Diamagnetic or paralytic
By
Arilou,
Posted on: 2011-05-19 24:06 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Diamagnetic for sure. The debuff value is the same for both (5%) but Diamagnetic procs 100% of the time instead of 75%. Stacked 4 times on an enemy, I'll take -20% tohit over -20% damage any day.
Remember, in terms of prioritizing defensive options, the order is usually +Def/-tohit > +Res/-Dam > Heals/Regen with a few exceptions.
I'd probably opt for Paralytic myself - my Bots/FF MM already has her bots over the defense softcap, so -tohit doesn't do so much (may still do something in the trials with their +tohit though). So I'd rather layer a bit more -dam onto that. There's enough pet attacks flying around that the 75% chance to proc will still be going off lots.
The to-hit debuff is likely the better choice in standard fare. Against AVs, the damage debuff would be better.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Don't forget the over abundance of mobs that can stack a whole of def debuff on you and your pets very quickly.
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Originally Posted by Biowraith
my Bots/FF MM already has her bots over the defense softcap, so -tohit doesn't do so much (may still do something in the trials with their +tohit though).
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Well for those mobs, just one or two -def will pretty much counter the Diamagnetic debuff and such mobs tend to be throwing a *lot* of -def out there (I can pop a luck on e.g. my soft capped VEATs and large spawns of Kheldian PPD will still likely cause a cascade failure often enough to be a headache) , so I'm not sure absorbing one or two -def hits really helps much more than the -dam that applies even if all your +def is stripped completely.|
Originally Posted by baron_inferno
Don't forget the over abundance of mobs that can stack a whole of def debuff on you and your pets very quickly.
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So to my mind it's probably about equal on massed -def mobs, and better against other enemies that are already floored and won't be able to change that during the fight.
(edit: and as StratoNexus says, against AVs the -dam tends to be better - AV debuff resistance means that 20% -tohit is knocked down to about 3%, and while -dam is resisted too it's usually not resisted as strongly as that)
Diamagnetic if you're mostly going to be soloing. Paralytic if you're mostly going to team. In a teaming scenario, the best one to have is the one nobody is using. Paralytic is still a great debuff, but everyone is flocking to Diamagnetic. And at the high proc rate, you probably won't contribute much with -ToHit on a team. There's also the fact that teams tend to be closer to the soft cap these days.
Also, Diamagnetic does almost nothing to AVs and GMs, but Paralytic is full strength (besides resistances).
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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See, I've been telling people this. Running trials? Are you a ranged AT? Paralytic. Everyone else will not notice, but gee, if the runs you're on don't go a lot faster and smoother... I wonder why???|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Diamagnetic if you're mostly going to be soloing. Paralytic if you're mostly going to team. In a teaming scenario, the best one to have is the one nobody is using. Paralytic is still a great debuff, but everyone is flocking to Diamagnetic. And at the high proc rate, you probably won't contribute much with -ToHit on a team. There's also the fact that teams tend to be closer to the soft cap these days.
Also, Diamagnetic does almost nothing to AVs and GMs, but Paralytic is full strength (besides resistances). |
I picked it because NO ONE is running it. Put it this way. Whatever damage DOES get through -75%. Hell, you could have ME tank at that rate.
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Pretty sure it doesn't do -75% damage.
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Originally Posted by DanZero
I picked it because NO ONE is running it. Put it this way. Whatever damage DOES get through -75%. Hell, you could have ME tank at that rate.
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Since when is everyone flocking to diamagnetic? Most people I see have reactive which is why I built up paralytic for lamda and most other teaming scenarios.
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would be awesome if it did though.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Pretty sure it doesn't do -75% damage.
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No, it's a 75% chance of a 5% damage debuff.|
Originally Posted by DanZero
See, I've been telling people this. Running trials? Are you a ranged AT? Paralytic. Everyone else will not notice, but gee, if the runs you're on don't go a lot faster and smoother... I wonder why???
I picked it because NO ONE is running it. Put it this way. Whatever damage DOES get through -75%. Hell, you could have ME tank at that rate. |
Which unless you're fighting an AV makes it about half as useful as the chance of a 5% -ToHit Diamagnetic does (plus -damage doesn't stack with your Resistences in the same way as -ToHit stacks with your defense).
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How's that?|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
-damage doesn't stack with your Resistences in the same way as -ToHit stacks with your defense).
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Edit: Nvm
50%- dmg + 50% resistance is only about as good as 75% resistance or 75% -dmg
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People are taking Reactive the most. But after that it's Diamagnetic if they want debuffs. Not that many people taking Paralytic and even less doing Gravitic.|
Originally Posted by Cheetatron
Since when is everyone flocking to diamagnetic? Most people I see have reactive which is why I built up paralytic for lamda and most other teaming scenarios.
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In the context of "people flocking to Diamagnetic," it means "if they're going for debuffs."
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I really wish Reactive Fire DoT wasn't that good because it would have given me a better reason to pick other interactive. That Fire DoT is just too good to pass on even if other people are using it. I guess you can still make other interface and change them before trials since others are using Reactive. But for soloing or regular mish, Reactive is just so much better than the other 3.
My soldier actually picked -Recharge by accident. lol I wanted the -Regen instead. It is really hard to tell -recharge.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Picked paralytic. Standard fare / soloing and pretty much 90% of stuff for me will be reactive and musculature.
So for when i need better team support i can put on Nerve, Paralytic, and rebirth destiny. And it will go better with Void judgement.
20% -dam and 50% -dam for 30 secs. 70% sounds good.
Thanks for all the replies.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
The to-hit debuff is likely the better choice in standard fare. Against AVs, the damage debuff would be better.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Diamagnetic if you're mostly going to be soloing. Paralytic if you're mostly going to team. In a teaming scenario, the best one to have is the one nobody is using. Paralytic is still a great debuff, but everyone is flocking to Diamagnetic. And at the high proc rate, you probably won't contribute much with -ToHit on a team. There's also the fact that teams tend to be closer to the soft cap these days.
Also, Diamagnetic does almost nothing to AVs and GMs, but Paralytic is full strength (besides resistances). |
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Fwiw, the -Regen isn't very good. Normal enemies don't regen enough for it to matter, while the values on it are low enough that AVs will resist it into the ground.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
My soldier actually picked -Recharge by accident. lol I wanted the -Regen instead. It is really hard to tell -recharge.
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Keep in mind that with pairing defence and -tohit the mobs will always have a 5% chance to hit.|
Originally Posted by Cheetatron
How's that?
Edit: Nvm 50%- dmg + 50% resistance is only about as good as 75% resistance or 75% -dmg |
You can actually push through the resistance hardcap if you pair enough resistance with -damage.
Vrs single hard targets my cold corr using infrigidate and benumb are able to bring a target down to 20% damage. Running tough unslotted brings me to 82.4% resistance to anything that target is throwing at me. This ignores the corr hardcap of 75% Void and Paralytic to spead the -damage aound in my aoes? Sign me the f up.
With a stone tank and a sonic def/cor, it is possible for the tank to ignore 99% of incoming damage. Will there ever be a situation where that is actually needed? Doubt it.
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This right here. Paralytic gets tremendously better if you have other sources of -Dmg, such as Darkest Night, Toxic Ammo, Fulcrum Shift or Void Judgement.
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Originally Posted by atomicdeath
So for when i need better team support i can put on Nerve, Paralytic, and rebirth destiny. And it will go better with Void judgement.
20% -dam and 50% -dam for 30 secs. 70% sounds good. |
As a tanker, I prefer diamagnetic and keep it slotted as my main interface power, but I also have paralytic and gravitic for special occassions. Have not gone for reactive at all yet.
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*Snip*|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Also, Diamagnetic does almost nothing to AVs and GMs, but Paralytic is full strength (besides resistances).
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While a Damage debuff wont be resisted like ToHit or Regen debuffs, keep in mind that many AVs will have innate +Damage - For example, Marauder in Lambda has +50% Damage at all time, and +65% Damage if [Berzerker Rage] is active. So in effect, you'd only be reducing his final damage output by 9.3% rather than 20% with 4 stacked on him.
SPEDIT: This assumes an even con Marauder so apply the code for level differences as needed.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Diamagnetic.
Too many alts to list.
This is more about the gravitic one but...
Gravitic does -special, right? (10% according to paragonwiki)
Now, I might be wrong here, but *doesen't to-hit count as a secondary effect*? It certainly looks that way when using benumb.
If so, wouldn't Gravitic (75% chance for 10% debuff) be better than diamagnetic (100% chance for 5% debuff?)m
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
If you have -resistance, than Paralytic is far and away the best choice. A -resistance debuff will augment a -damage debuff, and this is very potent for certain builds. My TA/Sonic defender stacks Paralytic and Poison Gas Arrow with very high values of -resistance. This neuters enemy damage.
Diamagnetic is great for melee toons that are resistance based, particularly Brutes with Musculature Radial Paragon and Darkest Night...
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It only reduces +ToHit buffs they might have (which almost no enemies have), not their base hit rate.
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Originally Posted by Arilou
This is more about the gravitic one but...
Gravitic does -special, right? (10% according to paragonwiki) Now, I might be wrong here, but *doesen't to-hit count as a secondary effect*? It certainly looks that way when using benumb. If so, wouldn't Gravitic (75% chance for 10% debuff) be better than diamagnetic (100% chance for 5% debuff?)m |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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What im trying to do is make a 2nd, more defensive build for bots/ff. Already got reactive and musculature to T-4.
Now i got a nerve with the 20% defense and accuracy 33%. What would go better with the nerve, diamagnetic or paralytic?
Diamagnetic -100% hit debuff
or
Paralytic 75% chance for damage debuff