact remains that this is a bad idea that does absolutely nothing to improve the game.
If people want to use items, they can A) Roleplay their characters' powers as coming from said items, or B) use temp powers. Doing it that way doesn't force them to give up power choices.
Doing it your way, they will have to give up power choices that may completely cripple their character to not have. And they will have to deal with items appearing on their character that they may not want there.
The appearance of people's characters is important to them. Just look at how pissed a bunch of people are getting about costume pieces and auras being unlocked through the Incarnate system. Here, you're expecting them to defeat X number of enemies to unlock an item that adds things to their costume against their will, AND makes them give up power picks to do it?
And you think people are going to LIKE this?
I know, I know: "If they don't like it, they don't have to use it."
I already addressed that. New feature everyone hates and refuses to use = wasted development time.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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So, power customization. Choosing your own effect for the power? | you create a power slot to equip an item, you then , based on a badge you have earned, choose an item to research/invent/find/whatever excuse you want for it, you then choose the effect, look, feel of the item and power. |
Sounds suspiciously like an attempt at getting tankmagery added to the game. If it can be anything you want it to be, that is EXACTLY what it will be used for, and you should know that by now. Give people the option for power, they WILL abuse it. Look what happened with AE. "Write my own stories? Screw THAT, I'm gonna make a PL farm!"
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| You can only slot 4 items. total. maximum and to do that you sacrifice 4 power choices at a range of levels. |
No one, and i mean NO ONE is going to be willing to sacrifice their scrapper's tier 9 attack, mez protection and self heal to use some stuff that is no more than glorified temp powers.
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| If players dont want to be bothered with an item system, then why are temp powers being actively traded in game? |
Luck of the Gambler +Recharge goes for 100-300 million influence.
The most EXPENSIVE temp power is maybe 100k.
If temp powers were as popular as you claim, their prices would be significantly higher.
Simple logic: Temp powers exist. They can be gotten extremely cheaply on the market.
There is no shortage of temp powers available to buy.
If people WANTED these temp powers, they wouldn't be selling them dirt cheap like that.
People routinely complain that they are getting too many temp power drops and they are taking up space in their inventory. And they unload the ones they don't delete for dirt cheap, because no one wants them enough to pay more for them.
All of that tells me that people don't want to be bothered with an item system in the game. You bring up "actively traded temp powers" in an attempt to bolster your argument. What you did was point out that temp powers are unloaded dirt cheap because no one wants them.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Evangel, you WILL NOT make me choose which powers I have to give up to get some other half brained power. This is NOT the way CoH is meant to be played nor what the players want. That is all I have to say for now other then I agree with what the others have said against your idea.
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Of course it's an attempt at tankmagery. The OP gave that away right away with this explanation.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
So, power customization. Choosing your own effect for the power?
Sounds suspiciously like an attempt at getting tankmagery added to the game. If it can be anything you want it to be, that is EXACTLY what it will be used for, and you should know that by now. Give people the option for power, they WILL abuse it. Look what happened with AE. "Write my own stories? Screw THAT, I'm gonna make a PL farm!" |
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Items are slottable but only with SOs of the same origin or generic IOs (accuracy, etc) and only to a maximum level of effectiveness (I was think max lvl 30 SO/IO but others may think otherwise). Once an item is removed from its item slot and put back on the shelf any enhancements are lost (consumed by the item?). Item "bays" are slottable, up to a maximum of 6 the same as regular powers. |
Oh and I may be wrong about this but don't people that do a lot of exemping put a self imposed level cap on the enhancements they slot of 25 or 30?
As far as the "actively traded temp powers" are an indication that people would want an item system added to the game.
Here are your "actively traded temp powers":
- Temp Power/ # for sale/ # of bids/ Highest price in last 5
Backup Radio/ 41 / 0 / 100,000
Envenomed Dagger / 109 / 0 / 50
Ethereal Shift / 107 / 4 / 5,000
Gabriel's Hammer / 494 / 0 / 10
Hand Grenades / 1036 / 0 / 100
Kinetic Dampener / 24 / 0 / 50,000
Med Pack / 89 / 0 / 5,000
Recovery Serum / 877 / 0 / 5,555
Plasmatic Taser / 537 / 0 / 1,000
Resuscitator / 84 / 0 / 1,000
Revolver / 729 / 0/ 10,000
Smoke Flash / 44 / 0 / 1,111
St. Louis Slammer / 577 / 0/ 1,111
Stun Grenades / 432 / 0 / 1,500
Now, you can call that "actively traded" if you want.
To me, it looks like a bunch of people trying to unload crap that no one wants to buy.
If you were trying to use the popularity of temp powers to prove that people would want your item system, well these numbers (taken straight from the market about 2 hours ago) prove that theory to be patently false.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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and yet there are players who feel just as strongly opposed to temp opwers and would prefer a temp power to have some sort of customisation to make it more fitting to their character. One poster on this thread already stated their hatred of temps and patron power pools because of the lack of control they have over their backstory , appearance and name. Old adage of cant please all of the people comes to mind.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
If you had suggested that we get some more variety in temp powers and the ability to add charges by crafting more of them, I might have gone along with it.
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Your idea here though: 1) Is unnecessarily complicated. |
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| 2) Actually PUNISHES players who choose to use it by forcing them to sacrifice power choices to use it. |
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| 3) Would require the devs to spend time coding and programming something that a large percentage of the players will ignore because of point 2. |
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| 4) Can already be done using temp powers, which DO NOT force you to give up power choices to use. |
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| 5) Completely discards one of this games biggest selling points. Namely the fact that your character's abilities and appearance have nothing to do with each other. |
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You admitted yourself that the worst that can happen is everyone ignores it, right? But, if everyone ignores it that is a significant amount of development time completely wasted. Time that could have been used on features people would appreciate and use. |
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| I'm sure you're peeved because no one thinks your idea is as good as you think it is. But the simple fact remains that this is a bad idea that does absolutely nothing to improve the game. |
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| If people want to use items, they can A) Roleplay their characters' powers as coming from said items, or B) use temp powers. Doing it that way doesn't force them to give up power choices. |
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| Doing it your way, they will have to give up power choices that may completely cripple their character to not have. And they will have to deal with items appearing on their character that they may not want there. |
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| The appearance of people's characters is important to them. Just look at how pissed a bunch of people are getting about costume pieces and auras being unlocked through the Incarnate system. Here, you're expecting them to defeat X number of enemies to unlock an item that adds things to their costume against their will, AND makes them give up power picks to do it? |
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| And you think people are going to LIKE this? |
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I know, I know: "If they don't like it, they don't have to use it." I already addressed that. New feature everyone hates and refuses to use = wasted development time. |
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hence the limits on what can be slotted into it and the suggestion that the item is LESS powerful than a pwoerset power. the trade off is diversity and versatility. I have in no way condoned the idea of having a tank that can 1 shot a lieutenant from a distance nad it should be obvious from the multiple times I have suggested balance of power and capping of abilities that I do not support. Also, while I am not a fan of AE myself, there are plenty of players that have not abused the system and have produced some very enjoyable content. By your argument, AE should never have been introduced because players abused it. yes some players will min max, yes some players will attempt to manipulate a system to get an unfair advantage that goes against the spirit of the system itself. The only way to stop this is to ensure the system is implemented as fairly as possible and nailed down as tightly as possible from the outset. Sidekicking was abused to powerlevel toons, think how abused the current system of teaming would have been if they hadnt altered the XP earned to compensate for the actual level of the player earning it. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
So, power customization. Choosing your own effect for the power?
Sounds suspiciously like an attempt at getting tankmagery added to the game. If it can be anything you want it to be, that is EXACTLY what it will be used for, and you should know that by now. Give people the option for power, they WILL abuse it. Look what happened with AE. "Write my own stories? Screw THAT, I'm gonna make a PL farm!" |
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| This is a HUGE problem. I have to SACRIFICE power choices to use this crap? What powers? I si random, or do I choose the powers I give up. |
you dont sacrifice a power choice. you choose to spend your power slot on a different power, just like a power pool selection or a APP selection.
You dont give up a power, you just select a different one at that level.
where have I given any hint that you would sacrifice a random power? serisouly, I think you are reading what you want to read in a determined effort not to like whats infornt of you. It really sounds like you read two lines and though "NO!" and then everythign else was read with the determination that your original feeling could not and would not be wrong.
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| No one, and i mean NO ONE is going to be willing to sacrifice their scrapper's tier 9 attack, mez protection and self heal to use some stuff that is no more than glorified temp powers. |
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Look at the prices they are going for. And then look at the prices of the things that are actually popular among the players. Luck of the Gambler +Recharge goes for 100-300 million influence. The most EXPENSIVE temp power is maybe 100k. If temp powers were as popular as you claim, their prices would be significantly higher. Simple logic: Temp powers exist. They can be gotten extremely cheaply on the market. There is no shortage of temp powers available to buy. If people WANTED these temp powers, they wouldn't be selling them dirt cheap like that. |
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People routinely complain that they are getting too many temp power drops and they are taking up space in their inventory. And they unload the ones they don't delete for dirt cheap, because no one wants them enough to pay more for them. All of that tells me that people don't want to be bothered with an item system in the game. You bring up "actively traded temp powers" in an attempt to bolster your argument. What you did was point out that temp powers are unloaded dirt cheap because no one wants them. |
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and yet you managed to completely miss the part where I said, |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Of course it's an attempt at tankmagery. The OP gave that away right away with this explanation.
Even tho the OP attempts to argue that these "items" are similar to the temp powers that already exist in the game, when have we ever been able to slot temp powers with even 1 enhancement let alone 6. Oh and I may be wrong about this but don't people that do a lot of exemping put a self imposed level cap on the enhancements they slot of 25 or 30? |
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| Items have powers but are less powerful than their powerset equivalents. Healing aura from the bio-sympathetic spoo slime stored in a bottle is not as effective as healing from Harry Healz, Medical Master extraordinaire. |
additionally, "like temporary powers" does nto mean "the same as" temporary powers. I suggested that they be slottable with a restricted set of enhancements capped at a level that I offered as a suggestion.
you seem to have decided to read some sort of conspiracy into it somehow.
allowing slotting would make the item more desirable to the player and more useful at higher levels.
Not allowing IO sets that give set bonuses and procs cuts out a form of abuse, which I have already posted.
Do many people cap enhancements at 30 for themselves? maybe they do. Is that a reason to claim a suggested cap of 30 is an attempt at tank magery? I dont think so, what level would you suggest?
I think you need to re-examine your definition of tank-magery because I see a difference between versatility and master-of-all-trades.
@Sharker_Quint_001 : thats your opinion and you are entitled to hold it. However, I would defy you to show me in any FAQ or rulebook on teh game that this is NOT how coh is meant to be played, that it is breaking some rule somewhere. I would also ask how it is that you can speak for every player of CoH? Was there an election to make you our spokesman? As I said, I acknowledge that you have an opinion and I wouldnt criticise you for having it but please dont state it as fact when it clearly isnt.
Well... I think it's safe to say there are some people very much against anything even remotely resembling itemization. Although, frankly, I'm not sure most of the discussion in that vein is actually all that related to the original idea posted, either.
However, I'm still really trying to get my mind around the original idea, I must admit.... to me, it reads somewhat like a "Gadgetry" pool powerset might.
Each slot taken allows the character to "equip" a pool-related "temp power" built using the invention system (expanding on the existing temp powers concept), with recipes unlocked via the badge system (expanding on the memorized recipes concept, in a way), and at least somewhat modifiable to their personal taste in terms of it's visual impact on the character via the tailoring system (or some similar adjunct).
Presumably the "gadgets" would be tuned to the level of power of a typical pool power, in that implementation at least. Whether that was the intent in the original post, I'm not entirely clear on.
How close does that track to what was being proposed?
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Other comments: to my view, most of the argumentation has been somewhat off point. The currently market activity re: temp powers, for example.... the recipes drop like rain, with the unc/rares requiring components that market for 6 and 7 digit sums underneath. The market prices are driven almost entirely by offsetting supply forces (oversupply really) at present... drawing any conclusion re: actual demand levels is nearly impossible. About all that can be said is that they are not constantly central to the gameplay of every player that logs in... which is good, they shouldn't be.
Aside: The drop rate is obviously tuned to make temp powers potentially available to anyone who wants them. I myself use hand grenades and revolvers quite a bit to fill in for holes in the attack sequence on new characters at low levels, in addition to the veteran temps, of course. And of course, envenomed daggers for debuff and stun grenades for the occasional supplemental crowd control in certain TFs. Two of my 50s are fairly heavy utilizers of temp powers, and the 5-6 others I play with any regularity almost never use them.
Not to mention that the invention temp powers are a fairly poor comparison to the proposed system to begin with.
The comment on "you WILL NOT make me choose which powers I have to give up to get some other half brained power"... 1) no real-world mind control was proposed, and 2) um, this is already the case? Limited number of power slots, hello? You're already forced to choose amongst multiple possible powers, it's been part of the game since day 1. If you think a power is half-brained... I would suggest Don't Take It. (I think everyone has their own unique set of existing pools they would point at on that score...)
I am surprised by the level of vitriol. Someone trying to kill someone's favorite hamster, or something? It's not a suggestion to replace your Starbucks with Folgers. I really don't see the existential threat, here...
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All that said, evaluating likelihood of implementation based on what I think is proposed: I do think it is significantly more effort than is likely to be given to anything short of a brand new powerset, in particular due to the tie to costuming options. They haven't even gotten around to allowing customization of the existing pool and epic sets yet... adding any reasonable selection of what would essentially be visually customizable temp powers is _very_ low probability, I suspect.
My two cents...
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Classic KittyCrusader complex. It's not complicated because the OP says it isn't complicated. |
Originally Posted by Evangel
how is it complicated? You choose to diversify by picking a power, just as you already do. you achieve a badge, just as you already do (anyone that has played Posi's tf most likely has the gearsmasher badge already), you select the power (within limits) you want from whats available, you craft it. how is this any more complicated than what is already there?
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classic internet crusader complex: being polite and engaging in rational discussion is too much effort so I'll boil your posting style down to a handy category and dismiss you that way leaving me with the "win".
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Classic KittyCrusader complex. It's not complicated because the OP says it isn't complicated.
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actually quite close indeed. the issue with making it exactly the same as a power pool is the requirement to tier the powers in some form of progression. badges can be gained at any time and in any order so, unless you were to have tier 1 to 4 possible powers for each badge (more effort) I was thinking of just flatpacking it and letting the player decide between power and utility. Seeign as the player has already pretty much chosen concept and utility by electign to go this route, the results should be pretty much fair. of course, even if they do elect to go the power route and take as much damage or buff etc as they can, they still wont ever be as good as a toon that has those powers as part of their power set so the potential for imbalance is lessened somewhat. |
Originally Posted by Magenta_Phoenix
Well... I think it's safe to say there are some people very much against anything even remotely resembling itemization. Although, frankly, I'm not sure most of the discussion in that vein is actually all that related to the original idea posted, either.
However, I'm still really trying to get my mind around the original idea, I must admit.... to me, it reads somewhat like a "Gadgetry" pool powerset might. Each slot taken allows the character to "equip" a pool-related "temp power" built using the invention system (expanding on the existing temp powers concept), with recipes unlocked via the badge system (expanding on the memorized recipes concept, in a way), and at least somewhat modifiable to their personal taste in terms of it's visual impact on the character via the tailoring system (or some similar adjunct). Presumably the "gadgets" would be tuned to the level of power of a typical pool power, in that implementation at least. Whether that was the intent in the original post, I'm not entirely clear on. How close does that track to what was being proposed? |
Customisation etc I would see done either at a tailor or as part of the item creation process which uses the same UI as the tailor to design. perhaps with an additional tab for "detail work" - ie: modification of a particular piece.
as already suggested by another user though, there should really be an option to not display the item which, while it goes against my original concept would make the idea more approachable to more people.
also, I used the term Item instead of gadget as I was thinking more of an origin specific set of tools and gadget suggested more of a tech based origin than anything else to me. Perhaps "item" gives too much of a fantasy/magic based atmosphere to the idea.
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| All that said, evaluating likelihood of implementation based on what I think is proposed: I do think it is significantly more effort than is likely to be given to anything short of a brand new powerset, in particular due to the tie to costuming options. They haven't even gotten around to allowing customization of the existing pool and epic sets yet... adding any reasonable selection of what would essentially be visually customizable temp powers is _very_ low probability, I suspect. |
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| My two cents... |
much appreciated either way.
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No I didn't. Your example was silly because players don't need an item that bestows a weak healing power because there are powers in the power pools they grant any character healing abilities|
Originally Posted by Evangel
and yet you managed to completely miss the part where I said
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| which shows that , from the outset, I in no way suggested that I would wish for a tank with a ranged attack to be as effective as a blaster or any other toon for whom ranged is an importnat part of their powerset. an sentiment I have repeated many times so far in this thread and repeat here. |
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| additionally, "like temporary powers" does nto mean "the same as" temporary powers. I suggested that they be slottable with a restricted set of enhancements capped at a level that I offered as a suggestion. |
We don't need items because we already have temp powers that serve the same purpose and don't gimp players builds by making them sacrifice powers. Furthermore we already have Power Pools which aren't as powerful as primary/secondaries and are slottable that allow players to customize their characters builds.
So adding a new feature that duplicates temp powers and power pools is an unnecessary waste of time and resources.
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| you seem to have decided to read some sort of conspiracy into it somehow. |
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| allowing slotting would make the item more desirable to the player and more useful at higher levels. |
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| Not allowing IO sets that give set bonuses and procs cuts out a form of abuse, which I have already posted. |
[quote]Do many people cap enhancements at 30 for themselves? maybe they do. Is that a reason to claim a suggested cap of 30 is an attempt at tank magery? I dont think so, what level would you suggest?/quote]
Fail.
I never said that your suggested level cap was an attempt at Tankmagery. I asked for confirmation from other forum members if my memory was correct on the level of enhancements some players choose to use to get the best results when exemplaring. If my memory is correct then it seems quite a coincidence that you arbitrarily chose that level as the limit.
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| I think you need to re-examine your definition of tank-magery because I see a difference between versatility and master-of-all-trades. |
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what about a weak end drain power, or a weak acc debuff power, or a weak healing power that doesnt involve pulling out a star trek tricorder in the animation|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No I didn't. Your example was silly because players don't need an item that bestows a weak healing power because there are powers in the power pools they grant any character healing abilities
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| It doesn't matter if a melee character isn't as good as a pure ranged character. Tankmaging is the attempt to make a character that doesn't have any weaknesses |
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| No it doesn't. You threw that argument in there as a red herring. |
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| We don't need items because we already have temp powers that serve the same purpose and don't gimp players builds by making them sacrifice powers. Furthermore we already have Power Pools which aren't as powerful as primary/secondaries and are slottable that allow players to customize their characters builds. |
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So adding a new feature that duplicates temp powers and power pools is an unnecessary waste of time and resources. Translation: We aren't as gullible as you hoped. |
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| Translation: allowing slotting would allow the creation of tankmages. |
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| And not adding an unnecessary feature that already exists in the game also prevents abuse. |
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Fail. I never said that your suggested level cap was an attempt at Tankmagery. I asked for confirmation from other forum members if my memory was correct on the level of enhancements some players choose to use to get the best results when exemplaring. If my memory is correct then it seems quite a coincidence that you arbitrarily chose that level as the limit. |
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| No I don't. If you want that kind of "versatility" you are free to play that other super hero MMO that allows that it. Of course that type of "versatility" was so popular the game was forced to go F2P from lack of players and they instituted Archetypes similar to this game. |
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I'd suggest that you could just say that the implicit tiering effect is simply how many "gadgets" you get to use at one time. Just ignore the implied power level advancement... the "power" here is intended to come from the greater versatility, anyway. Expanding on an existing system as opposed to generating a new one is usually easier to both explain and implement, after all. I understand your concerns, tho.|
Originally Posted by Evangel
actually quite close indeed. the issue with making it exactly the same as a power pool is the requirement to tier the powers in some form of progression. badges can be gained at any time and in any order so, unless you were to have tier 1 to 4 possible powers for each badge (more effort) I was thinking of just flatpacking it and letting the player decide between power and utility.
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| also, I used the term Item instead of gadget as I was thinking more of an origin specific set of tools and gadget suggested more of a tech based origin than anything else to me. Perhaps "item" gives too much of a fantasy/magic based atmosphere to the idea. |
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In hindsight, you're right |
Originally Posted by Magenta_Phoenix
I'd suggest that you could just say that the implicit tiering effect is simply how many "gadgets" you get to use at one time. Just ignore the implied power level advancement... the "power" here is intended to come from the greater versatility, anyway. Expanding on an existing system as opposed to generating a new one is usually easier to both explain and implement, after all. I understand your concerns, tho.
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powerpool:
tier 1: you can use one "thing"
tier 2: you must have tier 1. you can use two "things"
tier 3: you must have tier 2. you can use three "things"
tier 4: you mus thave tier 3. you can use four "things"
take away the level selection limitations to make it more accessible and increase the versatility or match them to the current requirements on power pools (1st at 6, tier 3 at 14 and tier 4 at 24).
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| Item is just a heavily loaded term design-wise, and especially in relation to CoH... I'd avoid it entirely. I certainly sympathize with a desire to fit conceptually with the various origins, however (my magic origin nrg/dev blaster would love some alternative graphics for her secondary, to pick an example). |
nice and generically ambiguous.
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It is more complicated than what is already there because your primary, secondary and pool power choices don't require you to earn a badge to choose them. You reach the level the power is available at, you can choose the power, nice and simple.| how is it complicated? You choose to diversify by picking a power, just as you already do. you achieve a badge, just as you already do (anyone that has played Posi's tf most likely has the gearsmasher badge already), you select the power (within limits) you want from whats available, you craft it. how is this any more complicated than what is already there? |
Most of the badges that would grant items come from enemy defeats. How is it fair to ask a level 16 blaster to defeat 200 Fake Nemesis so he can get a weak force field? Would he have to beg a higher level character to help him, or just accept that he won't be able to earn that item for another 28 levels, even though he could slot it NOW if he had it?
When you strip everything away, you are proposing alternate powers. Whether they come from "items" or not is irrelevant. If you choose them like powers, and slot them like powers, and they are in every way like powers, then they ARE powers.
You're saying we should earn a badge in order to get powers that REPLACE powers in our leveling up choices. There is nothing else in the game that makes us earn a badge to have the right to choose a particular power, that takes up one of our leveling up power slots.
And before you bring it up (because I know you will), yes, you have to earn Incarnate powers, but they are in addition to your leveling up power choices, not in replacement of them. Accolades are the same way, they add to your characters' powers, they don't replace them.
Your power choices don't require you to craft anything to use them either. I don't have to train, choose my power, and immediately run to the Auction house to buy salvage to craft the power with. Or run to the nearest Invention table to craft it, which could be rather far away from where I am. Not everyone has one in their base, if they even have a base.
You're proposing a clunky, awkward system that takes the worst parts of power pools and temp powers and combines them, that is why I'm against it.
I'm not too worried though. I don't believe the devs are dumb enough to implement this.
Now a "gadgets" power pool? That wouldn't be so bad.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
For the record, my issue isn't so much with whatever you want to call what is to my eyes, new powers.
My issue is with having to earn a badge for each individual power/gadget/item/doodad/whatever you want to use.
Even the Patron Pools, which you have to run an arc to unlock, don't make you earn 20 different badges before you can use all the powers in them. You run one relatively short story arc and you have access to all the powers.
Say you want to use things you get from the badges Unveiler, Tank Buster, Infiltrator, and Visionary. That means you will have to kill 100 Fake Nemesis for ONE power, 100 Freakshow Tanks for the next power, 200 Paragon Protectors for the next one, and 100 Rularuu Overseers for the last one. That's 500 fairly tough enemies you have to defeat to unlock FOUR powers. And then if you want to change any of those powers, you will have to go out and kill something else.
That is WAY too much to ask someone to do just to get a frigging POWER POOL CHOICE.
Have you tried earning any of those badges? They all take a long damn time to get. Especially if your character is something like an Ice/Empathy controller. The only thing that is even similar is the Patron Pools, and that takes maybe 45 minutes to unlock ALL of them.
If you can show me one other power in the game that both A) makes you grind out a defeat badge to get it, and B) takes up one of your power selections, just for ONE power, I would be happy to shut up and let you try to convince the devs to implement your idea.
Even the Incarnate powers, grindy as they are, don't make you use up a power choice to take them. And the power pools are free for anyone to take, without having to earn them.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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i dont even add into this, i literally just delete every temp power i get for the "market watch" you posted|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
As far as the "actively traded temp powers" are an indication that people would want an item system added to the game.
Here are your "actively traded temp powers":
Now, you can call that "actively traded" if you want. To me, it looks like a bunch of people trying to unload crap that no one wants to buy. If you were trying to use the popularity of temp powers to prove that people would want your item system, well these numbers (taken straight from the market about 2 hours ago) prove that theory to be patently false. |
hell i wish i could turn off the temp power drop pool so they stop cluttering my inventory
Read the first few posts and what he was talking about is not needed. There temp powers for those who want them. As for costume pieces they should be free but in game there are those you get only with merits which i hate. Verity is good, more powers good, temp powers are ok as do not last long and are under powered, and are tied to the level they would be useful at you can use them. Taking up a slot bad, we have a high end power system in place now and we get a merit thing from defeating missions that is generic to get a power option of your choice. not tired to a certain item. JUST SAY NO TO FAT LEWT.
By the way played all the others ww, chumps online, marvel everyone looks like me and a few others that were unremarkable. This is the only game with the best support and fan base i have ever seen and changing the basic concepts be hid it would be wrong just look at your comic books because its a comic book super hero mmo first a villain would use some one with and item or a power first to get what he wants and on the hero side they would team up to fight to take out the bad guys its like super man taking batman's utility belt with him every were now using a bataring once given to him by bat man is ok (temp power) any way if you do not under stand then you will not be staying any way because you are on e of those and not one of us don't let the door hit you on the way out wow baby
Some of my suggestions from posts i have done
boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=195762&highlight=dbhellfist
boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=278178&highlight=dbhellfist
Here is all My toons
http://img261.imagevenue.com/gallery...9625081-24.php
Lol, I actually read this thread. The arguments brought up are pretty lame, IMO. We don't need 'itemization/lewt' when we already do? These powers aren't *MY* powers? It just blows my mind how people so adamantly bark about their own opinion and the set that opinion of theirs as some sort of rule that the game must abide by...like others don't have opinions or play the same game...
Anyway, OP, I'll just say that I don't like your first idea. We already have temp powers and a system for creating them. Why not just 'enhance' that system to make said temp powers more usable?
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Something like that. I had an idea for a 'Utility Belt' pool that basically did something like the above. Personally, I'd probably break up the powers in another way with different restrictions:|
Originally Posted by Evangel
powerpool: tier 1: you can use one "thing" tier 2: you must have tier 1. you can use two "things" tier 3: you must have tier 2. you can use three "things" tier 4: you mus thave tier 3. you can use four "things" take away the level selection limitations to make it more accessible and increase the versatility or match them to the current requirements on power pools (1st at 6, tier 3 at 14 and tier 4 at 24). |
tier 1: Passive +ToHit and ToHit debuff resistance (a passive power that's useful for anyone but more importantly, it makes using temp powers a bit easier to use)
tier 2: Inspired, a long recharging click that lets you 'use' an inspiration but does not burn it
tier 3: Utility Belt 3 or 4 'slots' that allow you to permanently choose to fill with temp powers and they won't be burned away. But their recharge and endurance cost would depend on the belt, not the power. The fast recharge/cheapy endurance cost of something like a Malta Cryo pistol or Eldritch rune of power that comes with the temporary version would be replaced by the set recharge and cost of the slot you put it in.
tier 4: Re-equip, since whatever you put in the slot is permanent and only changeable through respec, this long recharging click lets you delete a power from your slots on the fly so you can replace it with another.
My similar idea basically tries not to penalize any build for this utility. With 2 power slots, you can get 3 actual powers. With 3 powers, you get more flexibility with a wide array of extra powers and it'd be up to the player if such flexibility is worth 2-3 power choices.
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Punctuation is your friend.
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Originally Posted by dbhellfist
Read the first few posts and what he was talking about is not needed. There temp powers for those who want them. As for costume pieces they should be free but in game there are those you get only with merits which i hate. Verity is good, more powers good, temp powers are ok as do not last long and are under powered, and are tied to the level they would be useful at you can use them. Taking up a slot bad, we have a high end power system in place now and we get a merit thing from defeating missions that is generic to get a power option of your choice. not tired to a certain item. JUST SAY NO TO FAT LEWT.
By the way played all the others ww, chumps online, marvel everyone looks like me and a few others that were unremarkable. This is the only game with the best support and fan base i have ever seen and changing the basic concepts be hid it would be wrong just look at your comic books because its a comic book super hero mmo first a villain would use some one with and item or a power first to get what he wants and on the hero side they would team up to fight to take out the bad guys its like super man taking batman's utility belt with him every were now using a bataring once given to him by bat man is ok (temp power) any way if you do not under stand then you will not be staying any way because you are on e of those and not one of us don't let the door hit you on the way out wow baby |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Punctuation is your friend.
|
>> ................<< ! + ? = ..i.
Some of my suggestions from posts i have done
boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=195762&highlight=dbhellfist
boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=278178&highlight=dbhellfist
Here is all My toons
http://img261.imagevenue.com/gallery...9625081-24.php
Okay, Spider-Man picked up a pumpkin bomb and used it, on a couple occasions. Did he KEEP some pumpkin bombs and use them all the time after that?