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Originally Posted by Mr_Trix
So during yesterday's Hami Raid, I had a little bit of CoH Deja Vu. Apparently, the word is that the new Destiny Powers cause major lag issues. I can't either confirm or deny that, but it brought back memories of the "OMG NO CAPES, AURAS, or PETS!!!" "NO FULCRUM SHIFT OR FREEZING RAIN!!" eras of Hami. When it's laggy in Hami blame the new stuff. What I can confirm is that use of Destiny powers will cause uptight raid leaders to have a hissy fit and accuse people using Destiny powers of griefing. Throwing around the "g" word like that and threatening a Hami blackball is just plain silly. Using a power as its intended is not griefing. Your threats of Hami blackball do not scare anyone since you cannot kick people out of the zone. Most players can perform their Hami role with their eyes closed. It makes me wonder if these toolboxes even remember what real hami griefing was like...
Anyway, this has just been a JFS PSA. Using Destiny Powers in the Hive will make Hami leaders cry. Now that you know, please don't do it. JFS Trix |
I have been to a few raids (including the ones I led) where Destiny powers were proven to be an additional source of tremendous lag. A few Destiny powers thrown out over the course of a raid doesn't add too much, but using them en-mass during a group buffing cycle seems to add a lot of lag. In essence, the fact is that a lot of big, graphic abilities going off in a small area or being spammed in a "small" zone does cause many people to lag.
*You* may not be among those who experience the lag, but we do have to remember that there are a variety of people playing the game on a variety of machines. I think, in the case of an organized event like Hamidon Raids, the leader/organizer should take the known "problems" into account and do their best to "create" a situation in which everyone can participate. That doesn't mean everyone will be happy. But, the leader should do their best.
Likewise, the people participating should do their best to respect the wishes of the leader and cooperate. No one forced you to show up and help out. Your "signing up" should convey an unspoken commitment to follow and respect common decency and respect the instructions given out by the leader. Anyone failing to do so, especially after the leader has given out clear instructions, is just not right. But, that does not necessarily mean griefing. Griefing is when someone is being contrary with the intended purpose of causing trouble.
But, IMHO, whoever reacted this way was definitely overreacting. And, the people who failed to respect the leader's wishes aren't innocent either.
And, the guy who posted this instead of addressing it with the mods of the hami raid global channel (you know, the people who regularly lead/organize the raids)... all you are doing is creating a bigger problem for the rest of us.
@ Dr Gemini
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| �If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
Okay so we've all been through this before but here is my two cents, take it for what it's worth.
There has always been some lag during Hami. That is unavoidable when you have a full zone. That happens during any raid... and I must point out Mothership raids are the worst in game that I can think of.
This is what I do know...
Since the channel I raid for has switched to using League system to keep track of everything and to give any advice/and the occassional joke at a leader's expense... the lag has increased greatly. But this is nothing like when people fire off massive buffs during the call for auras.
DC's have always been a problem with raiding, ouro ports as well. I can't say we've experienced any greifing with use of the new powers. We do ask our raiders not to use them when in group. Self buff as you will that's your right but when an entire tank team refuses to join the group for auras to avoid the lag there is a problem with the buffage. When you can't even fire off taunt or move two inches to get to a target there is an issue.
Perhaps the next raid I run I'll avoid the league system and return to the pre i20 and see if this cuts down on the lag.
But think about this... why are people now preferring to run 16 man BAF's vs 24 man BAF's... maybe there is something seriously flawed with the whole thing.
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That does absolutely nothing to prove your case, considering it specifically mentions Leagues as the problem. Destiny is only one small category of buffs. |
Originally Posted by XxSlashxX
And it's not so much "flawed thinking," It's fact: http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/pat...es_-_5311.html
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It seems to me, instead of telling everybody to stop using buffs, it would have been more beneficial to simply drop the league into teams.. since that was the actual problem.
PS- CoH is a fun game..
..and I still love BuNNeHs!
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/em sigh |
Originally Posted by DrGemini
And, the guy who posted this instead of addressing it with the mods of the hami raid global channel (you know, the people who regularly lead/organize the raids)... all you are doing is creating a bigger problem for the rest of us.
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I thought I was done here. I do appreciate this diplomatic response, but I have to ask: What exactly would you have done if I had approached the Hamilluminati with this issue? Would I have to state my issue in front of a tribunal of sorts? Is there a clearinghouse for Hamidon and Hive related complaints that are read at a weekly meeting? Do you vote on forming one official statement regarding these matters? Do you have any examples on how you've handled these issues in the past? How have you enforced any stances that you have decided to take regarding Hamidon problems? Was that enforcement successful?
I bring awareness to things that I experience in the game. If that's a problem, I can't help you with that.
It seems to me that this issue will not be resolved until we have the hami raid tomorrow night (which will be dedicated to the J-Force).
If we are blacklisted and are not allowed to come that will be one problem.
If we are not blacklisted and are allowed to come, then that will be a whole different problem.
Due to the facts that we have available to us it seems that there is an issue with the League system that is causing lag. Anything else is just conjecture and baseless opinions.
It seems that the real people at fault are the raid leaders who are trying to use the league system in the first place. Ghantana got it right. Instead of trying to pass the back you should take into account your own actions and not use the league system.
I for one am boycotting all leagues and will refuse to team with any group that exceeds 8 members.
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Maybe it's just me, but when I host a raid, I see my hosting duties as being a facilitator and trying to ensure that the raid is fun and enjoyable. Since the time I have been active on Freedom, which has only been about a year since I was away for long time and came back to my home server being pretty inactive (but that's a story for another time), I have not seen or had any issues with the raids. And, at least, I try to dispense clear instructions so the raids are easy, fun, and relaxing. Basically, a good raid.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Trix
/em sigh
I thought I was done here. I do appreciate this diplomatic response, but I have to ask: What exactly would you have done if I had approached the Hamilluminati with this issue? Would I have to state my issue in front of a tribunal of sorts? Is there a clearinghouse for Hamidon and Hive related complaints that are read at a weekly meeting? Do you vote on forming one official statement regarding these matters? Do you have any examples on how you've handled these issues in the past? How have you enforced any stances that you have decided to take regarding Hamidon problems? Was that enforcement successful? I bring awareness to things that I experience in the game. If that's a problem, I can't help you with that. |
IMHO, *your* reaction to the incident seems to indicate unnecessary drama. Therefore, I, personally, would rather try to handle it more diplomatically so that those on the server who are known to regularly host raids can be made aware of any new/useful information for future use. By no means do the people in FHR have any monopoly on the raiding. Just wishing to handle it in a better way is all.
@ Dr Gemini
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| �If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
I still see this thread as the Monty Python fish slapping dance.....sorry....this is just how I see it...its all about who thinks they have the bigger fish and who actually does!
You only fail if you give up. - Dana Scully
Time Jesum Transeuntum Et Non Riverentum - Nick Cave
We're not just destroyers, at the same time we can be saviors. - Allen Walker
Quick Update:
Over the weekend several Hami Raids were run. All of them using League mode. None of them using Destiny powers....
AND GUESS WHAT...
NO LAG
Oh and as for how FHR deals with an issue... the leaders of the channel do discuss things. We do come to a concensus on what we feel does and doesn't work for our raids. We would hope that members of our channel could come to any one of us with a complaint and have it handled fairly. We do expect a certain level of respect when we lead a raid. If you are asked not to do something ie. use destiny powers we would hope you had enough consideration for other members of the raid.
Personal Opinion : The following is not an FHR approved note LOL : And I've heard the line 'I pay for this game I can play the way I want....' Well we all pay for this game. If you don't want to take others into consideration maybe you shouldn't be playing in a community setting.
So does that mean I get to stand in a pitch black room in a spotlight while two hula hoops rotate around me, inexplicably keeping me in place while I address a faceless Council of Hami Raid Leaders? If my complaint fails, do I get banished into a two-dimensional piece of floaty glass? If so sign me up! If only so I can write about it here 
How exactly would this adjudication process take place? Who votes? What are their qualifications? Again, how would any decision you make be enforced?
Okay to address you specifically Trix.
We are one channel. There are many others out there who lead their own raids in their own way. I didn't see a specific or coherent question really asked from you just snide remarks.
How we lead our channel and our raids is our choice and the members of our channel have voiced no concerns about how we lead our raids. Personally I respect every member of our channel. How we deal with griefers is simple. We don't. Personally I would rather cancel a raid I am leading then put 30+ people through hell and hardship.
If you don't like how a raid you are attending is going then you have your choice to leave or maybe lead your own... there's an idea, lead your own, do as you please with your own raid.
This thread was about using Destiny powers to grief a raid... at least that's what I thought it was about when I was reading. Greifing is intentionally causing disruption to an event/player in any form that can be considered detrimental. If these powers are causing lag (and we have run lag free Hami's in league mode without Destiny powers with 30+ players) then why would you use them? Especially when asked not to. Perhaps in the case that was mentioned things weren't handled well. I'm not sure who the raid leader for that one was but I don't believe it was one from FHR. If it was I stand corrected and would love to speak in private so that such things could be avoided in the future.
The Ustream yesterday even touched on the reason this could cause lag when someone asked about moving hair. It all has to do with micro processes. But I believe a Dev or GM would be better suited to talk on that. If any are even reading this I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Finally, for those using them during a Hami Raid and thinking they can't survive without them you should realize Hami's attacks... and that includes the mitos... are unresistable. Only +HP +Regen +Recovery buffs are useful during a raid and only eoe's will protect you from the attacks.... So there really isn't any reason to use them in the first place.
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Yeah Barrier maybe. But Ageless, Clarion an Rebirth provides useful things
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Originally Posted by Ghantana
Finally, for those using them during a Hami Raid and thinking they can't survive without them you should realize Hami's attacks... and that includes the mitos... are unresistable. Only +HP +Regen +Recovery buffs are useful during a raid and only eoe's will protect you from the attacks.... So there really isn't any reason to use them in the first place. |
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Who is "us" that is being referred to here? How do we have assurances that it would be handled fairly? What process is involved? What are the qualifications of the decision makers? Do they have any arbitration experience? A brief bio of each of the tribunal members involved would be helpful.
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Originally Posted by Ghantana
Quick Update:
We would hope that members of our channel could come to any one of us with a complaint and have it handled fairly. |
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This is actually the most impressive thing I have read in a long long time. A hami raid with no lag. Not one computer, in all of the 50 people in the hive, experienced a slow down of any kind from start to finish. The monster phase, the buff phase, the attack phase, and the bloom phase. None, zip, nadda.|
Originally Posted by Ghantana
Quick Update:
Over the weekend several Hami Raids were run. All of them using League mode. None of them using Destiny powers.... AND GUESS WHAT... NO LAG |
So it turns out that all the lag in the hami raid, and by lag I am talking about the slow down that is experienced during gameplay (IE. when 50 people are all in the same place with 15 of them casting AM at the same time) is caused by destiny buffs.
You gotta be on to something, I think you need to write up a bug report to the devs because that has been 7 years of hami raids with lag in them and it could have all been avoided if we had just stopped using destiny buffs.
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Is Erik the Red pulling monsters into the goo again? I'm keeping G-Fly just cuz.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Trix
Bwahahahaahaha! I can't believe I missed this one!!! THIS IS FREEDOM! Hami Raids have been THE venue for non conformity on this server. From the very first days of Oblivion Guard and Top Ten treating the Hive like a turf war over who could kill Hami first, the Hive has been where Freedom's personality morphed into the jerk server. From the swiping HO's with nova tactic, to the Freezing Rain, pulling monsters, spawning Kronos, Mr. Trix's infamous Hami Leech team, J-Man's Hive costume contest, The Rose and Tammy catfights the Hive has historically been Freedom's tipping point of server drama. Since it's Anniversary week, please everyone post your favorite Hami Drama memories here.
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Fixed for historical accuracy.
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Originally Posted by Vander
Is Erik the Great pulling monsters into the goo again? I'm keeping G-Fly just cuz.
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@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
Personally I do have experience mediating disputes in the past for social networking sites. I preformed that function for 8 years before leaving it. I got tired of dealing with people who wouldn't listen.
As for pointing out the other raid leaders of the channel I raid for; they hold star in the channel and are easy to identify. If you are not a member of the channel it's not your concern and since you didn't state the name of the raid leader and/or raiding group you were complaining about I don't see any reason to continue addressing this line of questioning, especially not in a public forum. Either you do not remember who was leading and are simply looking for someone to lash out at or you do remember and don't want such knowledge made public.
FHR is simply a group of players who enjoy raiding. Who respect eachother and play well as a raiding group. It's as simple as that. We are not some dictatorship that plays the hand of the Hami-god. Not some 'Tribunal' of players. We are a private channel that welcomes dedicated and respectful Hami raiders. I feel confident in speaking for the other leaders of FHR when I say we do not condone harrassing of players/raiders or interferring with other raids. We are in this game to have fun and for us beating up a pile of Jello, getting our HO/Merits/Shards and heading on our way is what we like to do. We don't want drama but we understand it comes with the territory. The only thing we ask of our raiders is to listen to the raid leader and team leader and have fun.
Legendaryjman2: As for no lag... I apologize, I should clarify that we did not have the usual lag complaints we had when Destiny powers were in effect and we did not have dc's (except for the handful of peeps who are known to dc often during the raids). The zone was not at full capacity and this also does help, but we did maintain a league count of 36+ for all raids. I don't have the official times for the raids that were on the weekend but all fell within our usual time frames of under 45 min, most under 20 min (after the monster killing phase). The raids that we had led in the same fashion with Destiny powers were taking us well over 90 minutes to complete due to lag and lag related deaths. Since the group I raid with is fairly consistant on who comes and what ATs we have available to us I am confident in saying the changes in time were not due to AT selection.
MothersWomb: The biggest complaint I've heard has been over Barrier. I have not been able to test the lag differences for each as of yet. If anyone has I would love to hear the results. There might just be something about Barrier that is the biggest issue.
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Thanks Turg. The memory isn't as hot as... well it was never great.
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Originally Posted by Turgenev
Fixed for historical accuracy.
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Why would I be looking to lash out at someone? If you read the thread, Rilos, a member of the SG that was leading that particular raid, opened a direct line of communication with me in this thread , I spoke to him in game, assurances were given that there were no lingering issues. He was a straight up guy and I let him know if anything came up with any J-Force members he could contact me directly. |
Originally Posted by Ghantana
Personally I do have experience mediating disputes in the past for social networking sites. I preformed that function for 8 years before leaving it. I got tired of dealing with people who wouldn't listen.
As for pointing out the other raid leaders of the channel I raid for; they hold star in the channel and are easy to identify. If you are not a member of the channel it's not your concern and since you didn't state the name of the raid leader and/or raiding group you were complaining about I don't see any reason to continue addressing this line of questioning, especially not in a public forum. Either you do not remember who was leading and are simply looking for someone to lash out at or you do remember and don't want such knowledge made public. |
The reason I am taking this line of questioning is that it has been suggested to me that rather than voicing a public statement regarding my Hive experience in the forums, I should have instead addressed it in private with what has remained an ambiguous Hami Raid Leader network.
As a service to our community, I am offering those who feel I should have handled this privately an opportunity to establish a contact base for me or anyone reading who may have an issue with Hive related activities. I see now that the opportunity to create an efficient means of communication with the Freedom Forum readers is not a priority for, you know, the people who actually lead the raids.
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I am lashing out. I just finished reading Breaking Dawn and I am full of teenage angst.
| Why would I be looking to lash out at someone? |
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Team J-Man.
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Originally Posted by legendaryjman2
I am lashing out. I just finished reading Breaking Dawn and I am full of teenage angst.
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J-Man- Lieran, if you were Paris Hilton, I'd be the chihuahua in your purse.
Haven't read all the stuff sine the beginning of the second page...
The new griefing is AE Babies on BAF.
I just wrote half a long rant, but it was getting all fired up, so I quit.
this is all i have to say
i miss griefing like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su3wa-SnFg0
I need to hang out in these forums more often. They look interesting. Also, I want to get in on this Hami raid griefing!