Just use it before dragons tail, and you'll be golden.
-Largo
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It raises your critical hit chance from 5-10% to 33% on your attack immediately following it. I believe the effect lasts for 5 seconds, but I'm not sure on that.
It just increases the percentage chance of landing a crit, it does not guarantee one.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
If it lasts for five seconds, then that wouldn't be too bad. I can usually squeeze an attack in within three seconds of Eagle's Claw no problem. A 33% chance, however, is something I'd expect to show me more criticals than I'm seeing. Not literally one every three attacks, but more than I seem to be seeing just the same. I'll keep an eye on that. Might feel a bit better when I have slotted the power some, as it currently only has its default accuracy slot.
So, the power icon is wrong, then? Should I take it as fact that it disappears before the boosted critical chance buff does?
Sometimes I wish I could see to-hit rolls for separate power effects, just so I know what's happening behind the scenes.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Iirc, due to timing, short duration, server lag, blah blah, it's better to have the next attack queued while Eagle's Claw is animating.
The effect is much easier to appreciate with Dragon Tail.
The crit chance part is right. The 5 second duration isn't, unless Arcanaville got that changed and I missed the memo. Last I heard, it was 2 seconds long, which means you have to queue up an attack before Eagle's Claw is finished animating to even get the benefit, and there's no possible way to get it to apply for more than one attack. Note that you don't have to activate the attack in that window to get the buff, you just have to queue it up within that window.
Best strategy has already been said: Open with Eagle's Claw, Dragon's tail immediately and enjoy the crit spam. I think I got lucky one time and had up to 8/10 crits. More likely to just see 3-4, but even that is a marked improvement over the typical 1-2.
It's a nice buff, but should be better documented. And have the duration improved a bit, for easier use.
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I don't know what this means.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The power's "real numbers" are dog.
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Eagle's Claw has several components:
- Damage (it's a fairly hard-hitting attack, although the lengthy animation time lowers its overall DPS)
- 15% chance to crit (itself). Note this is higher than a normal Scrapper attack, which would be 5% on minions and below, or 10% on LTs and above
- 3 magnitude stun for 4.77s
- An increase of 33% to the crit chance of the next attack. This increases the following attack's crit odds not TO 33% but PLUS 33%, so, for example, a typical attack that crits 5% on minions and below, or 10% on LTs and above, would be critting 38% on minions and 43% on LTs and up.
Note that the increased crit effect for the following attack has a very short time window and it starts during the animation, so you have very little time to fool around. You can't EC and then move to a target and get the bonus; you can't EC and then think about what attack to use next; you pretty much have to decide immediately and queue up the following attack while EC is animating. And forget trying to get TWO attacks un before the crit binus expires. Also, it only works for Martial Arts attacks, not, say, Fireball.
Since there's only one AoE Martial Arts attack, Dragon's Tail, a lot of people like to use EC and follow it with DT, which gives more chances to roll the enhanced crit. The effect really does help MA's area damage output. It can be used on other attacks, though. Sometimes when fighting a single hard target I will use EC followed by my biggest-damage attack, like Crippling Axe Kick; sometimes I choose Storm Kick, because it has its own enhanced chance to crit, which EC pushes even higher (48% against a boss!).
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
What does Eagle's Claw do?
Hits like a truck and looks damned cool doing it.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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It's an expletive I made up by chance. Once, in chat, I attempted to say something to the effect of "Doh! I knew I was missing something!" but mistyped and what came out was "Dog! I knew I was missing something!" In this context, the word "dog" appeared to me to be used similar to the word "damn" or "crap," which made me laugh and caused me to start using it as a general-purpose expletive. So when I say "the real numbers are dog" I really mean "the real numbers are crap" or "the real numbers are nonsense," not because I have anything against dogs (I don't), but because I think it's funny yet confusing |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
I don't know what this means.
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Eagle's Claw has several components:
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| Damage (it's a fairly hard-hitting attack, although the lengthy animation time lowers its overall DPS) |
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| 15% chance to crit (itself). Note this is higher than a normal Scrapper attack, which would be 5% on minions and below, or 10% on LTs and above |
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| 3 magnitude stun for 4.77s |
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| ]An increase of 33% to the crit chance of the next attack. This increases the following attack's crit odds not TO 33% but PLUS 33%, so, for example, a typical attack that crits 5% on minions and below, or 10% on LTs and above, would be critting 38% on minions and 43% on LTs and up. |
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| Note that the increased crit effect for the following attack has a very short time window and it starts during the animation, so you have very little time to fool around. You can't EC and then move to a target and get the bonus; you can't EC and then think about what attack to use next; you pretty much have to decide immediately and queue up the following attack while EC is animating. And forget trying to get TWO attacks un before the crit binus expires. Also, it only works for Martial Arts attacks, not, say, Fireball. |
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| Since there's only one AoE Martial Arts attack, Dragon's Tail, a lot of people like to use EC and follow it with DT, which gives more chances to roll the enhanced crit. The effect really does help MA's area damage output. It can be used on other attacks, though. Sometimes when fighting a single hard target I will use EC followed by my biggest-damage attack, like Crippling Axe Kick; sometimes I choose Storm Kick, because it has its own enhanced chance to crit, which EC pushes even higher (48% against a boss!). |
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Thank you for the explanation, everybody. I'm not sure how happy I am with the Critical Chance design, but at least now that I know what it's doing, I can try and make better use of it. And who knows? It could well have been operator error which kept me from seeing the results I was expecting. I'm not too proud to admit that. So thank you
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I got it right away. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
It's an expletive I made up by chance. Once, in chat, I attempted to say something to the effect of "Doh! I knew I was missing something!" but mistyped and what came out was "Dog! I knew I was missing something!" In this context, the word "dog" appeared to me to be used similar to the word "damn" or "crap," which made me laugh and caused me to start using it as a general-purpose expletive. So when I say "the real numbers are dog" I really mean "the real numbers are crap" or "the real numbers are nonsense," not because I have anything against dogs (I don't), but because I think it's funny yet confusing
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Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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Issue 18 Patch Notes:|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
This is the first time I've heard of the critical chances stacking... Interesting. Doesn't this mean I should be seeing even more criticals, then?
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(That exact quote was harder to find than I expected.)
I may be misinterpreting, but it says BY 33%, not TO 33%.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Sam, I'd say your problem is that you really need to queue up that next attack while EC animates.
That 2 second window starts while in the animation of EC. It's not EC finishes animating THEN gives the +33% chance to crit (which is what I last recall it being as well +33% on top of whatever your normal crit chance is)...but rather it's "Oh look I'm jumping in the air, about to extend the leg for the kick, I better click that next attack or I'll miss the extra crit bonus!"
They should really increase the length of that crit window imo, but I think they kept it short so some really good people didn't get TWO attacks off in a row with an additional +CRIT chance.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I agree that they should. As I said before - why not make it a mini-combo like in Dual Blades? It doesn't have to be marked with rings around the powers or even announced as such, so long as it gives a longer window of opportunity to act in but cancels as soon as you throw an attack.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
They should really increase the length of that crit window imo, but I think they kept it short so some really good people didn't get TWO attacks off in a row with an additional +CRIT chance.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I still don't think even six seconds would be out of line for the crit chance. Especially with how laggy things can get in game at times, a little more leeway would be nice, and hardly overpowered, either.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Sam, I'd say your problem is that you really need to queue up that next attack while EC animates.
That 2 second window starts while in the animation of EC. It's not EC finishes animating THEN gives the +33% chance to crit (which is what I last recall it being as well +33% on top of whatever your normal crit chance is)...but rather it's "Oh look I'm jumping in the air, about to extend the leg for the kick, I better click that next attack or I'll miss the extra crit bonus!" They should really increase the length of that crit window imo, but I think they kept it short so some really good people didn't get TWO attacks off in a row with an additional +CRIT chance. |
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
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Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Or just a simple +33% chance to the next attack with no time window.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I still don't think even six seconds would be out of line for the crit chance. Especially with how laggy things can get in game at times, a little more leeway would be nice, and hardly overpowered, either.
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Would it really be that game breaking for that?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Probably much more simple to implement, but maybe not. Would be a much more easy for players to use, though... I do like that idea. Makes me wonder why Castle didn't do it when designing this... or whoever from powers did it.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Or just a simple +33% chance to the next attack with no time window.
Would it really be that game breaking for that? |
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Probably because the way they did it was easier to implement. It gives you a buff that goes away when its duration expires, like any other buff. Adding a buff that can be canceled in another way would have probably required more work.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Probably much more simple to implement, but maybe not. Would be a much more easy for players to use, though... I do like that idea. Makes me wonder why Castle didn't do it when designing this... or whoever from powers did it.
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I do think the duration should be extended, to where it's long enough that you can switch targets for your next attack and still get the added crit chance, but short enough that you can only apply it to the next attack. I'm thinking 2.75 seconds. Or they can shorten the animation of Eagle's Claw, I wouldn't complain if that happened either.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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qft
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Originally Posted by starflier
hits like a truck and looks damned cool doing it.
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UNION @Flitz 50, Lead Hose 50, Red Rag 50
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..and many more!
EC + DT is nice in a crowd, but EC + CAK is pretty awesome for single target damage also.
With the recent MA buffs, CAK does decent damage, and it crits reliably after EC.
As to outcome, I haven't taken the time to grind data or employ spread sheets, but before the MA buff I couldn't generate quite enough DPS to pass the rikti pylon challenge on my 50 MA/SR, but afterwards I could do it approximately 3 times out of 5 attempts (sometimes the RNG came up against me and the pylon wiped me out; SR flukeyness), though it took a while.
The reliable crit on CAK after EC was a nice spike in my DPS and I believe it is what pushed me over the top.
With the incarnate interface added on top of that it's almost cake to do the rikti pylon, but that's another subject.
Eagle's Claw + Cobra Strike does almost as much damage, and stacks the stun (well, that 75% of the time CS stuns, anyway).
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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That's actually what it was originally conceived to be. Someone somewhere, maybe Castle, maybe someone else, overrode that and added the timer, which not only made it more complex, it also made it twitchy to where you need to queue your next attack to have a guaranteed chance of it going off.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Or just a simple +33% chance to the next attack with no time window.
Would it really be that game breaking for that? |
The problem with the 2 second duration is that its a bit misleading. Eagle's Claw has 2.53 second cast time. All of its effects take effect 1.3 seconds after it activates. That means the first 1.23 seconds of the crit chance buff take place *within* Eagle's Claw's cast time. The buff only lingers for 0.77 seconds after Eagle's Claw finishes casting, and you can't even activate another power until an additional 0.24 seconds elapses due to Arcanatime lag, which means you really only have 0.53 seconds to get that next attack off. If you have an attack queued that's not hard, but if you are clicking an attack after Eagle's Claw hits something, you might have 0.25 seconds of lag or more between pushing the button and the server getting the signal. That is very thin timing. Because *no* Martial Arts attack takes less than 0.83 seconds to cast and less than 1.0 seconds of Arcanatime expended, they could always at least increase the buff duration by at least 0.25 seconds with zero chance of the buff stacking onto two attacks. But it would be better to use a mode setting to just crit buff the next attack and only the next attack within a more generous window, like say five seconds.
Its on my list of things to twist Black Scorpion's arm about.
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It also looks very very cool.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Eagle's Claw + Cobra Strike does almost as much damage, and stacks the stun (well, that 75% of the time CS stuns, anyway).
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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And I sincerely hope you are successful |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its on my list of things to twist Black Scorpion's arm about.
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The idea behind the heightened critical chance after Eagle's Claw is very cool, and it does give Martial Arts a LOT more flexibility than I originally thought it would, but the way it's hooked up now is just horrid. City of Heroes is not a game about split-second twitch reflexes, so giving us a window of opportunity to exploit a mechanic that, with all the limitations accounted for, is less than a second, is just bad form.I know for a fact that the game is capable of doing better. We've seen it in Dual Blades, where one attack sets the player in a mode where another attack could have an additional effect. We've seen it with Dual Pistols where one power effect from one power can alter the chance for another power effect in another power to occur. There are better mechanics, and these existed prior to the Martial Arts changes. I sincerely hope we use one of them so that we could have the same functionality without the stress to my nerves.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
It also looks very very cool.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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My all-time favorite is finishing off a boss with Eagle's Claw and having Practiced Brawler animate just as I land. Waaaay too stylish.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Certain Martial Arts combinations look incredibly cool. My personal favourite is Strom Kick -> Dragon's Tail, a sort of double spin kick. Eagle's Claw -> Crane Kick also looks pretty cool, though for reasons I cannot describe. It sort of looks like a single flowing motion.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Heh, and if they could extend the range of dragon's tail, so that I could hit a foe with it after the are sent flying by crane kick then follow up with some ranged attack, I'd be in heaven.
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
I apologise if this question has been raised before (as it probably has), but I honestly can't figure out what the Scrapper version of Eagle's Claw has been doing since the I18 power changes. I'm asking only now since I deleted my level 50 MA/Inv Scrapper and rerolled her as a SS/Inv Brute (now also 50) so I had nothing to test with. But I'm playing around with the power now and I'm not sure what I'm seeing.
The power's "real numbers" are dog. I don't look at them since they're missing that crucial critical hit bonus. I know the power is supposed to increase my chance to score critical hits with other Martial Arts powers after I use it, partially because my combat spam says "You increase the Critical Chance of your next attack." when I use it, but... By how much? For how long? Counted from when? What powers does it apply to? The only other place I can see this even admitted to is the power's basic stats, which include a +Speical, but the power's long and short descriptions don't feature this that I've been able to see.
I've been alternately told that the power gives me an extra 15% chance to score a critical, an extra 25% chance and an extra 30% chance by different people. I'm not told if this is instead of or on top of the powers' existing "5% minion 10% lieutenant and up" chance, but I feel it's safe to assume it's "instead." I'm also told that this effect lasts for two seconds.
My reason for asking despite being told all this is because I ain't seeing it. Yeah, I'll occasionally see a critical hit after Eagle's Claw, but that's rare enough to be 1 in 20, which is within my powers' normal critical chance anyway. I was told to watch out for a buff bar buff icon from Eagle's Claw, and indeed one exists. Only it disappears before the power is even done animating.
This concerns me. If the buff indeed lasts for 2 seconds and starts when the power starts as the buff icon would suggest, then the buff seems to be expiring before I can even fire off another power, because Eagle's Claw has a 2.53 second animation, give or take Arcanatime, which is over half a second longer than the buff is supposed to be. That might explain why I'm not seeing it.
If this sounds like a rant or a complaint, it's not. I just want to know exactly what the power does, both so I will know how to use it and so I'll know if I want to see something happen to it. And the in-game resources have so far FAILED to deliver the relevant information completely and entirely.
Does anyone knows what this power actually does?