Flash Freeze and Sleep Grenade too. (Assuming they trigger the proc, as both deal damage.)
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Pretty simple solution suggests itself immediately: |
Originally Posted by Vanden
Or just Reactive if it's possible. Otherwise the DoT makes the power pretty useless.
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If you have a Mind Control character and want to use Mezmerize for it's sleep effect.....don't slot Reactive in it
I really see no reason to exclude something from working in certain powers just because it isn't doing what you want, when the option is available to not use the thing that is not working how you want it to.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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This. It's the same reason you don't slot proc IOs into non-aggro powers, because they have exactly the same effect.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Pretty simple solution suggests itself immediately:
If you have a Mind Control character and want to use Mezmerize for it's sleep effect.....don't slot Reactive in it I really see no reason to exclude something from working in certain powers just because it isn't doing what you want, when the option is available to not use the thing that is not working how you want it to. |
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I disagree, as you're not slotting it in Mezmerise you're slotting it across the board. Most would choose not to slot a sleep for damage over time procs if those IOs existed, but they'd be plenty popular in other attacks. Why should you have to avoid reactive if you enjoy using Mezmerise/Flash Freeze/Siren's Song to do what the powers say they do?|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Pretty simple solution suggests itself immediately:
If you have a Mind Control character and want to use Mezmerize for it's sleep effect.....don't slot Reactive in it I really see no reason to exclude something from working in certain powers just because it isn't doing what you want, when the option is available to not use the thing that is not working how you want it to. |
Having said that, the extra damage vs the usefulness of the sleep is another matter, and I'd pick damage every time on a team.
Defiant EU
Quaver: Kinetics/Sonic Defender
Semiquaver: Sonic/Kinetics Corruptor
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Originally Posted by Quaver
I disagree, as you're not slotting it in Mezmerise you're slotting it across the board. Most would choose not to slot a sleep for damage over time procs if those IOs existed, but they'd be plenty popular in other attacks. Why should you have to avoid reactive if you enjoy using Mezmerise/Flash Freeze/Siren's Song to do what the powers say they do?
Having said that, the extra damage vs the usefulness of the sleep is another matter, and I'd pick damage every time on a team. |
That's the thing, you can switch it out depending on the team make-up, so if you want to focus on Control more you can switch to something like the -ToHit interface instead. If you want to focus on damage you can go with the DoT. Unlike IOs you don't slot it once and then forget about it forevermore.
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And I do make use of this and am glad it exists, but it seems an oversight that if I want more damage on the rest of my attacks I have to resign myself to the fact that Siren's Song is now mostly obsolete. And if I want to make it work as intended I have to go with a different interface entirely. Also strange because most sleeps that do damage aren't really sold as attacks in the first place, the damage is basically there to prevent easy stacking.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
That's the thing, you can switch it out depending on the team make-up, so if you want to focus on Control more you can switch to something like the -ToHit interface instead. If you want to focus on damage you can go with the DoT. Unlike IOs you don't slot it once and then forget about it forevermore.
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Defiant EUQuaver: Kinetics/Sonic DefenderSemiquaver: Sonic/Kinetics Corruptor
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Look at how I worded it. |
Originally Posted by Quaver
I disagree, as you're not slotting it in Mezmerise you're slotting it across the board.
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I said: "If you have a Mind Control character and want to make use of the sleep....don't slot Reactive in it."
I was referring to slotting Reactive in the character, not the power, as I am very well aware that it applies to all your powers.
On the subject of Siren's Song: Siren's Song exists in a set that can already stack a significant amount of -resistance. I don't see much need for even more of it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I misunderstood "it" as referring to the power, not Mind Control characters. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Look at how I worded it.
I said: "If you have a Mind Control character and want to make use of the sleep....don't slot Reactive in it." I was referring to slotting Reactive in the character, not the power, as I am very well aware that it applies to all your powers. On the subject of Siren's Song: Siren's Song exists in a set that can already stack a significant amount of -resistance. I don't see much need for even more of it. |
And yes I agree with your second point, however this makes the DoT even more valuable. The extra -res is just a bonus. Frankly I appreciate the extra chance(s) for damage, but sleeps are flimsy enough. It feels like an oversight.
Defiant EUQuaver: Kinetics/Sonic DefenderSemiquaver: Sonic/Kinetics Corruptor
You do know that not every Boost in Reactive Interface has the DoT, right?
So simply craft another one that doesn't have DoT for that tasty -Res. Is it that hard?
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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From my experience, the damage is more effective than the 10% -res. Also neither tier 4 offers one without the other. Ofc you don't have to aim that high but the -res is still very low by itself.
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Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
You do know that not every Boost in Reactive Interface has the DoT, right?
So simply craft another one that doesn't have DoT for that tasty -Res. Is it that hard? |
Defiant EUQuaver: Kinetics/Sonic DefenderSemiquaver: Sonic/Kinetics Corruptor Alright, if people can't see why it's wrong that the best Reactive powers ruin damaging Sleep powers I'm not gonna bother trying to convince them.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Does Interface add on to non-aggro powers like Mass Hypnosis? If so, that would break the 'don't notify mobs' portion no matter what Interface you used.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Doubt it, as I don't recall those powers having any damage portions. (So I dont think Interface can even proc off them)
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Does Interface add on to non-aggro powers like Mass Hypnosis? If so, that would break the 'don't notify mobs' portion no matter what Interface you used.
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Only 1 of the sleep powers broken by the DoT proc is in Mind Control, so that's really not particularly helpful. (Thinking further on it there are 6 sleep powers that also deal damage. Flash Freeze (Ice Control), Siren's Song (Sonic Blast), Frozen Aura (Ice Melee), Sleep Grenade (Blaster Munitions Mastery), Mesmerize (Mind Control) and Will Domination (Psychic Blast).)|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Look at how I worded it.
I said: "If you have a Mind Control character and want to make use of the sleep....don't slot Reactive in it." I was referring to slotting Reactive in the character, not the power, as I am very well aware that it applies to all your powers. On the subject of Siren's Song: Siren's Song exists in a set that can already stack a significant amount of -resistance. I don't see much need for even more of it. |
So that's 5 sets and an APP with powers that are at least partially broken by the Reactive DoT proc.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Does Interface add on to non-aggro powers like Mass Hypnosis? If so, that would break the 'don't notify mobs' portion no matter what Interface you used.
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@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
1 of 2 things should happen. The procs should be removed if it defeats the purpose of the power (like damaging something after it is put to sleep) or have the description changed to say ALL damaging attacks, excluding temps, instead of MOST damaging attacks.
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Yup, that was a brain fart on my part.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Only powers that are Enhanceable for damage will trigger the Interface procs. Mass Hypnosis/Spores/blaster Frozen Aura/Static Field all work fine still.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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It's not wrong. |
Originally Posted by Vanden
Alright, if people can't see why it's wrong that the best Reactive powers ruin damaging Sleep powers I'm not gonna bother trying to convince them.
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It's a choice you made. You chose to slot something that added a DoT effect to all your damage dealing powers, which by it's very nature will not be compatible with sleeps.
If something were introduced that ruined sleep powers regardless of any decision you yourself made, I would agree that it is wrong. Since YOU chose to slot that, knowing full well that you have a sleep power that will be ruined by it, I have no sympathy.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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People put procs in Confuse. It's not broken, it's a choice. Those procs - if they fire - turn aggro (once the confuse wears off, if anything's alive) back to the user. |
Originally Posted by Vanden
Alright, if people can't see why it's wrong that the best Reactive powers ruin damaging Sleep powers I'm not gonna bother trying to convince them.
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People put procs in Flash Arrow. Again, not broken, but a choice, and one that causes aggro to a non-aggroing power.
Your *choice* to use a damaging DOT along with a sleep power is the same thing. And Mezmerise is not just "a sleep power." It is an attack. It causes damage on its own. That damage is what triggers the effect, not just the use of the power.
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On the other hand, those procs are choices for a single power. Reactive is a choice for the entire character. It may be that Reactive is a great idea... for every power the character has except Mesmerize.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
People put procs in Confuse. It's not broken, it's a choice. Those procs - if they fire - turn aggro (once the confuse wears off, if anything's alive) back to the user.
People put procs in Flash Arrow. Again, not broken, but a choice, and one that causes aggro to a non-aggroing power. Your *choice* to use a damaging DOT along with a sleep power is the same thing. And Mezmerise is not just "a sleep power." It is an attack. It causes damage on its own. That damage is what triggers the effect, not just the use of the power. |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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The procs also do not work in DoT rain powers like caltrops or rain of fire from my experience.
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Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
1 of 2 things should happen. The procs should be removed if it defeats the purpose of the power (like damaging something after it is put to sleep) or have the description changed to say ALL damaging attacks, excluding temps, instead of MOST damaging attacks.
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I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Every time I've taken Mesmerize on a character it was primarily for the damage, and the sleep was just a useful side effect. So I would want the DoT to work as DoT with Mesmerize. (The sleep effect is most useful at lower levels when you're trying to solo and keep multiple mobs at bay at once -- by level 50 the sleep in Mesmerize has been moot for 30-odd levels.)|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
On the other hand, those procs are choices for a single power. Reactive is a choice for the entire character. It may be that Reactive is a great idea... for every power the character has except Mesmerize.
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Now, Siren's Song is a different story. I use that primarily as a sleep, and a DoT in that would be bad. But that doesn't mean that Reactive is broken. It means the DoT powers in Reactive are inappropriate for that character. Which means that I would slot Total Core Interface on that character, and never bother with a T4. Or I'd slot Diamagnetic because that character already has considerable -res debuffs.
Finally, I have to say that, even as a big fan of sleeps, they are pretty much worthless on the trials. The mobs are higher level and highly sleep resistant, so even if you find a place to use them their performance is pretty spotty.
Mesmerize has a mag 4 sleep, which means it works on bosses in one shot. It's my emergency boss-stopper. I kinda need it for its sleep every time I use it.
I don't think it makes sense for an incarnate power to ruin a power's primary purpose like that, and Reactive is the best choice for my character otherwise.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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It's been explained already. |
Originally Posted by Vanden
Mesmerize has a mag 4 sleep, which means it works on bosses in one shot. It's my emergency boss-stopper. I kinda need it for its sleep every time I use it.
I don't think it makes sense for an incarnate power to ruin a power's primary purpose like that, and Reactive is the best choice for my character otherwise. |
You CHOSE to put Reactive on your character, knowing full well what effect a DoT would have on your sleep.
It is NOT something that was done without your knowledge or participation, and should not be excluded only from certain powers just so you can make a choice with no consequences.
Your choice: Slot Reactive and lose the efectiveness of your sleep -OR- Keep your sleep and lose the DoT.
What's next, you want to be able to attack that target without breaking the sleep too?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Yeah I'm not reading your posts because you made it clear that you're against my suggestion so I don't have much incentive to engage you in discussion.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Or just Reactive if it's possible. Otherwise the DoT makes the power pretty useless.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.