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If they did that for Stalker MA, then Scrappers would want it!|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
If they won't take out Thunder Kick, then I want MA to be a lot faster. Most attacks are like 1.67 or longer which seems too long for a set that has zero aoe.
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That said, turning all those attacks into 1.188 second (accounting for arcanatime) would make for a fun and fast set, if they didnt mess with the dmg/end/rch.
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Scrapper gets Dragon Tail at least! DT can at least hit 3-4 targets and doesn't Scrapper gets an interesting critical buff after Eagle Claw or something? Oh and Scrapper has secondary sets that add more aoe damage (dot aura, shield charge, burn, etc). |
Originally Posted by BrandX
If they did that for Stalker MA, then Scrappers would want it!
That said, turning all those attacks into 1.188 second (accounting for arcanatime) would make for a fun and fast set, if they didnt mess with the dmg/end/rch. |
Yes, our Eagle Claw does a bit more damage (it's actually not that much more because Scrapper's base damage is so high) but it is still a single target and kinda slow.
I just think for a set that has zero AoE, it needs to activate a lot faster so your attacks are not wasted in slow motion and you can switch targets quicker. 1.67s in Cobra, Crane and Axe just seem slow. I know it's 10s recharge attack which hits pretty hard but it is still one target.
They need to tune down activation time the way they did for Ninja Blade. Cobra, Crane and Axe need to be tuned down to at least 1.33s and Eagle needs to be 1.67 IMO.
With that change, DPA should be a lot higher for those 4 attacks so why would you use Thunder/Storm? Well, you don't need to! That's the problem when you create a set with 7 Single Target attacks. It never makes sense to me and I really want to know how the dev thinks it's "balanced". Martial Arts' single target damage is high but it's not THAT high that you can kill each +0 minion in one hit. Actually, I know MA has the highest ST damage (before resistance is factored in) but is it at least 30-35% higher than Dual Blade, Ninja and Kinetic? Energy Melee needs more love too btw.
And because Eagle Claw hits hard, I rarely use Assassin Strike. AS is too slow already and it is still only Single Target.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
well wen it comes down to the top ST dmage sets I'd take DM over MA because of it's overall greater utility with Siphon Life and a small AOE cone.
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It having a negative energy aspect is really nice too.
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Originally Posted by Golden_Pie
well wen it comes down to the top ST dmage sets I'd take DM over MA because of it's overall greater utility with Siphon Life and a small AOE cone.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Yup and all of Dark Melee attacks can critical too so when you are on a full team, it may out-damage Energy Melee because EM has one attack that only does portion critical and one doesn't critical. |
Originally Posted by Golden_Pie
well wen it comes down to the top ST dmage sets I'd take DM over MA because of it's overall greater utility with Siphon Life and a small AOE cone.
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Hence I say Martial Arts needs more buffs considering its top ST number can be hammered a lot by some tough smashing resistance and its utilities are not as good as Dark Melee.
I just think MA needs to activate faster. It feels slowish to me.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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That is very very interesting... you may have just helped me decide on my next alt.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
Electric is special, because LR is a "pet" and does not break hide. This means you can run your regular chain (CI>CB>JL>CB) and insert (Caltrops>BU>LR>AS) and end up getting a fully "hidden" AS. Caltrops and WS are also pets, so they don't break hide, and Buildup also does not. By the time those things are finished activating you will be back in hide without having used placate. (Can't be hit for this to work, so it helps also that nin is defense based).
While the regular part of your chain does something like ~128.5 dps with tohit clamp, purple procs, and -res proc, the bit with Lightning Rod and AS averages out to about 189 dps, not counting any damage done by Waterspout or Caltrops. That boosts your average dps by a lot or a little, depending on your recharge values. By the way, Caltrops and Waterspout do generally good DPA if we were allowed to include them. |
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
Im sure this is a stupid question, because I am 99.9% sure I already know the answer, but since i don't have a high level stalker to check on, this seems like the best thread to ask in...
I assume the ingame numbers help and red tomax's site have the correct values for stalker blaze mastery, as opposed to mids which states unslotted RoF does 181 damage and unslotted fire blast does 137? I mean, it would be ridiculous if those numbers were accurate, and i know people would be using them for their chains in this thread if they were, but just figured i should check 
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Of course, if those are accurate, i think I would finally be able to build a "melee" character that I enjoyed
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I'm fairly certain that Mid's still always counts the critical on the PPP and APP ranged attacks (and I'm not sure why it does, since it works for other things).|
Originally Posted by Shadowy_Dream
Im sure this is a stupid question, because I am 99.9% sure I already know the answer, but since i don't have a high level stalker to check on, this seems like the best thread to ask in...
I assume the ingame numbers help and red tomax's site have the correct values for stalker blaze mastery, as opposed to mids which states unslotted RoF does 181 damage and unslotted fire blast does 137? I mean, it would be ridiculous if those numbers were accurate, and i know people would be using them for their chains in this thread if they were, but just figured i should check .Of course, if those are accurate, i think I would finally be able to build a "melee" character that I enjoyed |
So yes, the damage numbers you see in-game and on City of Data are the ones you should look at. Stalkers don't do more damage than Blasters with those powers... although they do get a 100% critical rate on Fireball from Hide, unlike Ball Lightning's and Disruptor Blast's 50% or the no "from-Hidden" critical from anything in Body, Darkness, or Weapon Mastery.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I think Mid's database is just wrong for the PPP and APP powers in some places. If you hover your cursor over the damage line in the power detail in Mid's you can see what it thinks the power does and in the case of RoF it lists the critical damage not once, but TWICE, and does not qualify either line by the percentage chance it can happen.
You CAN tell Mid's in the option, Effects&Maths tab, not to calculate the "Extra" damage, in which case it will ignore all "chance of" effects and just give you the base damage. But in this case, because the power detail is just plain entered wrong, it will still show the incorrect total.
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So, jumping in with some questions due to the i21 changes.
Do the new travel power attacks break hide? Do they crit from hide? Are any of them any good?
Just wondering if MA/ can duplicate the electric trick of waterspout-buildup-lightingrod-AS by using waterspout-buildup-springattack-AS and if so, is that at all worth while?
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
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Is it ever worthwhile? Does it really make up for not having a Fireball that can 100% crit from Hide? Does it work out often enough that you don't get hit while executing all those pseudo-pet attacks and can still crit with AS at the end?
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Just wondering if MA/ can duplicate the electric trick of waterspout-buildup-lightingrod-AS by using waterspout-buildup-springattack-AS and if so, is that at all worth while?
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Fireball isn't relevant to a discussion of single-target damage unless it does moer than a ST attack.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Is it ever worthwhile? Does it really make up for not having a Fireball that can 100% crit from Hide? Does it work out often enough that you don't get hit while executing all those pseudo-pet attacks and can still crit with AS at the end?
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as far as your questions however, Microcosm seems to think so, and he's tried it. I have not. but am looking at making at least 1 stalker for Exalted and not sure what sets to take. Besides, can always go /nin and use caltrops instead of waterspout and if there's a group, fireball instead of AS.
but my question was more about single-target damage, not aoe. The postulate from microcosm was that in ST damage, the waterspout/lightning rod trick was a significant boost to elm's damage. My question is to extrapolate: is the same true of other sets using the new attacks?
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Sorry, the forums wouldn't let me log in for days. To answer your question, it might give a small boost (havent checked the math), but not nearly as much as electric melee. Electric melee can do this every time lightning rod and buildup recharge, as long as it has either caltrops or waterspout or the jump to combine with it. All other sets would only be able to do it as often as jump was recharged, which will be significantly longer. Also lightning rod is a very strong attack and one you would want to use as recharged regardless, which is not necessarily true of the leap attack.|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Fireball isn't relevant to a discussion of single-target damage unless it does moer than a ST attack.
as far as your questions however, Microcosm seems to think so, and he's tried it. I have not. but am looking at making at least 1 stalker for Exalted and not sure what sets to take. Besides, can always go /nin and use caltrops instead of waterspout and if there's a group, fireball instead of AS. but my question was more about single-target damage, not aoe. The postulate from microcosm was that in ST damage, the waterspout/lightning rod trick was a significant boost to elm's damage. My question is to extrapolate: is the same true of other sets using the new attacks? |
By the way it would need to be waterspout>Caltrops>BU>leap>AS to pull it off.
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Cool, thanks!
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
Sorry, the forums wouldn't let me log in for days. To answer your question, it might give a small boost (havent checked the math), but not nearly as much as electric melee. Electric melee can do this every time lightning rod and buildup recharge, as long as it has either caltrops or waterspout or the jump to combine with it. All other sets would only be able to do it as often as jump was recharged, which will be significantly longer. Also lightning rod is a very strong attack and one you would want to use as recharged regardless, which is not necessarily true of the leap attack.
By the way it would need to be waterspout>Caltrops>BU>leap>AS to pull it off. |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
It's not going to happen, but that doesn't mean I can't want it. Or the AS boost brought up in another thread. Or an overall damage scale change.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.