Shielded a whole BAF league with two clicks yesterday and was smiling ear-to-ear for the rest of the trial.
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The recharge times on the buffs sets that got buffed were made so they could buff the whole team from day 1. The recharge on something like Fort meant it was never designed to be on the whole team in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Biospark
I think you understand this post perfectly. As a player that has spent a great deal of my time playing ; Empathy, Kinetics, Dark, Rad and FF, When I read this "QOL" improvement for "buffers", the Kinetics/FF in me said WoW ! Cool !, but the Empath in me said ; "Hey ! I am a buffer too!"
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They are lazy and I would SB them anyway unless it's the leader. SERIOUSLY walk your lazy but over to the truck in Pocket D and change the settings. It's not like you're waiting for 20 minutes + anyway screaming lvl 53 Fire/Storm controller LF Trial! every 7 minutes...oh wait you are! lol
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Son of a *****. I joined a team on my unmothballed Kin and was promptly told "no SB please" by four members. I politely mentioned that they can now turn off the runspeed bonus with a quick trip to Pocket D. Three of them said in team chat some variant of they would eventually but right now please don't speedboost them. The fourth sent me a tell explaining that the onus was still on me to accommodate his needs, because he shouldn't have to change a setting in the game to avoid powers from other people.
Being as it's AoE now, I cheerfully targeted only the three that wanted SB and let the splash buffs land where they may. Now that there is a means to deal with the "problem" of speedboost, I am quite content in referring to these people as the whining **** that they are. I had a suspicion that the ability to negate the supposed downside of SB wouldn't eliminate the crybabies, and lo! I was right. My Cold fender is rejoicing in ways illegal. On the MM end of things, my thermal MMs have become a joy to play where once they were tedium made flesh. Truly one of the greatest QoL improvements to the game since launch. |
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Stop you! Making sense like that! Shame on you.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
The recharge times on the buffs sets that got buffed were made so they could buff the whole team from day 1. The recharge on something like Fort meant it was never designed to be on the whole team in the first place.
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But it also wasn't meant to be be used only one person like AB. It was meant to be used on as many people as possible, and given it's short duration, that equals a low qol for anyone who uses it. Yes, it would be way to powerful if it were a group buff, but after this buff (and largely before it), empathy is by far the least enjoyable defender to play. The QoL is in the toilet.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
The recharge times on the buffs sets that got buffed were made so they could buff the whole team from day 1. The recharge on something like Fort meant it was never designed to be on the whole team in the first place.
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Yeah, well, that's just like uh, your opinion man.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
empathy is by far the least enjoyable defender to play. The QoL is in the toilet.
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I don't find active debuffing any more fun than active buffing, and just blasting all the time isn't that fun either. Fun is quite subjective in this case and shouldn't be a factor.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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This is a tough thing to think about for me. I have always been against this change, even though I completely understand the benefits and also understand why people would prefer this new way. I have been unable to play my Kin since they announced the change, because everytime I looked to log him in, I would get depressed about the loss of playstyle (I did log him in and play him on a Kahn once last week just to get one more play session before the change).|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Yeah, well, that's just like uh, your opinion man.
I don't find active debuffing any more fun than active buffing, and just blasting all the time isn't that fun either. Fun is quite subjective in this case and shouldn't be a factor. |
I think I look forward to this change on my Cold and FF defenders, although I have not yet logged them in since the change. I am sure I will grow to enjoy the new style even on my Kin (perhaps I will better be able to drain even AVs of their End).
I do feel kind of like Empathy becomes the odd man out. I am not looking for Empathy to be buffed (nor was I expecting to see Kin, Cold, Thermal, or Sonic buffed either), but I hear people say Fort would be OPd if it was a team wide buff. I think of the Cold shields + Sleet, and I am not so sure. Yes, I know I just compared 1 power to 3, but a teamwide Fort would not be OPd, since other defenders can easily match what Fort brings to the table. The Emp healing is good, but I don't think it is that good. Looking at entire powersets, I can't see AoE Fort + half uptime RAs + one AB + good healing as OPd relative to perma-FS, SB, ID+some healing or AM+EF+RI+LR+some healing or IS, GS, FW, Sleet, Benumb and Heat Loss or Hurricane+Freezing Rain+Tornado+LS+a small heal, etc.
I love my Emps as is, so I don't need a buff, however, I do not buy into the theory that AoE Fort would be OPd.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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And there's painfully BORING too, that change may make me play a shielder for the first time. Got burned out by all my playtime with emps and kins, but with shield sets you kinda feel obliged to keep them on the whole team all the time, half the team can live without SB for some seconds or minutes even, and fort cannot be cast on everyone anyway even on a permahasten emp which I have.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
I'm definitely rating this game for 3 year olds now.
There is painfully hard and then there is painfully easy. Now I just think favourable powersets for speed, ganking and spanking are just going to be even more favourable. |
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I was going to counter this with another set, but to be honest I'm not really sure I can disagree from my own play style, which admittedly, isn't everybody's. I have tried playing an Emp numerous times and at this point the only one I could stand to play was an Ill/emp who is stuck at 37 and hasn't been logged in 500+ days. Emp, as a set, to me fails higher up. Pretty much any other support set would feel more worthwhile. Again, IMO.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
empathy is by far the least enjoyable defender to play.
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I logged on a character that was boosted by the AoE buff and I have to say it is rather fantastic. I really need to dust off some Kins and play them.
Been thinking on this Empathy concern since the day the Q.O.L improvement was announced and came up with yet another way that Empathy could be salvaged.
Recovery Aura : change recovery to 100% base
Regen Aura : change regen base to 300%
Adrenaline Boost : Leave duration and recharge alone, reduce recovery to 100% and regen to 200%, make the power a PBAoE buff which affects the Defender and all within 25-30ft and add a 30sec buff when activated which has the same effect as a small break free.
Allow this power to be clicked while under status effects.
For those that would be offended by the inability of this power to overcome "nuke" sickness, allow the power to grant 25 endurance as a one time boost as well.
**anyone notice something missing ?**
Solo Empath fixed ! With the use of their tier 9 power they get a break free once every 90 sec on a mature build. Combined effects do not far exceed the normal current auras and the solo empath might actually survive a fight over +2(x3) when RAs are down.
He would have to get to level 32 first though. Hmmm sounds familiar.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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The 100% recharge buff. Also the large slow resistance. Stop nerfing my ally targeted powerset to make it more solo friendly! |
Originally Posted by Biospark
**anyone notice something missing ?**
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Play a rad if you want to solo. 
And WB, good to see you again.
(want your stuffs back?)
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Hehe, Thanks Strato !|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
The 100% recharge buff. Also the large slow resistance. Stop nerfing my ally targeted powerset to make it more solo friendly!
Play a rad if you want to solo. And WB, good to see you again. (want your stuffs back?) |
Hard to stay away, when every other game out there is not as good.
I was really, really unhappy about the way Incarnates turned out, but there is an outside chance of solo arcs, so we shall see.
and No to my stuffs
I am sure you put it to good use.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Fort is extremely easy to improve for QoL issues. Now, what I'm about to say does nothing for the overall power of the set, even though the other buffing sets did see a dramatic increase in power - I am merely addressing the QoL issue of constantly reapplying buffs.
Solution - make both duration and recharge of fort 3X longer. That puts it in the same neighborhood as the 4 minute shield buffs. But it doesn't allow you to keep it on more people than you currently can and it doesn't allow you to maintain it perm any sooner than you would have been able to without the change. All it does is allow the buffing process to occur less often. Pure QoL.
The "wow, this is the worst def set that doesn't have arrows" aspect can be left for a completely different solution.
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I am highlighting one thing you said here, which you may want to clarify or re-state.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
Fort is extremely easy to improve for QoL issues. Now, what I'm about to say does nothing for the overall power of the set, even though the other buffing sets did see a dramatic increase in power - I am merely addressing the QoL issue of constantly reapplying buffs.
Solution - make both duration and recharge of fort 3X longer. That puts it in the same neighborhood as the 4 minute shield buffs. But it doesn't allow you to keep it on more people than you currently can and it doesn't allow you to maintain it perm any sooner than you would have been able to without the change. All it does is allow the buffing process to occur less often. Pure QoL. The "wow, this is the worst def set that doesn't have arrows" aspect can be left for a completely different solution. |
This change did not increase any of the set's overall power. The effectiveness of each set has not changed. The "ease" of use did go up significantly. Perhaps you meant this and chose a different way to express it.
What others are saying, and which is completely true is that Empathy cannot get the same QOL boost without ALSO increasing its overall effectiveness. Sucks being an Empathy I guess. But that never seems to change.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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As someone who plays in trials, I disagree. This change was a FLAT OUT MAJOR INCREASE in power. Before this change, I might have seen 120% defense in trials on occasion. Since this change, in my attributes monitor my defense is OFTEN BLUE; I sit at the hard cap frequently. Before this change, I felt lucky to have Speed Boost even if I had Kin on my team. Now I seem to have it almost all the time. My resistances are frequently blue in the attribute monitor, a sweet 75% to most damage types.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
I am highlighting one thing you said here, which you may want to clarify or re-state.
This change did not increase any of the set's overall power. The effectiveness of each set has not changed. The "ease" of use did go up significantly. Perhaps you meant this and chose a different way to express it. What others are saying, and which is completely true is that Empathy cannot get the same QOL boost without ALSO increasing its overall effectiveness. Sucks being an Empathy I guess. But that never seems to change. |
The change may not be a big deal on small teams. Even full teams who are used to solid buffing may notice little change. But in leagues the change is DRAMATIC.
It should also be very useful for MMs. Even in regular teams buffing MM pets was not a usual mode of operation, but now they just get splash buffs. I have only run one event with my MM since the change, and it was a Lambda. It was so very good for the pets to have shields too.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Yeah cos people gank and spank normally even if there isn't the type of defender set that can look after a large bunch of blappers. However this change on those sets in the trial is also of benefit to the empath because it makes their job easier. But still, there is bound to be some twit who thinks that if the empath was any good they would of been healed asap, then times that twit by a few more all spread out from eachother needing that heal asap..partially why I prefer people to have an opinion on empaths when they've actually played one to know one. |
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
The change may not be a big deal on small teams. Even full teams who are used to solid buffing may notice little change. But in leagues the change is DRAMATIC.
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In small teams those benefiting of this change would now be able to offer great damage mitigation and blast more than the sets not benefitting from the change. Those ones not benefiting are partially reactive sets often played proactively where possible because coming out of an attack, or a buff on someone else, selecting team member and buff can take too long which is why I believe in lowering cast times on them.
I've enjoyed playing an empath, despite IOsets I am cack compared to what I was in 2005 but thats when I leveled her but I did get to level her with players who weren't 150ft away trying to be all pro, they tried to play within the limitations of an empath for best results and were within 80ft and LoS, when they needed help they got it there and then, removing the hide and go seek factor they allowed me more time for other stuff.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I believe this just proves the point that buffing was tedious and full of issues. You COULD have had those same effects before, but would have required all the buffers to be completely prompt on keeping everyone "buffed" 100% of the time.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
As someone who plays in trials, I disagree. This change was a FLAT OUT MAJOR INCREASE in power. Before this change, I might have seen 120% defense in trials on occasion. Since this change, in my attributes monitor my defense is OFTEN BLUE; I sit at the hard cap frequently. Before this change, I felt lucky to have Speed Boost even if I had Kin on my team. Now I seem to have it almost all the time. My resistances are frequently blue in the attribute monitor, a sweet 75% to most damage types.
The change may not be a big deal on small teams. Even full teams who are used to solid buffing may notice little change. But in leagues the change is DRAMATIC. It should also be very useful for MMs. Even in regular teams buffing MM pets was not a usual mode of operation, but now they just get splash buffs. I have only run one event with my MM since the change, and it was a Lambda. It was so very good for the pets to have shields too. |
I will however conceed that it is an increase in power because each of the affected sets can spend MORE time blasting, meaning their Damage contribution just went up.
So, now I am really bummed about Empathy not being included in this QOL improvement.
I want to spend more time blasting too !!
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
is there a way too turn this off? I know i play often with people that dont like bubbles, or dont want speed boost. (both powers can make people that are suspetible to motion sickness when playing) the bubble cause of its shimmer, and speed boost cause you just move really quick.
Would really suck being on a team with someone that id rather skip buffing, then make the whole team go without.
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Talk to Null the Gull in pocket D.
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Originally Posted by SuperJe
and speed boost cause you just move really quick.
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I believe THEY have to talk to Null, who turns off such effects for THEM. The buffer isn't the one who has to talk to Null. I don't believe there's any way to make your own powers not work on others like that.
But really, if they have an issue, it's their responsibility to go use the fix.
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No, the power of the sets went up as well. I used the words I intended to use. My ill/sonic went from buffing and then standing around doing nothing waiting for my energy to come back enough to PA, to buffing and then blasting and holding away because I was using 1/7th the amount of energy to do the same job. That is a dramatic increase in power. On the trials, it's even more dramatic. Whether you count it as more players (and collaterally pets) buffed OR much less energy and time spent buffing everyone (leaving more for blasting and/or controlling), it still represents a huge leap in power.
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Originally Posted by Biospark
I am highlighting one thing you said here, which you may want to clarify or re-state.
This change did not increase any of the set's overall power. The effectiveness of each set has not changed. The "ease" of use did go up significantly. Perhaps you meant this and chose a different way to express it. |
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I stand corrected. StratoNexus and you have explained your point successfully.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
No, the power of the sets went up as well. I used the words I intended to use. My ill/sonic went from buffing and then standing around doing nothing waiting for my energy to come back enough to PA, to buffing and then blasting and holding away because I was using 1/7th the amount of energy to do the same job. That is a dramatic increase in power. On the trials, it's even more dramatic. Whether you count it as more players (and collaterally pets) buffed OR much less energy and time spent buffing everyone (leaving more for blasting and/or controlling), it still represents a huge leap in power.
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My original comment still holds true in the spirit of which I took this point, and that is the fact that you are not "increasing" the survivability of any one team member by more that you could previously. You are simply increasing what you yourself can contribute over and above that previous amount of survival-per-time-spent-buffing.
Gosh! If I keep thinking about this and how my Empath got left out in the cold, I am really going to be angry. Good thing there is a Delete button for those times.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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No! Empathy is still fun. Also, it is always good to keep it around in case they buff it. No one expected Kin to get buffed, maybe Emps will too one day.
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Originally Posted by Biospark
Gosh! If I keep thinking about this and how my Empath got left out in the cold, I am really going to be angry. Good thing there is a Delete button for those times.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
No! Empathy is still fun. Also, it is always good to keep it around in case they buff it. No one expected Kin to get buffed, maybe Emps will too one day.
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This is what I have been thinking since about 2005. You could be right Strato! Usually are.
Not to worry, Biospark is not going anywhere, except a dusty shelf.
There are other toys to play with.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Prior to the change in a typical team the hardest defender to be totally fantastic with and perma shield everyone imo is probably the kin, its hard, but then often so unnecessary so it dont matter. Then comes the Empathy, Thermal, Pain all close together if you are proactive because people do random stuff, then comes everybody else. Sonic, Cold and Forcefield are easier to play, to me anyway.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.