Seeking Advice on current Archetype strength
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-05-27 03:02 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I'll cover them as best I can. |
Originally Posted by hood_
Fire/Fire Blaster
Invuln/Fire Tanker Fire/Energy Tanker Ice/Ice Tanker Broad Sword/Regen Scrapper Dark/Dark Scrapper Radiation/Psionic Defender |
Fire/Fire blaster: I don't know if you noticed or not, but Defiance got a HUGE buff a while back. Instead of buffing your damage as you get closer to death, you now get more damage basedon how many attacks you fire in a short amount of time. You can also now fire your first two primary and first secondary powers while mezzed.
Oh, and they changed the animation for Flares, it's very much worth taking now with a 1 second animation time.
Other than those points, a Fire/Fire blaster plays pretty much how it always did.
Invuln/Fire tank: Invuln got a buff a while back too. The resistance passives are now 10% base instead of 7.5% base. Unyielding no longer debuffs your defense, and Invincibility gives you more benefit from smaller groups of enemies.
Don't think Fire Melee has been changed much.
Fire/Energy tank: Energy Transfer got a slight nerf. To hear people talk the power got gutted, but in reality, it deals the same damage, just with a longer activation time.
Fiery Aura got a slight buff. healing Flames recharges faster and heals for more (it is now the second best self heal in the game after Dark Regeneration). Fiery Embrace went from a straight damage buff to applying Fire damage to all your attacks for 30 seconds. Temperature Protection got some slow resistance added. Fiery Aura is still the squishiest tanker though, and your choice of Energy Melee doesn't really give you any AoE at all.
In my opinion, your Fire/Energy tank is probably the weakest in your roster.
Ice/Ice: Not sure what changes, if any, have occurred here. Except Hibernate, you are now limited to only being able to use it every 60 seconds, regardless of how fast you have it recharging. But, if you need Hibernate more often than once a minute you have bigger problems.
Still one of the best agro holders in the game.
Broadsword/Regen scrapper: This combo can be very squishy, or insanely tough, depending on how it is built. Parry is a MUST for this combo. Regen did get a few nerfs, but nothing earth shattering. If you get enough defense rocking you can live through most anything.
Dark/Dark scrapper: This one got some much needed changes to Dark Melee. I'll elaborate. Siphon Life is now your second hardest hitting attack, and Midnight Grasp now deals most of it's damage up front with a DoT afterward. Soul Drain now gives you a larger boost from the first enemy, and slightly less boost for each additional enemy (it roughly evens out in the end)
Dark Armor hasn't changed too much, but I don't know what did or didn't change since you played last.
Rad/Psi defender: Nothing much has changed here at all, it should be more or less how you remember it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Also, there have been a LOT of changes to the game since you've been gone.
This will be one of your most useful resources: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page
Whatever the last issue you remember was, search the next issue up and read up on what was changed. We're on Issue 20 now, so that's a lot of stuff to read.
I strongly suggest leaving your 50s alone for a little while and starting a new character.
There are a number of new powersets in existence, and a lot of powersets available on ATs that didn't have them before (you can make a Dark Armor tank for example)
There are also villain ATs that may not have existed when you left: Brute, Corruptor, Dominator, Mastermind, and Stalker.
Brutes fall somehwere between scrappers and tanks in survivability, and they deal good damage. They have a mix of scrapper and tanker powersets. Their inherent ability is Fury, which increases your damage the longer you fight.
Corruptors are sort of like Defenders in reverse. They get blast sets for their primary and buff/debuff sets for their secondary. Their inherent ability is Scourge, which basically acts like critical hits that trigger when your target's health gets lower.
Dominators are a funky mix between Controllers and Blasters. They get Control primaries and Assault secondaries (which are somewhat like blast and melee attack sets combined) Their inherent is Domination, which gives them mez protection and doubles the effectiveness of their controls when it is up.
Masterminds have no analogue in the ATs you're familiar with. They have Pet primaries and buff/debuff secondaries. Their inherent is Superiority, which increases your pets' damage when they are within 25 feet of you.
Stalkers are basically stealthy, single-target oriented scrappers, that are a bit squishier. They get critical hits like scrappers, and Assassination, which lets them guarantee a critical on a lot of their attacks when attacking from the Hidden state.
There is WAY too much to tell you about in a couple posts though, so I suggest perusing paragonwiki.
Look up Inventions while you're at it. They were one of the things that changed the game the most since you've been gone. There is a market now.
If you have a few respecs, you can make a KILLING on the market seling your Hami-Os, especially if you have any level 51, 52, or 53 ones, as they are impossible to acquire now. If you have a lot of them you can literally make BILLIONS from them.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I'll address the Ice/Ice Tanker. Ice Armor hasn't changed much since you've been gone, besides the nerfs that happened to most powersets in the Global Defense Nerf, and then in how you slot enhancements, in Enhancement Diversification. If you were here for those, great.
However, since you left, I'm betting that /Ice Melee has changed quite a bit. Frozen Aura, the much lamented tier-9 power of the set, is now actually a great power. It does the same base damage as Foot Stomp, and has a sleep to go with it (which you probably won't get much out of, but it can detoggle lieuts and minions). Frost got it's area increased slightly, too. Basically, Ice Melee is now a decent AoE set, though it's still slightly lower on single-target damage, and it's control factors are largely untouched.
Also, on Tanks in general, they recently got a buff in the form of Bruising. Your tier 1 attack applies a power which causes the target to give themselves a -20% resistance debuff. This means that anyone you hit with your tier-1 ability, for 10 seconds, will take 20% more damage from you and your team. It's single-target, but can help when you're fighting bosses and above.
Hope this helps a bit!
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
One comment on Regen to establish context...
3-4 years ago, or thereabouts, a /regen scrapper was the primary Hamidon tanker for the big end-game trial. That's how 'godlike' they once were. Even outside of Hami raids, many regenners back then would run perma-MOG builds, effectively running around looking like they were about to die but in fact having something like 75% defense to everything (almost equivalent to a /SR with perma-Elude running) and super high resistance to help offset anything that got through that. I remember this because I did both of these things. You could effectively ignore almost all the /Regen powers if you wished.
The nerf bat gutted the /Regen set which was admittedly broken. You pretty much need MOST /Regen powers now to survive other than MOG. MOG is now totally optional and not at all your perma-"I Win" button.
So just keep that in mind if you were here THAT long ago. I've got a lvl 50 BS/Regen sporting almost 90% Hami-O's, no IO's and still carrying the Fitness pool. I just see no reason to respec him as he's merely a shadow of his former glory days even buffed up. As noted above, I've been thinking about doing a number of respecs on him just to dump all his Hami O's and slot them into other active toons or to sell. I think I tanked something like 100 Hami raids back in the day and between trades and funneling other HO's from different toons, he only has a few SO's on him. He is a museum piece, but a highly VALUABLE one.
Oh and if you used to enjoy PVP back then...you won't now. The devs took a misguided approach to trying to make PVP more acceptable to the masses (who hated it then and still avoid it now) and in the process totally killed it for the die-hard min/max PVP'rs. Basically, zone PVP is dead and unless you invest in all the phat lewt of purple IO's, you are just a pinata for others now since you sometimes drop rare PVP IO's when defeated.
I did respec my 50 Fire/Ice and Fire/Fire tankers for farming though. They are quite useful in AE fire-based critter missions now for power-leveling others. But for Incarnate trials, my old Fire/ tankers or my newer /Fiery Aura brutes get pretty beat up. If you go that route, think of them as regen scrappers.
Last thing....IO's and set bonuses from same are game-changing now. You can play a toon using just SO's as in the past but you'll find the proper investment in the right IO sets to be invaluable in making you feel "super" now, particularly in relation to those who have mastered this. And to make good use of IO's takes influence/infamy/information currency now and LOTS of it. Remember when having 10 million on a toon was considered "pretty good?" Hah! I have level 15 alts with 300 million on them from some early rare IO sales at the market. Most of my Incarnate-class 50's are at the 2 Billion max and I'm constantly buying IO sets for my lowbies with them. This is a HUGE change and for someone who played pre-IO will take awhile for you to adapt.
I don't think I've bought an SO since returning to the game a few months ago. They are all but worthless now.
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For my money, I'd recommend the following:|
Fire/Fire Blaster Invuln/Fire Tanker Fire/Energy Tanker Ice/Ice Tanker Broad Sword/Regen Scrapper Dark/Dark Scrapper Radiation/Psionic Defender |
Get your alpha slot on the Invuln/Fire tanker, work him towards Incarnate powers as he will be useful on trials. The end-game stuff, while repetitive right now, gives us a hint that the devs are really ratcheting up the difficulty for Incarnate-class players. Your Ice/Ice Tanker may also be quite good as well once outfitted in Incarnate powers. You unlock your initial Alpha slot via the short arc that starts in Ouro. If you don't know about Ouro, yell out in Broadcast to have someone "Drop a Ouro portal" for you. Click the insta-portal that appears, go to Ouro. Go to the top of the spire in the landing zone and get the badge and your own Ouro insta-portal power. You'll be using this as your own mass-transit shortcut thereafter. Take the arc from the contact there to unlock your Alpha slot then start doing the two Incarnate trials night and day until you gain enough threads/iXP/phat lewt to craft your incarnate powers.
For grins and giggles, respec your Fire/NRG tanker and maybe even your Fire/Fire blaster, putting as many IO sets as you can afford on the blaster to get to the defense softcap for that one. These can be serviceable (if not optimal) farming builds for the right AE missions that are weak to your flavor of attacks and defense. This way, you'll be farming for AE mission ticket rewards and influence. Cash in the tickets at an AE vendor for rare recipes which can be crafted and/or sold at the market. This is how you will fund your respecs and any new toons you build.
I'd shelve the scrappers personally. Brutes are more fun for me to play now than scrappers with a Fury bar full of hurt, but YMMV.
Your Rad/Psi....well, defenders aren't my personal favorites, but that's about as good of a Defender build as you could ask for. Either Incarnate that one as well for variety or just make it your Weekly Task Force player. Very handy against AV's.
RI has minimal use in end game play due to a number of reasons like super sidekicking, IOs, and incarnates. Stuff simply doesn't live long enough to make the animation time worth it the vast majority of the time. By the time you find a target that will last long enough it's usually on a target the resists the debuff effect rather well. It's great for leveling up and while solo, but it can pretty much just sit in your tray unused for end game stuff.
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I cannot emphasize enough how WRONG this is. | MOG is now totally optional and not at all your perma-"I Win" button. |
MoG is arguably the most important power in Regeneration now. It is Regen's ONLY mitigation for alpha strikes. If you know you're going to take a beating, pop MoG before you jump in. It was changed so it only lasts 15 seconds, but it no longer crashes your HP and you can still heal while it is active. There are things that can and WILL kill a Regen before you can react with a heal, if you don't have MoG in your build, you will have to deal with that happening quite a bit.
On Regen, you want every power except the rez.
Instant Healing isn't a toggle anymore, it is now an extremely long recharge click power, so you don't have insane levels of regeneration available full time.
When slotting IO sets, focus on recharge, recharge, recharge, some defense, and recharge. This is obtained through set bonuses. Basically, any group of Invention Origin enhancements that have a special name (like Kinetic Combat or Crushing Impact) will give you bonuses to your character depending on how many of them you have slotted in a given power (yes, they all have to be in the same power to get the bonus)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Entitled to your opinion, but I still disagree. MOG is situational as you've indicated. The alpha-strike lasts what....a few seconds? Pop a couple of lucks and you saved yourself a power selection and have it available to you for the cost of 100 inf minus the side effects. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I cannot emphasize enough how WRONG this is.
MoG is arguably the most important power in Regeneration now. It is Regen's ONLY mitigation for alpha strikes. If you know you're going to take a beating, pop MoG before you jump in. It was changed so it only lasts 15 seconds, but it no longer crashes your HP and you can still heal while it is active. There are things that can and WILL kill a Regen before you can react with a heal, if you don't have MoG in your build, you will have to deal with that happening quite a bit. On Regen, you want every power except the rez. Instant Healing isn't a toggle anymore, it is now an extremely long recharge click power, so you don't have insane levels of regeneration available full time. |
IMO obviously. YMMV.
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I'd rather burn a power selection than keep burning inf on Lucks. Especially with the fact that MoG is a nice place to throw an LotG, doesn't need much slotting at all, and you have power selections to spare (especially if you don't grab a travel power and the rez, which becomes Boxing/Kick, Tough, Weave).
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Originally Posted by Crysys
Entitled to your opinion, but I still disagree. MOG is situational as you've indicated. The alpha-strike lasts what....a few seconds? Pop a couple of lucks and you saved yourself a power selection and have it available to you for the cost of 100 inf minus the side effects.
IMO obviously. YMMV. |
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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At 50 inf a pop, you can use 20 lucks per minion and still make a profit.
I wouldn't skip MoG, but this is a very poor argument for it.
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Valid. They also run out, and I don't know how other people's RNG luck is, but I've had a tray full of 2 of every insp but the one I needed far too often. Like on my Dark/SS tanker on one of her badly-timed Rage crashes, not having a blue, or the ability to make one.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
At 50 inf a pop, you can use 20 lucks per minion and still make a profit.
I wouldn't skip MoG, but this is a very poor argument for it. |
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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After taking such a long break from the game, you probably should start a new character to learn how-to-play-again/all-the-new-stuff/try-out-new-powersets. There have been a LOT of changes to other groups in addition to what others have said.|
Originally Posted by hood_
Hey, I've been out of the game for about 3-4 years now as you can see from my Join date, but I've decided to re-activate for the summer and I'm new to IOs and all such new things. I currently have 7 level 50s and I'm wanting to get your advice on their current state in the game. Its not really a question of which I find the most fun, as I enjoy all of my characters.
It seems to me that Regen got quite the nerf since I last played, I've done a few missions and it seems that even just a few lieut's can really pose a threat. Fire/Fire blaster is awesome AoE but I die to pretty much anything with a mez. Tanks are fun in general, what type of damage are the new TFs doing? Dark/Dark has always been an awesome combo for me, at least in terms of play. Radiation still seems good, I have 4 enzyme hami's and two lysosome's in the tohit debuff. I want to bring something to my group when I play the character, is anything in particular in high demand? Any help would be appreciated. Fire/Fire Blaster Invuln/Fire Tanker Fire/Energy Tanker Ice/Ice Tanker Broad Sword/Regen Scrapper Dark/Dark Scrapper Radiation/Psionic Defender |
Controllers get "Containment" as an inherent power. This means that if a foe is held, stunned, slept or immobilized, the controller's damage attacks do double damage. This turned some controllers from a low damage support character to a good-to-high damage character able to solo and even farm. Fire/Kin Controllers are one of the main characters used for farming (if you are into that kind of thing . . . I'm not). Fire and Plant are the best at Area Damage, with Fire having a little more damage and Plant having a little more control. There have been other important changes to Controllers as well . . . like Pets do not receive Recharge buffs.
IO sets have made huge differences to several archtypes, including Controllers. Through IO sets, Controllers can substantially increase various enhancement attributes like Recharge or Defense or Recovery. A "Perma-Phantom Army" Illusion Controller can handle Arch Villains and Giant Monsters solo because Phantom Army will keep the aggro of the big baddie, allowing the Controller to avoid most of the damage. (If you are interested, my Illusion/Radiation guide explains it all.) Other Controllers choose to focus on Defense, making them nearly as tough as Tankers.
If you want to stick to the melee damage type characters, I suggest you try something like an Electric/Shield scrapper or brute. It will play differently than any of the characters you have.
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Weren't some of the armors exclusive with one another early-on?
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Dark Armor hasn't changed too much, but I don't know what did or didn't change since you played last.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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What side effects? MOG is just pure awesome these days.|
Originally Posted by Crysys
Entitled to your opinion, but I still disagree. MOG is situational as you've indicated. The alpha-strike lasts what....a few seconds? Pop a couple of lucks and you saved yourself a power selection and have it available to you for the cost of 100 inf minus the side effects.
IMO obviously. YMMV. |
FYI: the OP said he's been gone 3-4 years. If that's correct we're talking 2007. That's Issue 9-10 territory. All the major nerfs to Regen were long done by that point. It's really only been buffed since then.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Thanks for the information everyone, I've found it very useful.
Something forgotten about the Ice/Ice Tanker...
Frozen Aura...TAKE IT! It has damage now! As much as Footstomp (sans RAGE) with a smaller AOE, and it's all Cold Damage.
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PS:|
Originally Posted by hood_
Thanks for the information everyone, I've found it very useful.
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If you had a hami build or two, congratulations!
You're Rich Now.
Before you change ANYTHING, go to Wentworth's and assess what your legacy builds are worth as you start making changes. Prices are high now, so you want to be sure you don't delete something worth 500 million without realizing it.
And NO ONE mentioned
Inherent Fitness!
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Hey, I've been out of the game for about 3-4 years now as you can see from my Join date, but I've decided to re-activate for the summer and I'm new to IOs and all such new things. I currently have 7 level 50s and I'm wanting to get your advice on their current state in the game. Its not really a question of which I find the most fun, as I enjoy all of my characters.
It seems to me that Regen got quite the nerf since I last played, I've done a few missions and it seems that even just a few lieut's can really pose a threat. Fire/Fire blaster is awesome AoE but I die to pretty much anything with a mez. Tanks are fun in general, what type of damage are the new TFs doing? Dark/Dark has always been an awesome combo for me, at least in terms of play. Radiation still seems good, I have 4 enzyme hami's and two lysosome's in the tohit debuff. I want to bring something to my group when I play the character, is anything in particular in high demand?
Any help would be appreciated.
Fire/Fire Blaster
Invuln/Fire Tanker
Fire/Energy Tanker
Ice/Ice Tanker
Broad Sword/Regen Scrapper
Dark/Dark Scrapper
Radiation/Psionic Defender