Top primaries for ST damage?

Originally Posted by Murdok Your mom's real name is Castle.

With the new buffed Kinetic, I think Kinetic's dps is even higher now. You just have to use the first 3 quick attacks and cycle critical Concentrated Strike correctly to keep Build Up going.

Even if Kinetic has a bit less dps than Energy with constant BU, build up also provides +tohit buff so each hit has an even better chance to hit especially against high defense mobs like Drones.

I have to say Kinetic has really made Energy Melee look bad. I find Kinetic even more fun to play because your mind is constantly trying to count/figure out when to use Concentrated Strike/Placate to keep build up going. It is pretty mind-engaging!

I would still use Eagle Claw in attack chain because it has a sure 3-mag stun and when it critical, it HURTS a lot.

I don't have high +recharge. I basically just cycle, storm, axe, cobra, crane and eagle. I use them whenever they are recharged. There is no one moment where I have no attack to use.

Yeah, MA really doesn't have any bad attacks for single-target DPS other than Thunder Kick - the worst one is Eagle Claw and it's better than anything in Broadsword or Spines (although Ripper is an AoE), is tied with Claws' best in Focus, and has better DPA than Total Focus and no partial critical making it the hardest hitting critical Stalkers get outside of Assassin's Strike (scale 5.84 for EC vs 7 for AS).

That said, you need to get Storm Kick's recharge down to 1.848 seconds (the arcanatime activation for either CAK or CS - they're both the same) in order to do the SK->CAK->SK->CS chain. The base recharge is 6 seconds, so you need 225% recharge in SK (which gives you 6 / (1 + 2.25) = 1.846 sec recharge). That's the most limiting. CS and CAK also each need to recharge in 3.96 seconds, requiring 153% for CS (10 / (1 + 1.53) = 3.953 sec) and 178% for CAK (11 / (1 + 1.78) = 3.957 sec).

Considering the required recharge for a lot of the other sets to reach an "optimal" chain, MA is practically a cakewalk.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

I just use scales and look at relative percentage differences - the scale can be used for tracking damage and slotting easily enough and since it's simply a multiplier the percentage difference will remain the same until you start adding procs (then you have to convert to damage and then add in the proc damage * chance * number of chances).

Besides, when I'm playing I usually just try to remember the rankings for DPA in each individual power and hit the best one that's recharged instead of tracking chains anyway. While that isn't always optimal for DPS, I tend to skip "bad DPA" powers that would cause that issue (based around a lower DPA power activating which keeps you from hitting a better one that's right about to recharge, lowering the overall chain in its animation time).

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Thunder Kick really has no place in Stalker Martial Arts. Its damage isn't good enough and its stun chance is much lower than Cobra and Eagle. It really doesn't serve any purpose at all except for being available at level 1.

I will definitely break the cottage rule, take Thunder Kick out and bring back Dragon Tail. Dragon Tail isn't the best pbaoe in the world but it's an aoe nevertheless. It's ridiculous that MA stalker needs to wait until lvl 44 for a patron aoe.

Build Up increases Caltrop's damage? Good to know!

Actually, the 187 doesn't include Caltrops damage at all. Sooo...it'll be a bit higher than the 187, add in procs and it should be some pretty decent DPS.

It does, but it's like all of the "rain" powers in that damage buffs carry over along with their durations. So for roughly eight seconds, they'll do a bit more damage.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Hmmm...I must of screwed up on this number somewhere, because I'm getting a lower DPS with an IO build going on that can hit the BU > CAL > LR > Assassin Strike every six runs of the DPS chain.

Yup.

This is why Martial Arts is so gimped. Sure, it has a bit more ST DPS but its lack of any aoe is seriously flawed IMO.

I am leveling my lvl 43 Elec/Will now and honestly, his ST damage is decent enough. The mix of Energy/Smashing damage is better than just all Smashing like MA.

Of course. I knew that on all my ST focused toons (which was most of them).

However, with my new ELM/NIN I'm leveling up, I hope to get a good ST output (which I would have a decent one of, if they'd just up the Stalker Damage Mod to Scrapper levels) and good AOE.

One of the things I am going to do with my Elec/Will is to put a lot of proc damage in Thunder Strike. Thunder Strike hurts my ST dps big time (too slow) but when I use it, I want it to HURT.

I am close to getting Ball of Lightning. Once I got that and slotted it, the battle opening is going to be BU, LR, Ball of Lightning, Placate, Thunder/Chained.

I am going to put proc damage and knockdown in Chained Induction as well.


By the way, which other ST-focused toons you have that have zero AoE? Energy Melee Stalker? Even for MA Scrapper, there is Dragon Tail and Dark Melee has a small cone and an aoe that fuels damage big time.

Martial Arts needs some aoe. Eagle Claw hurts but not enough IMO. Hell, my MA/Will has trouble taking down a pylon. I need to find the balance between survival and damage and MA's ST dps is still not impressive. Its full critical potential looks good on paper, but you'll need some close teammates.


For a set that has zero aoe, every attack needs to be FAST. Storm Kick is what I consider a very good MA attack but all the other ones take at least 1.67s, which I feel it's still too long. No attack should be higher than 1.33s activation time IMO. I gotta be able to switch targets quick if all I have is single target. Martial Arts in other fighting games are usually "fast attacking" sets and Stalker's Martial Arts doesn't give me this feeling (but Ninja Blade does. ).

When I said on my ST focused toons, I meant on one I took mostly ST attacks. I think only Stalker MA is the only set without any AOE.

With that, I still suggest the removal of Thunder Kick, give Storm kick it's animation as an alternate animation, and put in DT.

I've never been impressed with the damage of any spines stalker. Mine is completely pathetic, and the others I've seen are not gimpy, but solidly "meh".

Originally Posted by Murdok Your mom's real name is Castle.

It's the weakest set for single-target, but as with all Stalker primaries, at least you've got Placate->AS to lean on a bit.

It's great for AoE though. Along with a patron AoE I can chain AoEs almost non-stop. Elec Melee has a great big hit in LR but once you've used that, you're left plinking away with relatively weak AoEs while it recharges. Throw Spines is such a fun power, and with some range enhancement it covers a huge area. I've been meaning to look into respeccing my spiner to squeeze in a damage proc or two into Throw Spines without sacrificing the range enhancement too much.

Don't get me wrong, I like Elec Melee too. I have more than one Elec Melee Stalker at 50. But it plays very differently from Spines and I enjoy both. Yeah you take longer on bosses when solo with Spines. Fortunately mine is a softcapped Spines/Nin, so I can afford to take my time. If it was something squishier I might feel the difference more.

Another thing I like about Spines is the slows. Runners are kind of ridiculous at times in this game (IMO), so controlling them is a nice QoL item for me. It's one of the reasons I roll Brutes over Scrappers when a combo is available for either.

Originally Posted by Murdok Your mom's real name is Castle.

I'll argue the "great for aoe". Yes it has several. But they all unequivocally suck balls except for throw spines which is mediocre. Even on a crit with 99% enhanced damage it won't kill even con minions in my experience.

Fire sword circle will without a crit (either from brute or scrapper). Lightning Rod will. Thunderstrike can with a crit or buildup. Hell, even shadow maul has done it from time to time. I've hit buildup, throw spines and the burst power and still had 3/4 of a spawn alive and above 50% HP. Eviscerate is at best going to drop 2 of them at that point, but probably not.

And that burst power whose name I always forget is really terrible solo. the root plus slow activation have gotten me killed so often I have shelved the character. Enemies aggro at teh beginning of the power even if you're hidden, and don't take damage until, what 1.7 seconds or is it over 2? I know on a tip mission I've had mangle hit me twice and be part-way through a third attack before the damage from my power hit him, and I was hidden when I triggered it.

"great for aoe" is more along the lines of buildup-aoe-aoe and only looking at bosses and on or two lucky guys. No build I have ever seen is capable of making the stalker version of spines into that. But if anyone has one, please share.

Quantity does not substitute for quality.

Nothing interrupts placate, it is not an interruptable power. On the other hand any source of damage breaks the pseudo-hidden state placate grants.

You still want reactive. Just attack fast.

Originally Posted by Murdok Your mom's real name is Castle.

EM doesn't have any AoE attacks either, and I love the idea of removing Thunder Kick and Stun in exchange for Dragon's Tail and (even) Whirling Hands.

It's not going to happen, but that doesn't mean I can't want it. Or the AS boost brought up in another thread. Or an overall damage scale change.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.