Dual Pistols debuffs

But then, they didn't even give us fancy guns to take advantage of their special utility, they just handed us what we'd already seen in-game plus a handful of cowboy guns. And to top it off, when Going Rogue came out they add in the Resistance who have pistol users who use guns with glowing parts and then, not add that set of pistols to the pool of Dual Pistol options.

Well, there is the whole loading thing. It's usually faster (can't speak from experience, not an avid gun user) to load a pistol than an equivalent era gun, so jump that to super-levels, and you have the ability to load your gun with all kinds of neat stuff in a blink. In context of the game, Malta gunslingers are probably, lore-wise, some of the best pistolers in the CoX universe and they use alternate ammo types.

Also, I don't understand the Archer/TA analogy. You're comparing archery...to trick arrow? Or archer to dual pistols?



I was speaking to use. You might think combos are easy to use, but subjectively, I don't think they're easier than switching on an endurance-free toggle when you want to.


Like I said before, I'm with the OP in improving the debuffs to be on level with related sets. Cryo-rounds should slow as much as Ice blast and Cryo will still not step on its toes since Ice still has 2 holds that last longer. The KB in normal rounds could have its chances improved and still not overshadow Energy since that set has 100% chance KB in a power or two. The chance of DoT, I don't see why it is so low considering it won't be stepping on Fire's toes at all. That the set could give each of those other sets a run for its money is irrelevant since you can't give each of those other sets that run simultaneously.

Okay, now translate that to Pistols. It doesn't quite work.

With arrows, an archer has many ways they can shoot an arrow or multiple arrows at a time. A pistol only shoots 1 bullet with 1 pull of the trigger. You can't line up 5 bullets in the barrel and hope they all come out when you pull the trigger. And you can't shoot anything other than a bullet since you're not going to shove a rock, bomb or net into a bullet.




I don't disagree, but now you seem to place yourself as the opponent of similar innovation. It's not necessary, really. People complain that DP doesn't outshine other blast sets. People complain that the animations are way over the top. That the set lacks specific powers. You have to understand that there are a *lot* of different views how things can and do turn out and not everyone will be pleased in the end. I'm just saying, what we got is what we got. Not much use bemoaning on what could have been and seek to improve with what innovations we have.

Situational adaptability requires situational awareness, and quite comprehensive such. The first thing I did when I made my Dual Pistols Blaster was to download Arcana's spreadsheet of enemy resistances, and the things I found surprised me greatly. Some resistances are obvious, like robots resisting lethal damage or robots resisting psi damage, but I wasn't aware that Tarantula cyborgs in general resisted almost everything, or that either DE trees or DE mushrooms are weak to fire but not lethal while for the others it's the reverse. I'm already forgetting much of what I learned from that spreadsheet.

Dual Pistols in general is almost a sucker trap, in that it gives you this apparent adaptability, making you believe that you should know which ammo to use when, and the fact of the matter is that the end results aren't all that different from one another anyway, so you can never tell if you're doing something wrong, if you don't know enough or if the set's basic design is just screwing with you - which is usually the case. And then on the flip side, if you DO choose to "just use incendiary," you will inevitably meet with people who browbeat you over it like you're some knuckle-dragging idiot who picked the "simple" option where one doesn't have to think.

It's a design that sounds good on paper, but I've never seen it work out in practice.

I'm not sure I agree. Look at Broadsword. It's a set that has 7 out of 9 attacks that consist of "swing sword," and there aren't all that many ways to swing a sword. In fact, the set ends up doubling up on its own animation, with Head Splitter constituting a slightly more brutish version of Hack. Axe, Mace and Katana notwithstanding, Dual Blades is in a similar situation - it consists of slashes and slices from beginning to end. Even Super Strength isn't all that different, though that does demonstrate what lateral thinking can produce.

What I'm saying is that a set can be cool and different and interesting enough on its own without having to have a "sore thumb" gimmick on top of it. It comes down to art design, visual effects and power balance.

A while ago someone reminded me that Dual Pistols actually uses TWO pistols, taken out of context. This got me thinking if that basic nature of the set couldn't have been used in some way. Roll with me for a while as I think out loud:

Suppose you have each attack only concern one pistol, allowing the player to mix and match attacks if the player chooses. Such a thing WOULD make for a complex, probably unintuitive control scheme, but it would also allow one to, say, choose to do an attack and a short-duration stun by mixing an attack with a stun, or a stronger attack by mixing an attack with itself, or a stronger stun by mixing a stun with itself, or an attack that has two different components to it by mixing two different attacks. I'm speaking off-the-cuffs, so chances are I'm not making much sense.

I'm not an opponent of innovation, so much as I'm an opponent of innovation for the sake of innovation, rather than for the sake of good balance. I wouldn't be against a gimmick if it felt like it worked to the set's benefit, rather than detriment. I've complained about DB Combos quite a bit, but at the end of the day, they work, and the set is fun to play with them, once you figure them out.

The reason I speak against Swap Ammo is because of how things are balanced around here. If what you describe were possible - that Dual Pistols could get decent numbers on all ammo types - then I would be all for it, but that's not how Castle balanced things, and I've no reason to believe that his successors would be any more lenient. When it looks like a set has more tools at its disposal, the developers WILL cripple ALL of these tools to balance that versatility, to the point where not only is a set no longer versatile, it's actually not even any good.

To me, Swap Ammo is a death sentence for Dual Blades, because it condemns it to a jack of all trades, which means it will never do anything well. The only way we're ever going to see an improvement in the set's numbers is to lose some of its functions, because a set that has many uses AND is strong in those uses is seen to overshadow all others. Martial Arts is practically the poster child of death by versatility, and most of what has happened to save it over the years has come at the price of crimping that supposed versatility for more solid performance.

Basically, I don't want to see the search for novelty to produce a sub-par set. I'd sooner have a set that works than one which is eccentric but not very good.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I doubt the devs created the mechanic with the intent for you to learn every foes resistances. Heck, I don't even bother with my DP user. He/she fires either fire bullets or ice bullets depending on the costume (although they both can use regular ammo too since they *are* using real guns, after all).

If anything, the simplest use would be '*shoot* *shoot* *shoot* My damage seems to be resisted. Let's try a different ammo. *swap*'. It was designed in a manner that, you can swap whenever you want, as many times as you want. This is simpler than combos on an academic level.



If swinging a sword (or by proxy, shooting an arrow) were simple, their use wouldn't have been obsoleted over firearms all those years ago. And if there weren't so many ways to swing a sword (or many seemingly simple weapons) there wouldn't be schools dedicated to years of training in their use.

As for the animations, don't even go there. You already said you love how simple BS's are and I've expressed how I hate how weak they look.

I won't comment on the rest considering I don't disagree with any of it. But I also feel it's rather pointless to bother. We have swap ammo and that's not going to change. How the devs balance powers seem to change with time and I think that'd be a better use of energy, to get them to balance the secondary effects properly for this set.

I was speaking of results and not intent. The original intent was a set that used different weapons and was called something else. the end result was a set that used one weapon to different effects and fell under one model.

Melee weapons are different from ranged weapons

they also made a set which was unique from it's predecessors in it's category and felt more superhuman than the others. And, again ranged weapons=/=melee weapons

Swap ammo would be fine with better numbers

You'll never get better numbers because having multiple secondary effects to choose from is considered a major benefit which requires that the secondary effects be crap in order to be balanced. If they could just boost the set's numbers sufficiently for it to be good, I wouldn't have much to complain about, but this will not happen. Not without a miracle attached.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Dual Pistols does not underperform. It simply is not Fire blast when it comes to damage. Far too many people think that every new set has to be more damaging than every set that came before it. Dual Pistol's debuffs need help, yes. The Cryo and Chem round are lacking. But the utility in Dual Pistols is leaps and bounds ahead of Fire (and I am a Fire blaster at heart, you can keep your fancy controls and Knocks, I'll just Blaze them in the face, thank you very much).

The AoE potential of Pistols is strong. The single target is lower tier (but still well within blaster norm). The control is strong. Would I have made Executioner's Shot have a half second shorter cast time? You bet. Would I prefer to see Empty Clips get something to make up for its cast time? You bet. Does Pistols currently underperform relative to other blast sets? Sadly, no, which makes it hard for me to argue for the changes I would like to see.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.