Because we're still waiting on Ninjitsu Scrappers!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
They just haven't done them. I'm curious how as is it is ported due to the devs seeming to not want scrappers to be aggro generators compared to tanks and brutes and that's what Ice is best for.
Quote:
The developers rarely tell players reasons for why they proliferate some power sets and not others.|
Originally Posted by Level
I'm just curious as to why CoH hasn't released an ice scrapper yet? The powers are there and ready to use. I've been away from the game for a while and love the new implementations, but I thought I'd ask the populace about this.
|
As far as I am aware the only power-sets that have received developer comment on are:
- Ice Armor for Brutes: commented on back during CoV beta. Ice Armor's slows didn't work as expected. Players argue that the methods of playing Brutes have changed with IO's alone, never-minding the change to Fury generation in I18.
- Illusion Control for Dominators: I believe this has been shot down multiple times in the closed beta forums when power-proliferation are tested and somebody makes the inevitable request. Not going to go into the reasons here since this is a pretty-sore point for many players.
- Energy Aura for Scrappers / Tanks: The developers have admitted that Energy Aura is an Under-performing set and have explicitly stated it never worked like they thought it would. Rumor has it that the devs are developing a "kinetic armor" set using the same effect-generation tech used in Electric-Control that will supersede Energy Aura. No official comment has been made.
Sorry we don't have more information for you, but we can only tell you what the devs tell us.
Quote:
They failed with Shields then. |
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
They just haven't done them. I'm curious how as is it is ported due to the devs seeming to not want scrappers to be aggro generators compared to tanks and brutes and that's what Ice is best for.
|
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I read the title confused as to why someone on the forums was looking for an ice scraper.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Quote:
They do the easiest ones first. The others simply fall under "we just haven't gotten to them yet."|
Originally Posted by je_saist
The developers rarely tell players reasons for why they proliferate some power sets and not others.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Ice Armor for Brutes: commented on back during CoV beta. Ice Armor's slows didn't work as expected. Players argue that the methods of playing Brutes have changed with IO's alone, never-minding the change to Fury generation in I18.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
As far as I am aware the only power-sets that have received developer comment on are:
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Illusion Control for Dominators: I believe this has been shot down multiple times in the closed beta forums when power-proliferation are tested and somebody makes the inevitable request. Not going to go into the reasons here since this is a pretty-sore point for many players.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Energy Aura for Scrappers / Tanks: The developers have admitted that Energy Aura is an Under-performing set and have explicitly stated it never worked like they thought it would.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Rumor has it that the devs are developing a "kinetic armor" set using the same effect-generation tech used in Electric-Control that will supersede Energy Aura. No official comment has been made.
|
Quote:
It's odd because it's not a 100% rule so I'm kind of unsure why /sr has a taunt aura for brutes, but not scrappers.
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
They failed with Shields then.
|
Quote:
Because /SR had the taunt aura ADDED in while it was being ported (should be noted however, that /EA lacks a taunt aura, so it's not like /SR needed to have it for Brutes, but I don't deny that it's quite good to have on the Brute).|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
It's odd because it's not a 100% rule so I'm kind of unsure why /sr has a taunt aura for brutes, but not scrappers.
|
Scrappers have always had /SR, but it didn't have the taunt aura to begin with. Adding in the taunt aura would basically screw over those with /SR who don't want the taunt aura.
Those who want a taunt aura added to /SR for Scrappers can always roll a Brute.
Personally I hope /SR for Scrappers never gets a taunt aura, specifically because that's one big change that doesn't need to happen for a /SR scrapper player who doesn't care for the taunt. Those who want it added, rolled it up knowing it wasnt there.
As for Energy Aura, yes it was said to be balanced. I figure the buff to it will happen when the set gets ported over to Tankers/Scrappers, with a change in Conserve Power (just like with Electric Armor). Here's hoping one of those changes in EA is the ability to max Energy Resists (which is what I really wish EA did now to tack on with it's Energy Defense).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Yeah, much as I'd personally love a taunt aura, I agree it shouldn't be added. Some poeple hate them, and I bet a lot of people took Super Reflexes with a ninja concept, for instance, and having a taunt aura would run completely counter to that. I rolled mine knowing it didn't have one. Clicking on "Super Reflexes" meant I was willing to accept that drawback.
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Personally I hope /SR for Scrappers never gets a taunt aura, specifically because that's one big change that doesn't need to happen for a /SR scrapper player who doesn't care for the taunt. Those who want it added, rolled it up knowing it wasnt there.
|
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Its also a benefit to players whose builds are simply not up to withstanding the added incoming aggro.|
Originally Posted by Werner
Clicking on "Super Reflexes" meant I was willing to accept that drawback.
|
Whereas Invuln, SD & WP all have mechanical reasons for their taunt effects - SR doesn't have an specific need to be surrounded by enemies.
Now if only they could turn EA into a set that makes any kind of sense.
As much derision as EA gets, one of my toughest characters is an EA brute and he does quite well. EA is very IO'able. It caters to a different play style and trades pure toughness for some utility. I wouldn't be saddened by a buff for selfish reasons, but really it's better than people give it credit for.
Also, several of you have said EA is "balanced", but from the context of your post I think you mean "UN-balanced". Being balanced is a good thing, unbalanced is bad.
Back on topic, I really really really want an Ice / Ice scrapper and have wanted one since the game came out. Every time the devs start talking about proliferation I hope it will make the cut...but I'm still waiting...
Quote:
Here's is what I'm talking about it being "balanced."|
Originally Posted by KillerShrike
Also, several of you have said EA is "balanced", but from the context of your post I think you mean "UN-balanced". Being balanced is a good thing, unbalanced is bad.
|
Quote:
| Let's start with Energy Aura for Brutes and Stalkers. Energy Aura has had a poor reputation from the start, and while it is "balanced" with the other protective powersets using the original metrics, it has been shown that those metrics did not take certain key factors into consideration - namely Regeneration and Healing effects. |
Quote:
Which sums up to "it was balanced against metrics that we now know are invalid, thus EA is not actually balanced, and needs to be re-balanced using better data."|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Here's is what I'm talking about it being "balanced."
Quote:
|
Correspondingly, they added a slight buff, most noticeably the heal to Energy Drain. On my 50 EA with Energy Drain slotted with a IO Heal set and the Spiritual Incarnate that secondarily enhances healing, ED adds 100 health per enemy hit. It's not a wait-till-the-last-second panic button, but on the other hand Energy Drain is on a fast recharge. It definitely makes a difference.
For me the main area that EA gets shafted on is DDR which is only around 50% maxed. As a primarily DEF based set, it is brutal to get your DEF cascaded away. I wish it were enhanceable even to 75%. EA also doesn't get much love vs Energy, which makes no sense; it gets shafted vs Negative however. Thematically EA should have best-of-class protection vs Energy damage. However, even with it's problems it is still a playable set.
But anyway, this is turning into a threadjack; there are EA threads in the Brute forum for this kind of chatter. Lets return it to the regularly scheduled Ice/Ice Scrapper dialogue?
Quote:
I just noticed yesterday (late, I know) that scrappers get Hibernate in the Mako patron pool...|
Originally Posted by KillerShrike
Lets return it to the regularly scheduled Ice/Ice Scrapper dialogue?
|
Which tells me that they probably won't get /ice because devs hate changing (and won't remove) powers already in game and won't duplicate powers (IIRC). I *suppose* they could make an /ice without Hibernate but they also don't seem to be fans of doing much work to make powersets different when they proliferate them... and plus, /ice just wouldn't be ice without Hibernate.
Still a chance for brutes at least!
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
Quote:
I have to agree! Ice Armor without Hibernate is not Ice Armor! It was one of my favorite powers to take on my Ice/Ice Tanker! I'd hate to have to go Mako Patron just to get that in for theme.|
Originally Posted by Lobster
I just noticed yesterday (late, I know) that scrappers get Hibernate in the Mako patron pool...
Which tells me that they probably won't get /ice because devs hate changing (and won't remove) powers already in game and won't duplicate powers (IIRC). I *suppose* they could make an /ice without Hibernate but they also don't seem to be fans of doing much work to make powersets different when they proliferate them... and plus, /ice just wouldn't be ice without Hibernate. Still a chance for brutes at least! |
Of course does this also mean /Ice Armor Stalkers aren't possible? :/
[Edit] Fixed some bad wording!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
They will have the same issues... Hibernate is listed for them as well. I only have 1 or 2 played stalkers, and only 1 scrapper redside, so I just never noticed. Bummers.
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I have to agree! Ice Armor without Ice Armor is not Ice Armor! It was one of my favorite powers to take on my Ice/Ice Tanker! I'd hate to have to go Mako Patron just to get that in for theme.
Of course does this also mean /Ice Armor Stalkers aren't possible? :/ |
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
Chiming in on the Energy Armor - recently I rolled a KM/EA stalker with the idea of hitting build up over and over again, and EA was kinda a thematic choice on top of being something different.
I have to say, EA is not that bad on a stalker at all IMO. He's only 29, using SOs, and I can't say it's worse than anything else I've played. I kinda wish Energy Drain's effect was quicker but I am pretty sure that was calculated.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
This. Thisthisthisthisthis. Theeeeeeeeeeeees.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Because we're still waiting on Ninjitsu Scrappers!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I have to agree! Ice Armor without Ice Armor is not Ice Armor! It was one of my favorite powers to take on my Ice/Ice Tanker! I'd hate to have to go Mako Patron just to get that in for theme.
Of course does this also mean /Ice Armor Stalkers aren't possible? :/ |
Can't Ninjitsu Stalkers get Caltrops twice now that they can access Scrapper APPs?
Quote:
Nope. They replaced Caltrops with Physical Perfection, for Stalkers.|
Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly
This. Thisthisthisthisthis. Theeeeeeeeeeeees.
Can't Ninjitsu Stalkers get Caltrops twice now that they can access Scrapper APPs? |
Stalkers also get Superior Conditioning instead of Conserve Power for Body Mastery, and I'd love to have that option on my Scrappers over Conserve Power.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Ice armor without hibernate....
I dont know if anyone remembers the guy, but in the waaaaay back machine there was a player named Circeus that pretty much mastered his Ice tanker back in like I2 when ice armor was really quite horrendous compared to the other....3 primary sets...lol, the good ol days indeed.
Anyway, he had dreamed up a new tier 9 as a theoretical revamp to ice armor he was proposing. his revamp had taken some of the regen/recov in Hibernate and split it into a few other powers, and then made a new tier 9 he named "Abominable"
in short, it was similar to granite armor, but without th movement penalty and I think without the dmg redux, but it also didnt have the monstrous gain in res/def. I think it allowed the other toggles to still run and added some minor resists and a little def. It also transformed the player into one of those giant snow monsters(not like winter lord giant, minion size).
I still bring that idea up once in a while, because i thought it was awsomesauce. First, it would avoid all the problems with "onoz patron powers!!" and second, YOU GET TO BE A SNOW MONSTER!! It does need to come standard with the roar and come get some idle animations built in, and of course the rediculous ragdoll physics if you were to actually be overcome by knockback.
I dont know however how much animation work would need to be done to have the snow monsters do martial arts kicks, wield broadswords, swing claws or a katana, or perform a spine burst- so maybe the idea has grown outdated.
As for ice swords, I say bring it on. I have been wanting to run that attack set, but I just dont play tanks anymore. I would actually be really pumped to see Ice/ coming soon for scrappers.
Liberty server
Eldagore lvl 50 Inv/ss, co-founder of The Legion of Smash
3.5 servers of alts....I need help.
May the rawk be with you.
Arc #'s
107020 Uberbots!
93496 A Pawn in Time
Quote:
You say this, but I doubt Ice Melee will be popular among the players.|
Originally Posted by Eldagore
As for ice swords, I say bring it on. I have been wanting to run that attack set, but I just dont play tanks anymore. I would actually be really pumped to see Ice/ coming soon for scrappers.
|
It'll be cool to have, and Frozen Aura would just be awesome, but it's damage is like one of the lowest for Tankers if I recall correctly, and I I can't imagine it being high up there on the Scrapper lists...thusly people will moan about it being low damage.
Seeing this would be the case, it only makes sense to port Ninjitsu as you can't port Ice Melee without Ice Armor...sooo...Super Strength/Ninjitsu!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I really like this idea. However, I wish they would just remove the nophase from hibernate while in PvE areas, allow it to work with enhancements like Mind Link - can't use recharge enhancements but you can use set IOs with recharge components - and allow it to be affected by recharge buffs.
|
Originally Posted by Eldagore
Ice armor without hibernate....
I dont know if anyone remembers the guy, but in the waaaaay back machine there was a player named Circeus that pretty much mastered his Ice tanker back in like I2 when ice armor was really quite horrendous compared to the other....3 primary sets...lol, the good ol days indeed. Anyway, he had dreamed up a new tier 9 as a theoretical revamp to ice armor he was proposing. his revamp had taken some of the regen/recov in Hibernate and split it into a few other powers, and then made a new tier 9 he named "Abominable" in short, it was similar to granite armor, but without th movement penalty and I think without the dmg redux, but it also didnt have the monstrous gain in res/def. I think it allowed the other toggles to still run and added some minor resists and a little def. It also transformed the player into one of those giant snow monsters(not like winter lord giant, minion size). I still bring that idea up once in a while, because i thought it was awsomesauce. First, it would avoid all the problems with "onoz patron powers!!" and second, YOU GET TO BE A SNOW MONSTER!! It does need to come standard with the roar and come get some idle animations built in, and of course the rediculous ragdoll physics if you were to actually be overcome by knockback. I dont know however how much animation work would need to be done to have the snow monsters do martial arts kicks, wield broadswords, swing claws or a katana, or perform a spine burst- so maybe the idea has grown outdated. As for ice swords, I say bring it on. I have been wanting to run that attack set, but I just dont play tanks anymore. I would actually be really pumped to see Ice/ coming soon for scrappers. |
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
There may be Ice Scrappers coming our way. 
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Quote:
<_< Much much later as we all know they're already working on i21 and they just now wrote it down >_>
|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
|
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I'm just curious as to why CoH hasn't released an ice scrapper yet? The powers are there and ready to use. I've been away from the game for a while and love the new implementations, but I thought I'd ask the populace about this.