Questions from a MM-newbie.


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Alright, I'll admit it right off the bat. I never play Masterminds.

Well, I built one of every AT for Virtue, because I'm an RP junkie, but they're all concept based, and as a result, my MM is a Mercs/Thermal.

My problem is that playing as her feels... weak, honestly. I've heard that Mercs is a strong DPS primary, but they don't feel that spectacular, and my shields don't do much for their surviveability, so I wind up slowed to a crawl as I wait for her End to recharge so she can keep up with the healing auras she has to spam. She's about level 20, so I figured I"d come here and ask the experts.

Are there any tricks that would make Mercs/Thermal a bit more fun, or a different playstyle I should be aiming for, or are the two just not very compatible? Or perhaps do they come into their own later, and I should just tough it out until later in the game?

What, in short, should I expect?


Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.

 

Posted

I'm not sure about Mercs/Thermal in particular but the low 20s is a VERY rough time for most Masterminds. Your minions have dropped to -2 to your level, you still only have one lieutenant and you don't have SOs yet.

With that in mind I'd stay stick with it, the next few levels will really help. At 22 you get SOs which will help a lot with End usage and make your shields a lot better. At 24 you will get your second Spec Ops which should help with damage. Finally at 26 you'll get your Commando for even more damage.


 

Posted

So in other words, this four-to-six-level period just sucks for MM?

Alright. Any advice, then, for how to play, if not the specific combination then just tips for either the primary or how I can best utilize the secondary?


Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.

 

Posted

Level 20-24 is a rough period. My mastermind with thermal took assault in the teens. It's easier now with inherent stamina to take leadership earlier. Level 24 is the second spec ops, level 26 command, and importantly, level 28 boiler plate forge in your build. This will help your damage, too.

Another trick is to put achille's heals resistance debuff in your pets to increase damage.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Tips for Mercs:

1. Serum sucks. Just don't bother.
2. Always take new pet and upgrade powers as they become available.
3. Your pets should have three modes: Defensive Follow (Default), Defensive Attack Target (focus fire), and Aggressive Follow (Everyone shoot everything)
4. Your attacks are okay, but if you're having to heal, you won't have much time to use them, so don't worry about it.


 

Posted

I've had more MM's stall out at the 20-22 level range than any other AT for the reasons described. The only one that didn't seem to notice and continued to steamroll everything was my Necro/Dark thanks to the
-tohit.

I'll second the suggestion to get the Pet uniques as soon as you can. I prefer to go with the +res and +def ones myself, as it makes them that much more survivable and lets me focus on more than healing.

My strategy of choice is to unlock capes and costume slot at 20. This usually gets me to 21 solo. Then I start the new arcs in Talos, mainly Nance and Cooling. They're new enough and engaging so I don't notice the slow down as much. Generally when I finsh with those arcs, maybe adding Adair in, I'm usually at 22 and then it's off for SO's which will improve things significantly!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psylenz View Post
Another trick is to put achille's heals resistance debuff in your pets to increase damage.
I like to throw in the Lady Grey damage proc too. I'd not put either on Commando though as most of his attacks aren't -def - I go with the knockback smashing proc for him. Although that does leave the question of where/whether to slot the +def and +res aura uniques (I'd probably skip the +def if the char didn't have any other +def buffs to use - more mileage from a bit of extra damage than 5% def on its lonesome).


 

Posted

I agree with Biowraith. I wish there were a way each of the masterminds could get a recharge intensive pet like the posse and hell on earth. Even the extraction on necros isn't a bad place to put the uniques. Mercs need something like a 'local militia' that rushes in to support the mercs instead of serum. Robots could get something like box of gears that the clockwork have in lower levels of hero mission content. Are there any suggestions for the ninja guys - perhaps something like the multiplication illusion trick that Loki used in Thor ?


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Psylenz is right. Its really annoying that RIP slots are usable on most MM combinations. Any pet should just be able to slot them, it won't change anything for the guys at the top and it'll help bring some of the weaker combinations up.


 

Posted

Seriously aren't most first tier pets "recharge intensive pets"?


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psylenz View Post
Seriously aren't most first tier pets "recharge intensive pets"?
Yes, LOL. My permahasted necro/dark can spawn them every 26 seconds or so

Can't feel bad about letting zombies die right?

Seriously though, why can't you slot recharge on normal pets anyway?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewisite View Post
Seriously though, why can't you slot recharge on normal pets anyway?
It was causing AI problems.

Sure, lots of recharge in your pets sounds like a great idea.....right up until your Thugs Bruiser starts spamming nothing but Hand Clap.

From what I've gathered on it, the added recharge was causing the pet's AI to use only one specific power they have available. And for some of the pets that is the LAST power you want them spamming.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

In the low levels you could get some extra xp on teh streets with ease with a mm without ANY risks. Stand on a high point and have all pets out. Then select the furthest enemy you can target and send teh pets to there... when the target shows its dead select the one close to the pets and attack again.

Killing many for nice xp from miles and miles away Like a real mastermind. I had lots of fun in the low levels this way. Got me an extra few levels in between. . to survive some missions.


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Posted

Well ever since the devs nerfed the AI of ranged pets to force them to run into melee its been rough for all ranged based Pets classes (Bots, Mercs, Thugs) as stay doesn't work at all unless they are in passive. But for endurance problems make sure you have 3 slots in your Stamina and I recommend putting a end reduction into your heal powers and buffs. That should lower the problem with you running out of End.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by midgard2 View Post
Well ever since the devs nerfed the AI of ranged pets to force them to run into melee
They didn't "nerf" it, it's just broken and they haven't fixed it yet.

Calling it a nerf implies that they did it on purpose, and I find it hard to believe that the devs would intentionally force pets with no melee attacks other than Brawl into melee all the time.

It's a side effect of the Demon pets AI having a heavy melee bias.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
They didn't "nerf" it, it's just broken and they haven't fixed it yet.

Calling it a nerf implies that they did it on purpose, and I find it hard to believe that the devs would intentionally force pets with no melee attacks other than Brawl into melee all the time.

It's a side effect of the Demon pets AI having a heavy melee bias.
Except, of course, that it's a situation from long before Demon Summoning went live.


 

Posted

You can build for recharge in the pets' SUMMONS, it just doesn't affect the recharge of the pets' abilities.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_gumby View Post
except, of course, that it's a situation from long before demon summoning went live.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Ahem, EMPHASIS


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
It was causing AI problems.

Sure, lots of recharge in your pets sounds like a great idea.....right up until your Thugs Bruiser starts spamming nothing but Hand Clap.

From what I've gathered on it, the added recharge was causing the pet's AI to use only one specific power they have available. And for some of the pets that is the LAST power you want them spamming.
I've heard this, yeah.

But thats a totally stupid reason to wreck the whole archetype. Try fixing the bugs instead guys, geez.

Its especially annoying on primaries like mercs that really would benefit from some recharge. Or fix the recharge times on the control powers anyway.

Now that you mention it, isn't the lack of recharge responsible for the ranged pets running into melee bug? Heard that too. Either way the pet ai is frustratingly broken. If thats all they do for issue 21 I'd be OK.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewisite View Post
I've heard this, yeah.

But thats a totally stupid reason to wreck the whole archetype. Try fixing the bugs instead guys, geez.
Except it's not a bug. It's just the way the AI works.

I'm going by memory of how it was explained, which may be a bit fuzzy.

It has a bias to where it checks the recharge of it's best attack and determines if it is going to use a lesser attack or wait until the best one recharges. If you crammed a bunch of recharge in there it would always wait until the best attack recharges. And for most pets, the "best attack" is whichever one was granted by the second pet buff in MM sets, so for Thugs that would be Hand Clap. That's why you saw a lot of people intentionally NOT buffing their Bruiser.

(I'm not 100% on this, but this theory would explain why pets that got a lot of recharge were stuck in a cycle of using only one attack over and over, even if that attack sucked)

The simplest way to fix that while running zero risk of breaking something else was to make pets unaffected by recharge. If they'd tried to fix the AI, there was a good chance all kinds of goofy stuff would have happened by accident while they were fixing it.

The only way I can think of to fix the "run into melee" thing would be to remove all melee attacks from pets that are supposed to stay at range. Except that probably wouldn't work, Phantasm runs into melee too, and he doesn't have a melee attack at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Except it's not a bug. It's just the way the AI works.

I'm going by memory of how it was explained, which may be a bit fuzzy.

It has a bias to where it checks the recharge of it's best attack and determines if it is going to use a lesser attack or wait until the best one recharges. If you crammed a bunch of recharge in there it would always wait until the best attack recharges. And for most pets, the "best attack" is whichever one was granted by the second pet buff in MM sets, so for Thugs that would be Hand Clap. That's why you saw a lot of people intentionally NOT buffing their Bruiser.

(I'm not 100% on this, but this theory would explain why pets that got a lot of recharge were stuck in a cycle of using only one attack over and over, even if that attack sucked)

The simplest way to fix that while running zero risk of breaking something else was to make pets unaffected by recharge. If they'd tried to fix the AI, there was a good chance all kinds of goofy stuff would have happened by accident while they were fixing it.

The only way I can think of to fix the "run into melee" thing would be to remove all melee attacks from pets that are supposed to stay at range. Except that probably wouldn't work, Phantasm runs into melee too, and he doesn't have a melee attack at all.

Exactly. I'm not sure WHY things are running into melee at all in cases like that.


If possible the best fix would probably be to offer a couple of different AI types to each pet which you could set yourself in some way. That way people could at least set their pet to act the way they prefer (stick a 15 min cooldown on it or something). I've no idea how viable that'd be though.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
The only way I can think of to fix the "run into melee" thing would be to remove all melee attacks from pets that are supposed to stay at range. Except that probably wouldn't work, Phantasm runs into melee too, and he doesn't have a melee attack at all.
Yeah, it doesn't work - Protector Bots still run into melee and they have no melee attacks already.

However, Rikti Drones seem to be happy to sit at range where other mainly-ranged mobs will eventually close to melee (all the more noticeable after that short spell where even the drones were rushing into melee all the time). So it appears it's possible to do, the devs just haven't done it for some reason; hard to say whether it's because they don't want to, don't have the resources to (possibly it's more complex than the drones make it appear), or just don't have MMs on their radar.