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Scrapper's critical with other epic powers. I crit all the time with LBE and ET.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I just want them to add critical to Epic sets. And I am surprised that Scrapper can critical with Fireball and not with other epics.
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On topic, I'm working on my second Stalker that doesn't bother with AS. My 50 Stalker took it at 49 and never uses it. Poorly designed power IMO. Should be much quicker cast with a longer recharge.
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Oh, Scrapper can critical with Eye Beam and Throwing Stars? That's strange.... I've tested throwing stars on Stalker and they don't critical at all. I thought it's because Scrapper's version doesn't critical and they forgot to "turn it on" for Stalker's version. blah...I am so confused. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Scrapper's critical with other epic powers. I crit all the time with LBE and ET.
On topic, I'm working on my second Stalker that doesn't bother with AS. My 50 Stalker took it at 49 and never uses it. Poorly designed power IMO. Should be much quicker cast with a longer recharge. |
I just don't know why Fireball can critical while throwing stars can't. And I've respec my build so I won't be testing throwing stars any time soon. I just don't think it's going to take that much time to add critical back.
Yes, I agree that Assassin Strike is a poorly designed power. I can see the limitation/restrictions for PvP purpose but the power itself is not very practical in PvE especially in high level environment. You really don't need interruption in PvE. It takes 4s and a hidden status already and it takes away some important aoe powers.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
AS should be an inherent Stalker power!
I don't like the way everyone seems to see AS as needing to be used after Placate/BU *every* time you use it. Assassin Strike's recharge is far quicker than either of the 'preparatory' powers, such that I can use it twice while before BU is ready to boost it, and frequently do against EBs and AVs.
AS is a valuable power that, on my Stalker at least, deals more damage per strike than any other attack I have (Ninja Blade) even without the Critical damage. Having put a Touch of Death damage proc in it increases its usefulness. I'm aware the DPS is lower due to the interrupt time, but a well timed high-damage strike can work better than low, steady damage against tough opponents
I would never drop AS!!!
It's a great place for level 15 kinetic combat on my EA stalker!!
Kidding aside, assassin strike is only good for set bonuses.
I only keep it on my tray for when I exemplar into the sub teens.
Anyone who says they use AS more than any other attack has a seriously sub optimal play style, and probably contributes to the (somewhat deserved) notion stalkers are the weakest AT.
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AS has some weird situations where it works better backwards.
A short while ago I was on a Manticore TF with my Rogue Stalker.
Whenever I saw a Paragon Protector I used AS towards the end of it's Health Bar. Just before they pop the Tier 9's. AS was strong enough to drop them and made the TF so much easier.
The same should hold true against Fake Nemesis and timing an AS after a Carnie phases back in makes life tremendously easier.
Of course these are all edge cases, that work around AS limitations.
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The reason people say not to use it except when Hidden is that in almost all cases... they are right. Yeah, AS's "waylay" (the portion of damage it does outside of Hide) is scalar 2.5 damage. The highest normal attack Ninja Blade has is Golden Dragonfly at 2.28 scalar. But the problem is that even if you're NEVER interrupted while using AS, it still takes 3.67 seconds to land. That's twice as much time as it takes Golden Dragonfly to animate. You're always going to do more damage with an attack chain that does NOT include Assassin Strike. At least for Ninja Blade this is true and it is true for most other primaries as well. Might not be true for Spines or Elec Melee but I haven't really run the numbers.|
Originally Posted by Seyshara
AS is a valuable power that, on my Stalker at least, deals more damage per strike than any other attack I have (Ninja Blade) even without the Critical damage. Having put a Touch of Death damage proc in it increases its usefulness. I'm aware the DPS is lower due to the interrupt time, but a well timed high-damage strike can work better than low, steady damage against tough opponents
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Again, that's even if you're never interrupted. If you actually tracked how many times you got interrupted and averaged it out over time it would look even worse. Don't use AS outside of Hide. Seriously. Unless you just like how it looks or something. You're not doing yourself any favors on damage output.
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True, but to be absolutely fair the degree to which some people slam AS is also exaggerated. It is good for what it is designed to be used for: A big ST alpha strike. From Hide, there is no better DPA you have access to if nailing a single target is your goal. No attack chain, even from Martial Arts or Dark Melee, will beat using AS from Hide provided you are not interrupted.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
I would never drop AS!!!
Anyone who says they use AS more than any other attack has a seriously sub optimal play style, and probably contributes to the (somewhat deserved) notion stalkers are the weakest AT. |
The other thing that is often brought up is the nonsense about "not having time" to use AS on a steamrolling team. The problem with this scenario is that no one bothers to justify what ELSE they might do. They just assume that if they can manage to put some damage into an enemy before someone else on the team kills it anyway... they have "contributed". If you truly are on a team that, without you, is already killing everything (including all bosses) in the spawn before you can land an Assassin Strike then the truth is that there is NOTHING you can add to that team. Another AoE isn't going to kill the spawn faster. If the bosses are dying in under four seconds then the minions and LTs are being vaporized even faster. Really... what are you going to do in that situation? Blow off an AoE and beat someone else to overkilling some trash minion? Yay?
Not that AS can't be improved. I'd love it if they could rework all the animations to standardize on the 2.67s cast time of KM's AS. Then they should just make the thing uninterruptible. Or at the very least cut it's interrupt time to 1s or even 0.5s. This would require you to plant yourself to begin the animation but have a very small chance of being interrupted. I think that would be enough to make it a whole lot more useful in more situations.
But alas, I think the will to spend any more time on Stalkers is all but gone entirely from the dev team. At least anything that would involve art time. Reducing interrupt time might be good enough and should only require changing a number in the powers database, I would think.
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I think the easiest and most interesting change would be to make it accept sniper sets and be affected by all mods.
Note: I am not in any way shape or form saying to make it a ranged attack or to use the stalker ranged attack scale. I am saying let it accept snipe sets, and let the snipe bonuses increase the range beyond 7 feet. That is all.
This would give us some very juicy set bonuses you don't find in the melee sets. It makes AS a much more interesting power. And the small range mod would make it easier to use. And you can significantly reduce the interrupt.
Would be a very interesting change I think. Something fun.
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I think AS has a place in taking out an enemy when you start fighting, and also in Placate + Build Up + AS on an EB or AV. It's not useful in every group, or every time, but it is useful enough of the time that I keep it. If you disagree, go ahead and skip it.
If I saw a Stalker without AS I'd think that was a bit odd, but I wouldn't react as if they were a petless Mastermind. If you feel like you're not getting enough out of a power, don't take it.
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If they nerf Burst I'm gonna be pissed. I rolled a KM/Nin as a pvp/pve hybrid largely based on the pve burst 100% crit capability. Otherwise I dislike stalkers for pve alltogether.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Well, I've tried throwing stars from Weapon Mastery and those attacks DO NOT critical. I've submitted Bug Report 3 times. Yes, I am surprised that Fireball critical for Scrapper assuming the other 3 epic sets don't critical. That's what my concerns are.
Yes, I do know Stalker gets 100% critical from "most" ST attacks. Some AoEs have 50% and I know one has 30% (Spine Burst). I can't remember the exact number but Spine Burst doesn't have 50%. And now we have Burst doing 100% critical from hidden. I just want them to add critical to Epic sets. And I am surprised that Scrapper can critical with Fireball and not with other epics. Can Scrapper critical with patron sets assuming they never change the coding? They didn't change the coding from scrapper to stalker so I am assuming Scrapper can critical with stalker's patron sets. |
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It's curious they haven't done anything yet about Burst or Fireball. My most optimistic guess as to why is that they are quietly collecting data to see if they should do this for all Stalker AoEs... but I kinda doubt it. I think they just haven't bothered to fix it. Other epics don't crit at all, in or out of Hide, like Shuriken.
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Originally Posted by Syndace
If they nerf Burst I'm gonna be pissed. I rolled a KM/Nin as a pvp/pve hybrid largely based on the pve burst 100% crit capability. Otherwise I dislike stalkers for pve alltogether.
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All of the villian PPPs crit out of hide.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
On any team of Stalkers, I don't want to see any AS-less chaps.
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there's more than a few lady stalkers out there I wouldn't mind seeing in that getup. =)|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
On any team of Stalkers, I don't want to see any AS-less chaps.
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Note: I do get and appreciate the pun.
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I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
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My post was poorly worded. I meant "some" other epics do not crit in or out of hide. The basic ST and AoE attack powers in the PPPs do crit. The two damage-dealing controls in the PPPs do NOT crit. NONE of the powers in any of APPs except for Blaze Mastery, can crit. Scrappers can crit with these APPs. Stalkers cannot.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
All of the villian PPPs crit out of hide.
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Blaze Mastery is an exception to all of the above. ALL of its damage dealing powers, including the controls can crit in and out of Hide. And the AoE crits for full damage.
At least this is all according to City of Data which was updated fairly recently. I don't have personal experience with all of the PPP and APP sets for Stalkers.
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Quote:
The answer is very simple.|
Originally Posted by Zem
My post was poorly worded. I meant "some" other epics do not crit in or out of hide. The basic ST and AoE attack powers in the PPPs do crit. The two damage-dealing controls in the PPPs do NOT crit. NONE of the powers in any of APPs except for Blaze Mastery, can crit. Scrappers can crit with these APPs. Stalkers cannot.
Blaze Mastery is an exception to all of the above. ALL of its damage dealing powers, including the controls can crit in and out of Hide. And the AoE crits for full damage. At least this is all according to City of Data which was updated fairly recently. I don't have personal experience with all of the PPP and APP sets for Stalkers. |
The devs did a half ***** job porting the APPs to stalkers.
And can't be bothered to fix things in an AT that is pretty much dead.
(LOL PLACATE BUG).
There is no other explaination that covers the outcome.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
I use AS simply as an opening attack during hidden state and rarely if ever use placate. Can't even use it on BAFs because lag is so bad. Otherwise, I never want to lose it as I really like the dynamic of the stalker-class but it's purely there for the start of chains.
I'll agree with those who say it's situational. Teaming in missions, I often only use it as a lead attack, unless we're dealing with an AV that's taking some effort to put down; in Trials, I've found that I rarely, if ever, use it. Solo, however, I use it all the time. Since I love soloing my stalkers I get more than enough use out of it to make it worthwhile, but YMMV. If you're never using it, then I could certainly understand the decision to go without.
Stalker ST attacks get a 100% crit chance from Hide. AoEs are only supposed to get a 50% crit chance from Hide.
Well, I've tried throwing stars from Weapon Mastery and those attacks DO NOT critical. I've submitted Bug Report 3 times. Yes, I am surprised that Fireball critical for Scrapper assuming the other 3 epic sets don't critical. That's what my concerns are.
Yes, I do know Stalker gets 100% critical from "most" ST attacks. Some AoEs have 50% and I know one has 30% (Spine Burst). I can't remember the exact number but Spine Burst doesn't have 50%. And now we have Burst doing 100% critical from hidden.
I just want them to add critical to Epic sets. And I am surprised that Scrapper can critical with Fireball and not with other epics. Can Scrapper critical with patron sets assuming they never change the coding? They didn't change the coding from scrapper to stalker so I am assuming Scrapper can critical with stalker's patron sets.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.