Server Merge (not list merge)
By
Alien51,
Posted on: 2011-05-06 17:04 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Nope.
Pretty sure it's just standard stress testing and a chance to get people hyped for the game. Nothing's gonna change. This game will not go Free to Play unless sales are plummeting, and the servers will never merge. People like them the way they are.
I'll just post Memphis Bill's cut and paste on the topic of Server Merges
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As to the F2P idea, not gonna happen unless the game is going under and only then if NCSoft thinks they can make money doing it. However one should remember that all of NCSofts previous F2P games tanked so they have no reason to think the same wouldn't happen with CoH.
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Why server consolidation is not a good idea. Welcome to the forum. You have posted one of the oft repeated suggestions, "Consolidate the servers." Disclaimer Yes. This is a cut and paste reply that I keep handy, as well as a quick bit of instruction on how to search. Neither are meant to cause fights or to be insulting. The search instructions are in, not just because forum rules say flat out to search, but to help you and anyone else reading this use the search tool effectively. The body of the cut and paste reply is the way it is because we've seen these arguments numerous times before. They're a summary of the salient points that come up each time. They are not here to insult you, make you feel stupid or otherwise "bring you down a peg." Instead, they are meant as instruction and information. Please read through the points and the explanation behind them to see the issues that are commonly brought up in response. They may not always match your suggestion 100% - in fact, you may have explained around one or two of them - but they're there for consideration and refinement of your idea. Yes, I do look forward to the time, with some of these suggestions, that someone not only addresses all the points, but does so exceptionally well. It'll probably be added to the end of the cut/paste reply, with credit. For now, though, read and consider the points. They really are just there to help you, and move discussion along to help ideas evolve. If you're going to see this and say an "evil forum vet is just shooting down your idea," or "You think you're the last word because of your post count," you're wrong. Heck, if you say the second, you've just worried more about my post count than I have in the last four plus years. Tongue-in-cheek comments in here are meant as hummor, not put downs. TL,DR section. First, my stock answer, one which I stand by and repeat with all due fervor. HELL NO. Searching effectively 1. Click on "Search" up at the top of the forum. 2. On the left, under "Forum(s) to search," select "Suggestions and ideas." 3. On the right, Keyword Search Terms. This is probably where your problem was if you did search. Try the following, exactly as typed: +server -pvp -"re: " This will search for anything with "Server" in the title, including Servers, Combine Servers, Consolidate Servers, and The Server At Mcdonalds Is Rude. it will eliminate "PVP," so you won't see PVP server requests, and the -re: portion of it removes replies, so you'll see the root of every thread that comes up, letting you see just how many threads there are on this. (The last helps for other subjects, as well.) 4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body. 5. Leave Username Search blank. 6. Date range, Newer Than, change the 1 to a 3, and the time to Months. 7. Result format doesn't matter. Click on "Submit." As I try this now, (12/3/08,) we have: Consolidate Server Server Stats RSS Feed $server modifier ofr chat Fix the forum server Earlyissue server Merging low population server Combine slow server Server status Global chat on the Character and Server Screens Rated M server Add Ponies, Nerf Vills, merge Servers, PistolMelee Server Visiting Display Central Time on Server Status Page Ignoring the smartalec reply, that's three full discussions about this topic. You should have read one of them if (inevitably) something similar comes up in your search. Now, on to the topic at hand.... Why server consolidation is not a good idea. 1. Just because YOU like living in New York City doesn't mean I can't like Kansas. Yay, you love having huge lag spikes as you get near the black market/wentworths and a busy broadcast. Congrats. Enjoy Freedom. Some of us - many of which you will get replies from with this subject - like *low population* servers. If we *wanted* to be on Freedom, we'd *be* on Freedom. I have characters on Freedom. I rarely play them (and actually moved a character OFF of Freedom to finish leveling it to 50) because *I DON'T LIKE FREEDOM.* I dislike the banality of broadcast, the high percentage of *horrid* teams I've come across there, the lag around any gathering point- and I've got a decent connection and system. For much the same reason, I typically startin Galaxy City instead of Atlas Park - I don't *want* to log in to a costume contest with several 50s spamming powers and nonsense arguments in broadcast. Some of us *like* nice, quiet servers. 2, Kansas, part 2. In addition, servers have their own personalities. No, I don't mean that literally, there's no AI to worry about if you start hearing "Daisy, Daisy" over your speakers or headset. Freedom's a crowded mess. Virtue is the RP server. Pinnacle is the "Drunk" server. Others have specific communities, such as those from Australia/NZ, Europe, etc. 3. "I only saw one other person. World of Conancraft has eleventy billion!" So what? We don't run around camping spawn points in this game. People are in missions. People are spread across many zones. Search on a map or do a /whoall and you'll miss those in missions, as well as those who are, for whatever reason, on /hide. Your "search" there didn't give you a full picture, not in the least. I understand the "feel" of things being "not very populated," but take a good look around when you're in game. Typically, you don't really have a lot of visibility. Standing in steel canyon, there could be multiple, full 8 person groups surrounding you, and it's likely you'd never see them. We have buildings, walls, architecture, trees and more limiting our visibility. Yes, it can make you feel more alone... but that's rarely the case. Add to that that the population is spread between many, MANY zones, most quite large, and among two sides... well... 4. "I put up my LFT flag and nothing happened!" Learn to search. Don't just wait. Form a team yourself. 5. "I AM SPARTACUS!" No, not any more. Remember logging in and seeing all those slots? Everyone has those - some buy more than the base 12, you get an extra one each year, you could have a total of 36 on any server. Everyone does. Every one has a character with a unique name. Maybe not a *good* name, but a unique one. Every one has a character with a unique name. Maybe not a *good* name, but a unique one. Now merge servers. Suddenly, CoolBlasterDude from server 1 is getting merged with CoolBlasterDude from Server 2. Who gets to keep their name? Nobody has been able to answer this with any degree of satisfaction. Add a number? But I am NOT CoolBlasterGuy1. And what if the name's too long? Does the older character keep it? What if they're not as active? People are *VERY* attached to their names. They are, quite obviously, part of their character. 6. "This Is SPARTA!" Sorry, Sparta exists already. You are GenericSG 8734 287 9798. What else has a name? Supergroups. And I can *guarandamntee* that the same name is in use on multiple servers. Sometimes it's 'branches' of the same SG, sometimes it's coincidence. But with *everything* involved in an SG - from its identity and reputation on the server, to everything stored in the database about what it owns, what its base is like and such, this would be a disaster in the making. And no, auto merging them when the servers merge, even if they have room to, is not an option. This, of course, assumes that they *CAN* move supergroups as a unit. More than likely, it'd just be a mass character move, with bases, prestige, anything stored in bases and all SG affiliations just gone forever. 7. "I am... where'd Spartacus go?" Remember all those slots? Well, you start with 1/3 of the available ones. You can buy up to 36 total (24 on top of the ones you get initially.) Now, what do you suppose would happen if you merged two servers, and someone has, say, 20 characters on each? Not unusual. In fact, before those extra slots, I had *filled up* several servers. Do those characters just disappear? Do they move? Free move to another server sounds great, right... well, except you now kick them from their supergroup, remove them from their friends lists and more. This makes for angry and unhappy customers. Or rather, ex customers. 8. I will play where I damn well want to. And you can too. And that should be blunt enough. If I want a crowded server, I'll go to Freedom. If I want an RP server, I'll go to Virtue. I do NOT want to be shoved onto another server I *don't* like. If I wanted to go there, *I'd be there.* If the server you're on isn't "busy" enough for you, you have two options that won't bother anyone else. (A) If it's low enough, reroll. You have a ton of character slots for a reason. (B) If you don't want to reroll, server transfers are available, and relatively cheap. They also finish fast - you should be up and running and being spammed to join someone's SG on the new server in a few minutes, in most instances. So YOU can go to the server of YOUR choice without screwing ME over. 9. "It'll free up server hardware for Freedom!" No, no it won't. Freedom, because of the load it tends to have, already has more resources dedicated to it than other servers. And ALL of the servers have been upgraded multiple times. The servers are not allocated exactly the same. The servers that handle less of a load have less dedicated to them. So this argument doesn't fly. 10. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! Last but not least (at least until better points come along to be added,) server consolidation is widely viewed in the industry as an MMO going on life support. No, we don't have WoWs numbers (and you should actually pay attention to when and how they got those.) They're an abberation in the MMO industry. COH has had and does have a very successful, sustainable population even at its lowest points, so there's no economic need to combine anything. The flip side of that, of course, has been suggested above - you crowd people together, break up their SGs and friends lists, cause characters to go missing and poeple definitely *will* quit, both out of annoyance and a sense of "The game is almost dead!" In conclusion.... As stated before, when it comes to server consolidation... HELL NO. |
I take it you don't like to read?
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...81&postcount=2
Important extract;
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No, it's not a server merge. No, they are not going F2P. No, it's STILL not a good idea, and the vast majority of the playerbase would like quit in understandable disgust at this game being turned into F2P tripe like that 'Other' Super hero MMO.
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Originally Posted by Second Measure
First, we have been running this version of the server software since Issue 20 went live, so it's not like this is a fresh build that hasn't been tested. We’ve had some other bugs since I20 went live, but these changes haven’t been at the heart of those bugs, which is why we feel comfortable running this event.
Second, before the rumor mill starts churning, this isn't about a server merge or going “server-less”, either -- the server communities are genuinely important to you and to us. We have good, old-fashioned business reasons to be more efficient with the servers. If you could make your car get a couple miles more to the gallon every day, you'd probably do it, too. Now imagine you can make your car *twice* as efficient. This is kinda like that. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Make Freedom and Virtue pay? I would quit even if all I had to do to play free would be to start over on a low pop server.
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They once said there'd be no server list merge too. Hell, they once said they weren't going to merge the forum communities.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
No, it's not a server merge. No, they are not going F2P. No, it's STILL not a good idea, and the vast majority of the playerbase would like quit in understandable disgust at this game being turned into F2P tripe like that 'Other' Super hero MMO.
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Reality check: They will not tell us their long term plans, and a business will do everything it can to reduce costs and maximise profits.
Me and some friends already have a book running on how long before they DO start a server merge process, and none of us see it as being too long around the corner either. There are too many whopping great big hints towards an accellerated schedule.
For one, server list merge, when announced, was going to be towards the end of summer, and now it's in the spring. Now they're testing improved server load management capability, which can only mean they're prepping for a larger server population.
I think that, within 6 months at the most, we're going to start seeing some servers closed down. It only makes sense, why do we need 15 servers? We don't have the population to support that many.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Would a server merge allow me to have an infinite amount of character slots? 
I'll do it! Where do I sign?
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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So, you're saying that that official statement that this wasn't about server mergers was lying to our faces? Wow, and I thought I had a low opinion of the development team. Can I have my fanboy pass back, please?
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
They once said there'd be no server list merge too. Hell, they once said they weren't going to merge the forum communities.
Reality check: They will not tell us their long term plans, and a business will do everything it can to reduce costs and maximise profits. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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There have been official statements denying things before. Since the ones claiming that the EU offices weren't going to close, I've not believed ANY of them.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
So, you're saying that that official statement that this wasn't about server mergers was lying to our faces? Wow, and I thought I had a low opinion of the development team. Can I have my fanboy pass back, please?
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@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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There aren't any promises in development. Only plans. I'm sure they had planned to make a moderate to big expansion with the EU market. At least the EU support survives, unfortunate that it doesn't thrive instead. Better than the support the Asian market got. That version of CoH/V doesn't even exist now.
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
There have been official statements denying things before. Since the ones claiming that the EU offices weren't going to close, I've not believed ANY of them.
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Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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Sadly for you the devs never said they would never merge the servers. In fact quite the opposite they told us that there may come a day when they have the ability to go to a serverless. They also said that if that day were to come they wouldn't refund any money spent on server transfers.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
They once said there'd be no server list merge too. Hell, they once said they weren't going to merge the forum communities.
Reality check: They will not tell us their long term plans, and a business will do everything it can to reduce costs and maximise profits. Me and some friends already have a book running on how long before they DO start a server merge process, and none of us see it as being too long around the corner either. There are too many whopping great big hints towards an accellerated schedule. For one, server list merge, when announced, was going to be towards the end of summer, and now it's in the spring. Now they're testing improved server load management capability, which can only mean they're prepping for a larger server population. |
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| I think that, within 6 months at the most, we're going to start seeing some servers closed down. It only makes sense, why do we need 15 servers? We don't have the population to support that many. |
Besides the only way the devs could prevent a massive cancelation of subs that a server merge would cause would be if they devised a way to keep the current server communities intact.
That means drastically increasing the number of characters per server so no one loses any characters or has them split up between different servers.
Ensuring global channels, SG's, and SG Coalitions remain together.
That Bases transfer intact to the new server.
And finally a massive ad campaign to convince everyone that they have made a breakthrough and are uniting their playerbase in a new serverless enviroment where characters can team up with anyone regardless of their server of origin.
That way people won't cancel their subs and assume that the game is dying and will soon shut down forever.
During the recent Dev meet and greet I asked about cross server teaming and Posi answered that it was on their schedule although there were technical limitations still to be overcome. I would say that was more likely to happen than server merges or a "server-less" environment, at least in the medium term.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
Time will tell.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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It doesn't matter if it's called serverless or cross server teaming it still adds up to the same thing, that the devs flat out told us that it is something they have had on the drawing boards that may one day make it into the game, but they have no idea when or if it can be done.|
Originally Posted by OV_ohms
During the recent Dev meet and greet I asked about cross server teaming and Posi answered that it was on their schedule although there were technical limitations still to be overcome. I would say that was more likely to happen than server merges or a "server-less" environment, at least in the medium term.
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It's the same thing they said about Power Customization.
Willing to take Second Measure's word that they just want to break their record for highest consecutive user count on a single server.
Let's Dance!
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They aren't going F2P any time soon. There's no upside to it for them. None.|
Originally Posted by Alien51
One possible reason for this is perhaps they will go free to play which would bring in many new people. If this is the plan may I suggest making Virtue and Freedom server for only paid subscribers since they already have high populations?
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Another is that, since all the servers are in place, maintaining parallel support structures for each of the server hives is less economical than merging into a single list.
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| The other possibility I thought of is a plan to merge the servers into one. While I see benifits in doing that there is one BIG problem which is resolving heroes with the same name. Quite frankly if I have to change the name of some of my most liked alts I may stop playing. |
Rather than rage against the possibilty however I thought about it and would like to offer an equitable sollution. Let me break it down:
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Each character gets an extra data field that identifies which server they were on. Players can have the same name as long as the server they were from is different. New characters choose the "server" they belong to even though there is now only one server. This "server" catagory of players can be used for events and competitions i.e. Virtue v.s Guardian to see who can complete ITF the fastest. So in essence a player is choosing a group they want their character to be a part of. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I figure it's that and they just want to put the servers and new setup through their paces. Look at the timing of the Praetorian events. They want to cram as many people into the servers at a time and then they're going to watch their datamines very closely. This is really the only way they can find out if the servers can stand up to this kind of punishment.
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Originally Posted by reiella
Willing to take Second Measure's word that they just want to break their record for highest consecutive user count on a single server.
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You want to know the secret of the world? It's this: Save it, and it'll repay you, every second of every day.
@Dr. Reverend - My DeviantArt Gallery
Crow Call - Gods of the Golden Age
I am a pessimist. I find life throws me far fewer situations were I am horribly dissapointed that way.
On this basis, I will be pleasantly surprised if Union still exists by the end of the year. (I could really care less about the other servers. Sorry, people on those.)
If I'm not, I shall take pleasure instead in seeing the people here currently saying it'll never happen saying instead how wonderful it is that it's happening. Find good in bad.
(The main problem with my attitude is that the world keeps finding new ways to smack me around the head in bigger, nastier ways. I keep working on it. 
)
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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WarWitch: Dang! We lost Freedom! Guess we found the limits. How much?|
Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend
I figure it's that and they just want to put the servers and new setup through their paces. Look at the timing of the Praetorian events. They want to cram as many people into the servers at a time and then they're going to watch their datamines very closely. This is really the only way they can find out if the servers can stand up to this kind of punishment.
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Posi: Toting up right now.
*RING!*
WW: Hello?
Technician: Hi, this is Bob as the NCSoft data center. You guys were load testing the Freedom shard right?
WW: Well. Yeah. Can you reset it?
Technician: No.
WW: What do you mean no?
Technician: Does the phrase "Puddle of metal, plastic and silicon" mean anything to you?
WW:
Technician: I agree. Well, gotta go. Have to get a hazmat team in here.
WW: Matt! We...melted...the server.
*THUD*
WW: Matt! Get up for god's sake! Get up! They've killed Matt! They've killed Matt! Those lousy stinking yellow villains! Those horrible, atrocity filled vermin!
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
They are clearly expecting the 300lb Gorilla to go under very soon and for us to get an influx of players looking for the MMO fix.
Forgive my noobness when it comes to server transfer, but I have never strayed from Defiant and never felt the need to. I'm not a fan of the GSA in fact I have never asked for it and am pretty dead against it, but it may have a beneficial side to it.
Is it possible for me to create an alt on say Freedom and then transfer that alt to defiant thus creating me an extra slot or would I still have to purchase slots on Defiant to place it in?
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Weeeee
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Originally Posted by Moderator 08
This topic comes up from time to time, and is never conducive to productive discussion. I contemplating finding an old lock comment and re-posting it, but decided that would be counterproductive (and the humor would probably be a bit lost on everyone).
Instead let me say this, next time this topic comes up please avoid the discussion. Just don't post, it's not like if you avoid this subject somehow Doom will come to Sarnath... I mean Paragon City. On this subject we use a lot more internal research to inform our decision making because we can see exactly how many people logged on, how many people teamed, how long people stayed on, etc. We have the actual details, so we can make decisions from a far more informed PoV. We are aware of how players from both perspectives feel about this issue, hashing it out repeatedly in the forums doesn't help. |
You can't transfer a character to another server unless you have a free slot to put it in.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Damn, oh well lol, guess that ruins any benefits for me |
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
You can't transfer a character to another server unless you have a free slot to put it in.
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Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
The benefit for you then would be the chance to play with new people (who come to Defiant).
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
So the plan the devs have to test the max number of players that can fit on a server even though we know the servers can handle the current capacity suggests a couple of possible future plans they may have.
One possible reason for this is perhaps they will go free to play which would bring in many new people. If this is the plan may I suggest making Virtue and Freedom server for only paid subscribers since they already have high populations?
The other possibility I thought of is a plan to merge the servers into one. While I see benifits in doing that there is one BIG problem which is resolving heroes with the same name. Quite frankly if I have to change the name of some of my most liked alts I may stop playing.
Rather than rage against the possibilty however I thought about it and would like to offer an equitable sollution. Let me break it down:
Each character gets an extra data field that identifies which server they were on. Players can have the same name as long as the server they were from is different.
New characters choose the "server" they belong to even though there is now only one server. This "server" catagory of players can be used for events and competitions i.e. Virtue v.s Guardian to see who can complete ITF the fastest. So in essence a player is choosing a group they want their character to be a part of.
Where the player names are displayed the players base name will be the same as usual but below the name will be something like [Freedom] if they were from the Freedom server.
Chat channels for things like Team, League, Friends will display the base name as usual except if there is more than one person in the Team, League, Friends list with the same name. Then the name will display as NAME@SERVER where SERVER is a 2 letter abbriviation for the server the person is from.
Global chat and local chat will always use the NAME@SERVER format.
The owners of global channels can choose in the settings to use NAME or NAME@SERVER format. This is because the owners of channels may have tight nit groups or massive groups of people joining and leaving.
Tells must use the NAME@SERVER format if not using the global handle.
Quest dialog and NPC text uses the base player name.
Sound reasonable?
Alien 51 - Emp/Energy/Energy Defender
Average Bob - Rifle/Devices/Munitions Blaster
Fusion Avatar - Triform Warshade
Grumpy - Nec/Poison/Mu Mastermind
Metallic Guy - Kat/Inv/Weapons Scrapper