Reduce Resistances on Mission Objectives
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-06-02 22:01 in Suggestions and Ideas
While from a game Lore/RP point of view, I can see why a giant meteor chunk or a giant mechanical machine should take a while to defeat. From a fun over time point of view, I cannot agree with you more.
The worst culprit of this is the computer in the ITF. It should melt in seconds to a fire attack, or be decimated by Demon pets. instead its soo freaking tough that as you're dismantling it slowly it has time to activate some robots nearby.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
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You should just be glad they nerfed the Desk of Doom.
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There. Is. No. Mole Machine. Mission.
*twitch*
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
You should just be glad they nerfed the Desk of Doom.
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To the OP, I agree 100%. I feel so much less powerful when my SS brute can tear through EBs and cause the earth to tremble with one blow, only to be stalled by an inanimate object. It wouldn't be so bad if they had something like forcefields around them for protection. That I can buy. But as I'm wailing on this thing, I find myself thinking, if this damn thing is so freakin tough, why don't the baddies just carve the material into armor??
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The Desk of Doom was an (arguably bugged) destructible mission objective with huge resistances, massive hitpoints and a team-wiping explosion when it was destroyed, which appeared (IIRC) in one of the early Villain arcs. It was like the demonic spawn of a Mole Machine and a Shadow Cyst Crystal, produced by Ikea.|
Originally Posted by Rowdy
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It was heavily nerfed and now isn't any different to any other destructible mission objective.
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Yes, it appeared on one of the Sharkhead miners arcs. I remember dying to it with all my villain alts. Most invigorating and character building.
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We've been saying that about the mole machines for... how long now?
Dear devs:
When the strategy to beat something is, "Set attack on auto and go make dinner. Before sitting down, move to the next thing and go EAT dinner and do the dishes, pick third item and watch a movie, then pick fourth item and get some sleep," resistance and/or hitpoints should, quite likely, be reexamined.
The only good thing about Mole Machines is positioning yourself so that when they're destroyed the resulting explosion sends your whole team clear across the map in various directions.
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Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
While from a game Lore/RP point of view, I can see why a giant meteor chunk or a giant mechanical machine should take a while to defeat. From a fun over time point of view, I cannot agree with you more.
The worst culprit of this is the computer in the ITF. It should melt in seconds to a fire attack, or be decimated by Demon pets. instead its soo freaking tough that as you're dismantling it slowly it has time to activate some robots nearby. |
Ah, the mole machines. Here's a fight I usually conduct while watching something vastly more exciting on TV. Like Mike Rowe scrubbing the inside of a bear brewery tank for about 5 minutes straight.
*edit*
More to point: Fights you cannot lose have no excuse to be long and boring. Balance by annoyance is a bad way to implement things. Mole Machines, the Shivan meteorite and others should either have fewer hit points or less damage resistance. Or both. Either that, or they should spawn ambushes, which the meteorite kind of does... Once.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This one I actually disagree with. The computer is setup as a challenge, it's not just a matter of dealing sufficient damage to kill it but doing so whilst surviving the onslaught of the robots.|
Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
The worst culprit of this is the computer in the ITF. It should melt in seconds to a fire attack, or be decimated by Demon pets. instead its soo freaking tough that as you're dismantling it slowly it has time to activate some robots nearby.
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There is an important distinction between mission objectives such as the Mole Machines which just sit there and take it and the computer which summons ambushes to defend itself while you are pounding it.
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^ This. Even though I find it a little cheaty that the entire PC seems to be made of Impervium, at least it is part of a challenge like setting. I can live with that easily.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
This one I actually disagree with. The computer is setup as a challenge, it's not just a matter of dealing sufficient damage to kill it but doing so whilst surviving the onslaught of the robots.
There is an important distinction between mission objectives such as the Mole Machines which just sit there and take it and the computer which summons ambushes to defend itself while you are pounding it. |
Mole machines? Only thing I'm fighting is booooredom -_-
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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There was a thread similar to this about someone getting tired of missing when attacking a static mission objective object too, wasn't there?
I agree that the devs ought to re-examine how those are set up, but with an eye to how those objects should logically hold up when attacked by superheroes or otherwise.
What I mean is, everyday mundane items like supply crates, barrels, and the like should be pretty easy to destroy, and unable to dodge or resist any attacks (except mezzes, since putting a crate to sleep or confusing it is kind of awkward). Make like a special "Mundane Object" power that eliminates the soft cap toward accuracy or allows all attacks to hit, with full resistance to mezzing.
And make sure they have HP comparable to, say, the Proximity Bombs in Praetorian missions.
For mission objectives that are supposed to be sturdy (like the Shivan Meteors), they shouldn't be any tougher to destroy than, at most, a Boss. Yes, they're big and sturdy, but we are superpowered beings here. Most of the Bosses tend to be superpowered or well-armored beings themselves.
I seem to remember the last time I did this mission that at the very least you didn't need to actually defeat them anymore?
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From a practical point of view, implementing a special feature to auto-hit objectives is probably a lot of work. Simply giving them a highly negative defense value so we're always at 95% to hit is probably a lot easier for almost the same effect.
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Originally Posted by LittleDavid
What I mean is, everyday mundane items like supply crates, barrels, and the like should be pretty easy to destroy, and unable to dodge or resist any attacks (except mezzes, since putting a crate to sleep or confusing it is kind of awkward). Make like a special "Mundane Object" power that eliminates the soft cap toward accuracy or allows all attacks to hit, with full resistance to mezzing.
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What's even weirder about this is that an inanimate machine is somehow more vulnerable to psychic mental attacks than physical ones. My brain is hurting trying to comprehend how this works!
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
There are some entities in the game whose only purpose is to sit there and be destroyed as a mission objectives. Now most of these are fine but some of them are absolutely ridiculous.
I was doing the mission "Stop Nemesis Attack!" from Black Scorpion which requires you to destroy 4 Nemesis Mole Machines. I noticed it was taking me forever to kill them even on a high DPS character so I took a look at them with my power analyzer and discovered that they have 75% resistance to everything except Psionic (which is 50%). I really, really think that this needs to be reduced. Spending several minutes cycling through my attacks against an inanimate object that can't fight back is in no way interesting. Several other objective items seem to be similar (the Meteor in the Shivan mission of the Ouroborus Initiation arc comes to mind as another offender) I really think that these items should have their resistances and/or hit points reduced. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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My assumption is that the vulnerability to psionic is supposed to represent you scrambling the brains of the crew inside. Either that or it's a typo and it's actually supposed to be immune to psionic damage (it actually has two different resistance powers, one provides +75% resistance to all, the other provides -25% psionic resistance*).|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
What's even weirder about this is that an inanimate machine is somehow more vulnerable to psychic mental attacks than physical ones. My brain is hurting trying to comprehend how this works!
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*That is to say the impact is -25% so either it's -25% unresistable or -100% resistable.
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i actually hold on to this mish to farm the AVs in it since it is still bugged and the patrons are all considered enemies now, been that way for like 2 issues at least
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I was doing the mission "Stop Nemesis Attack!" from Black Scorpion which
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Well, why not give negative defense as a special power to static objects? I mean, it's just a different mean to the same end.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
From a practical point of view, implementing a special feature to auto-hit objectives is probably a lot of work. Simply giving them a highly negative defense value so we're always at 95% to hit is probably a lot easier for almost the same effect.
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We get a negative stealth power when we're escorting an NPC, after all.
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Right, that's what I was suggesting. My point was that no matter how much negative defense they have you will still miss 5% of the time.
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Originally Posted by LittleDavid
Well, why not give negative defense as a special power to static objects? I mean, it's just a different mean to the same end.
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And most static objects already have -25% or -50% defense across the board, enough to push you to the ToHit cap against them unless they're very purple. There are very few Object class things that are missing this negative defense number, but several other notable static objects, like DE emanators, don't have it.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Right, that's what I was suggesting. My point was that no matter how much negative defense they have you will still miss 5% of the time.
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I'm pretty sure that the lower resistance to Psi on most objects is a holdover from when Psi was only available from personal attacks by two low-damage scalar ATs, Controllers and Defenders. A rare case of throwing out verisimilitude for game balance reasons when it comes to resistances.
As far as the point of this thread, I agree completely. Drop their resistances, regen or both.
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There are some entities in the game whose only purpose is to sit there and be destroyed as a mission objectives. Now most of these are fine but some of them are absolutely ridiculous.
I was doing the mission "Stop Nemesis Attack!" from Black Scorpion which requires you to destroy 4 Nemesis Mole Machines. I noticed it was taking me forever to kill them even on a high DPS character so I took a look at them with my power analyzer and discovered that they have 75% resistance to everything except Psionic (which is 50%). I really, really think that this needs to be reduced. Spending several minutes cycling through my attacks against an inanimate object that can't fight back is in no way interesting.
Several other objective items seem to be similar (the Meteor in the Shivan mission of the Ouroborus Initiation arc comes to mind as another offender) I really think that these items should have their resistances and/or hit points reduced.