/Signed
Do like
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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That would work.
The other option would be making them powerful enough that they're worth the crash.
Buff the damage to the point where they can take out an entire spawn of +4s, bosses included, and I'd use them every time they were up, crash or no.
/signed as long as it includes Dreadful Wail! 
Defiant EUQuaver: Kinetics/Sonic Defender
Semiquaver: Sonic/Kinetics Corruptor
See? People always forget about Sonic Blast...
But I'd personally be more behind ramping up the nukes so they're worth the crash instead.
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I kinda agree with the original poster, that dreadful wail should remain the exception. After all, it's supposed to be dreadful ^_^
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Originally Posted by Quaver
/signed as long as it includes Dreadful Wail!
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add Quasar (Warshade) and the PB equivalent and I /sign.
Make a man a fire and keep him warm for the day, SET a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Incarnates: K'lir(Fire/Dark Corr):Hot-House Flower(Plant/Fire Dom):Kinrad X(Kin/Rad Def):Itsy-Bitsy Spider(Crab):Two Ton Tony(Mace/WP Broot):Teeny Weeny Widow(Fortunata/Widow) : Zeroth Law (Ice/Fire Tank)
Uh, yeah, I knew about those other nukes. I was just making sure YOU knew.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
/signed for those fixes.
But as others have said, I could also get behind the "raise the damage" alternative (balanced across the individual ATs, of course). At least on Blasters, when they pop that nuke, the rest of the team should either be standing there drop-jawed or saying, "Psh, showoff..."
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
So far, the only nukes that I've found actually worth it are on my Warshade, provided I have full Eclipse and Mire saturation, and that takes some leveraging to get....and Inferno with BU and Aim. And then everything that isn't +3/+4 burns.
I used it recently in RWZ teaming to a stunned silence, followed only by 'Holy HELL Al!'
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Perhaps a +1 to target cap after lvl 41 for a 25 target cap at 50? Just the fact it can be slotted for damage/rech, can take procs and is affected by interface should be enough to keep it in the running with Judgement.
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Originally Posted by Winterminal
But as others have said, I could also get behind the "raise the damage" alternative (balanced across the individual ATs, of course). At least on Blasters, when they pop that nuke, the rest of the team should either be standing there drop-jawed or saying, "Psh, showoff..."
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Really, I think it's the crash that's the dealbreaker.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
I'm all for buffing nukes with crashes to some extent, but I dislike the idea of making them scale to become more endurance efficient the closer to 50 you get.
Never surrender! Never give up!
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Emphasis mine.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
Then, starting at level 41, reduce the -End effect by 6% and the -Recovery effect by 10% per level. At 50 the -Recovery effect will be gone, and the -end will be down to 40%. With the 20.8 end cost, that means you'll lose about 60 endurance using a nuke, a lot, but not showstopping. This would make nukes much more usable in the late game.
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This part would require reworking the crash mechanics, except for Blizzard. The end drain is per mob so even at 40end if you hit 2 mobs or more it still bottoms your end out. (Blizzard penalizes end upon summoning the pet, which is why it bottoms your end even if there are no mobs at all nearby when you cast it. It only crashes your end once though, so if it were reduced to 40end instead of 100 it would work fine.)
Thunderous Blast is already only -40end/target.
The end crash would have to be changed to either only ever penalize you once, or to be a much smaller penalty per target.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
I know how it works, and yes, they would have to change it so using the power is what drains you, and not hitting things. Blizzard already does it that way, in fact.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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I agree. The original Launch game design philosophy was heavily based around penalising mechanics. You get great regeneration in Instant Healing but it costs a lot. You get great defences in Elude but you can't attack. You get status protection in your Tankers, but you can't move. You get to deal huge damage over a large area, but you lose all of your endurance and you stun yourself for five seconds. The list goes on and on.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
Really, I think it's the crash that's the dealbreaker.
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By and large, I feel no apprehension in saying that this methodology towards balancing powers has proven unpopular. People skip these "situational" powers because they're too dangerous to use and stick to the ones that do less but operate with much greater reliability. I think it's high time we brought Nukes into the current-day balancing methodology of producing more reliably useful powers even if they're not borderline cheating in terms of final performance.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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While I can agree that the balancing mentality they used then may have been over the top, I still don't favor going in the complete opposite direction and abolish near every penalization attached to powers.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I agree. The original Launch game design philosophy was heavily based around penalising mechanics. You get great regeneration in Instant Healing but it costs a lot. You get great defences in Elude but you can't attack. You get status protection in your Tankers, but you can't move. You get to deal huge damage over a large area, but you lose all of your endurance and you stun yourself for five seconds. The list goes on and on.
By and large, I feel no apprehension in saying that this methodology towards balancing powers has proven unpopular. People skip these "situational" powers because they're too dangerous to use and stick to the ones that do less but operate with much greater reliability. I think it's high time we brought Nukes into the current-day balancing methodology of producing more reliably useful powers even if they're not borderline cheating in terms of final performance. |
It undermines the tactics and powers used to get by or dampen said penalties without raising the ceiling. So those powers that will completely refill your endurance after a crash? Or those quick witted enough to duck behind something when their HP crashes so they can pop a blue + Dull Pain? Or the set that can negate its own crash, making said tier 9 better than similar ones in that regard? Yeah, all that just gets stomped on and now you have to rebalance everything so it's all fair because everything is balanced in exactly the same way in every situation (i.e. homogenized).
Is it so bad to have a power that comes with a penalty? Then you might have a reason to actually take a power that makes up for said penalty. It's called synergy.
A straight-up damage buff would be much simpler, and would also mean I don't have to respec two of my main characters(slotting endmod into AB and Drain Psyche will be meaningless).
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
A straight up damage buff would not solve the problem.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Set it to lose 4 end per target. You'd lose 64 endurance if you hit the target cap of 16, plus the cost of using the power itself. It would take 80-some end away in total, and you'd be fine as long as you had a full end bar when you used it. If you were low on end it would still end up being a full crash though. |
Originally Posted by Vanden
I know how it works, and yes, they would have to change it so using the power is what drains you, and not hitting things. Blizzard already does it that way, in fact.
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That way there would still be a penalty for using powers that were designed to have one, but the penalty wouldn't be quite as crippling as it is now. A full crash on a character that relies on a lot of toggle powers is pretty devastating if they happen to miss a couple targets with their nuke. Especially if one of them is an enemy with a mez power.
Blizzard works the way it does because it's a pseudo-pet rain power. Things can run in and out of it, so it wouldn't be fair to drain you for the 30 things that the power affected (not that it would make much of a functional difference).
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I don't think retaining the "hitting things drains you" function is necessary. Only the really savvy players even know it's there.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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But changing a single number in the power's data is easier than rewriting the entire power to function differently. |
Originally Posted by Vanden
I don't think retaining the "hitting things drains you" function is necessary. Only the really savvy players even know it's there.
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Therefore, if the powers were to be adjusted, the devs are much more likely to do what takes the least time and effort. Especially since this isn't a needed change, it's just one that people would like to see.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
They wouldn't make a change like this lightly. The amount of thought it would need warrants more work than just changing a number on a spreadsheet.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Remove the crash on them entirely, lower the damage and recharge to be comparable to Full Auto and Rain of Arrows. (And I'll specifically NOT include Hail of Bullets in that, there's no real reason for that to have twice the recharge of the other two IMO.) There, suddenly they're good powers like the crashless nukes some sets already have.
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?
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That would be great, but ever since ED the devs have been held hostage by the "no more changes or I'll quit" motto. It didn't help that they tried opening an exception and spent alot of resources for the PvP revamp, which proved quite unpopular.|
Originally Posted by Rebel_Scum
Remove the crash on them entirely, lower the damage and recharge to be comparable to Full Auto and Rain of Arrows. (And I'll specifically NOT include Hail of Bullets in that, there's no real reason for that to have twice the recharge of the other two IMO.) There, suddenly they're good powers like the crashless nukes some sets already have.
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The crash mechanic is horrible, but it'll never change. Just do what I do and skip the nuke, use it as a set mule or play the sets that don't have crashing nukes.
Nova, Psychic Wail, Inferno, Blizzard, Atomic Blast, Blackstar, Thunderous Blast, Dreadful Wail, Dawn Strike, and Quasar of course.
With Judgement out there, a lot of people feel like these nukes aren't worth the crash. They could use a buff.
Here's what I propose: first, reduce the -recovery to 500%. Enough to stop recovery, but surmountable with outside buffs.
Then, starting at level 41, reduce the -End effect by 6% and the -Recovery effect by 10% per level. At 50 the -Recovery effect will be gone, and the -end will be down to 40%. With the 20.8 end cost, that means you'll lose about 60 endurance using a nuke, a lot, but not showstopping. This would make nukes much more usable in the late game.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.