?/Storm, The Whys and Why nots

Hey there, most of my characters are damage-oriented (brute,scrap,blast,corr) and I want my controller to be as such too. I've decided to pick storm for my secondary because I love the powerset, but I have no idea what to pick for a primary. I've narrowed it down to either fire, earth, illusion, or gravity, but I want to know the benefits and downsides of each. Damage potential, Aoe vs ST, Solo or Team, etc. I don't care about AVs and Plants dont sit right with me, any help is welcome.

I think Local Man summed it up nicely. Not much to add. I have a 50 Gravity/Storm. Solos reasonably well with it's single target attack chain. Prefers to initiate the fight and use terrain to make kill/control zones. Very flashy sfx.

I have played often with pals who have the other combos. Earth is very control-y (though can also be made into a damage proc monster), Fire is a pbaoe damage machine (for a controller), illusion is the master of semi-controlled chaos. It's fun, chaotic and flashy and no melee character will ever want to team with you (but a team of Ill/Storms) is hilarious. Earth and Fire are more team friendly. Earth solos the slowest throughout, Illusion will will solo well at start, but fall behind the Fire when it can maximize pets+aoe attacks+containment.

Any of those combos would be fun to play regardless.

I've been greatly disappointed by my Gravity/Storm (and finally deleted it at lvl 44). In a team, I felt like my only contribution was Freezing Rain + Crushing Field, Snow Storm on a boss and sometimes O2 Boost on an ally.

I think I only have bad memories with this toon actually (even though other players certainly have had a lot of fun with a Grav/Storm). One of my friends was facing Siege with a few teammates in a Maria Jenkins mission, without getting to counter its regen. I thought I could help with all the debuff and damage from Storm and actually... not. And even if it had changed anything, I didn't have enough end to keep all these toggles running during all the fight + resummoning Freezing Rain, Tornado and Lightning Storm as soon as possible (I had 2 endRdx in each of them I think).

There was also this time when our tank dropped us at the beginning of the first mission (>.>) and where the brute wasn't able to stand anything for long. We were faceplanting so often. I kept on telling myself that with any of my other controllers I could have confused/held/stunned almost every mobs but with this one I couldn't.

I also tried to "herdicane" mobs sometimes (especially the ones behind who are not aggroed if the tank only hits those who are just in front of him). Once we were fighting Arachnos, with Mus and Tarantula mistresses quietly shooting at us from range. I went ahead to push them back in melee, and when they formed a little nice pack, something knocked them back in every direction =.= WHO DARED?! That was my Singularity, who tried to follow me, got in the middle of the group and repelled everything >.>

I really had fun in a team where there was no melee ATs, only blasters, a Storm/ defender and myself. Knockback everywhere and nobody to complain ^___^ It happened once.

I'm also not convinced by powers that let you place foes (Hurricane, Wormhole but also Telekinesis on a Mind troller), since a tank or anything with taunt abilities can do it better and safer, without having to say "wait, I'm going to use my 3 seconds activating TP+stun+knockback to neuter this spawn, I just have to find something to hide myself behind... ok there's nothing on this outside map, nevermind".

If I had to make another /Storm, I think I would go for Earth/Storm, something with a -kb immob to unleash elements on foes from range and with actual controls in the primary.

On this controller I took Gravity Distortion, Crush, Propel and a ST blast from an APP. Certainly not the most optimized use of slots but it allowed me to keep Propel in case of low level exemplaring (even if I grew bored of "necro-blasting" as you say, I admit I primarily made a Gravity/ controller after having seen this power ^^). At higher levels, I had a fast animating attack chain made of GD + Crush + ST Blast.

On PuG I often team with various AT and it doesn't really matter which power sets I chose as long as I don't play them too bad. But in my SG I'm often the only one who's not playing a tanker or DPS so my controls or buffs must be effective. Maybe that's also why I was so frustrated by this character.

Thanks for the help, I prefer large teams over soloing but I also like doing some damage so I'll try out fire 1st. But if I find I prefer controls over damage on a CONTROLler(lol), I'll go earth. Plants dont sit right with me cause I dont like confuse. Confuse is great for control as I've seen, but wouldn't it be bad lvling up if all the enemies are killing each other and you are getting poor exp cause of them offing themselves? I'm kinda impatient so I get really annoyed when a mind troll has to kill a few with confuse...If we have to kill a few each mob, lower the difficulty >.>

P.S. Sorry for the Rant

There is a common misunderstanding of the effect of Confuse powers. If you understand them, you can maximize the use of confuse powers as an excellent control power and have a net result of killing stuff faster. My Illusion/Rad guide actually has a long section on the misunderstandings about confusion powers.

Frankly, if you are looking for a */Storm controller for larger teams, I would agree that Plant/Storm is an excellent choice. You "lose" almost no XP to the confuse in Seeds of Confusion due to the fact that you should almost always follow it up with Roots (which does twice the damage of other AoE Immob powers -- which is then doubled by Containment).

Several people have actually tested the net XP/Time using Confuse powers and not using them, and the XP/Time using Confuse powers is greater than or equal to not using them -- as long as you make sure to do some damage to the foes. Which is easy when you have Roots.

When a confused foe attacks another foe (the Target), the confused foe may do some damage to the Target. However, if you or your team or your pets do damage to that Target, you not only get the XP you earned, you also get some of the XP earned by the confused foe -- you actually get bonus XP you did not earn. For example, if you do 50% of the total damage, you earn 80% of the total XP. This means that you defeat more foes faster, complete missions faster and overall earn more XP even if you don't earn quite as much XP per foe. The only time you miss out is if you allow a Target to be defeated ONLY by a confused foe -- you, your team and your pets do no damage at all. (But truthfully, with Seeds of Confusion and Roots, that's almost impossible.)

There are times that an Illusion or Mind Controller may confuse an individual foe and that foe may defeat a Target, but the overall effect of that is so minimal that it is insignificant. When you consider that the Confuse powers may be helping turn a foe's control power against other foes or that the Confuse power may be reducing damage taken by the team or may even be preventing a player from being defeated, the net effect is far better than not using Confuse powers. (It takes a lot longer to earn back the debt from a defeat than it would take to make up any reduction in XP!)

Plant Control is a great set, and it works well with Storm. By level 8, you get great AoE control that also does good damage, with the Seeds of Confusion followed by Roots combo -- Plant and Earth are the best low level AoE controllers, and Plant is probably second to Fire for AoE Damage. Seeds of Confusion+Roots+Snow Storm means that foes can't attack very often due to the -Recharge in Snow Storm, so they are effectively held and waiting for your team to wipe them out. Add Freezing Rain and you are doing a lot of damage with Roots. Hurricane can be used to bunch foes into tighter groups for your AoE controls. And Roots has the -Knockback to make Tornado more effective as a damage power. So does the Immob in Creepers.

For the situation you described of wanting to do damage as well as control, I would probably choose Plant/Storm as my first option. I personally love Ill/Storm, so I would go with that second. Fire/Storm is a late-blooming set, and I find it frustrating with the endurance issues. Fire/Storm also spends a lot of time in melee and tends to draw a lot of aggro -- if I play aggressively, I tend to faceplant a lot. On the other hand, the Flashfire+Fire Cages, run in with Hot Feet and hit Thunderclap is pretty nice synergy -- as long as you have enough endurance.

Ok, that made a LOT of sense to me. Thanks for the info. You might have just taken me over to the "Plant" side (hears crickets chirping)....but yeah thanks

Another vote for plant/storm. I've had a blast with my level 45 plant/storm troller and am currently looking forward to getting her to lvl 50+. You don't need to take the confuse power if you don't want it. There's enough damage mitigation and damage powers across both sets to compensate. Vines and Carrion Creepers followed by spamming Roots, and throwing in Freezing Rain, Tornados, and Lightning Storms as they become available makes you a wrecking machine. It can cause chaos too, but that's why it's so much fun.

I've had a grav/storm troller for a long time that I primarily soloed to 50. Always was a ton of fun, but felt kind of "meh" until recent issues started to open up the "post-50" game. One thing that used to me is that gravity immob does NOT have -kb, so locking a group down with your AoE immob only lasts until Singy or your tornado comes by to swat them around. It adds chaos, which is always fun, but it often annoys teammates who were setting up that PBAoE attack. It also takes away from the single target damage capability of tornado, since tornado doesn't do damage until it catches up with the rag doll again. Gravity and electricity control, IIRC, are the only two controller primaries that do NOT have -kb in their group immobs (illusion and mind don't have group immobs).

Fire/storm probably meets your stated needs best if you want to have a modicum of control over the chaos.

I've been working on a plant/storm that is around 25 (love it), and I'd like to try a fire/ storm at some point.

Add me on the Plant/Storm bandwagon. I couldn't even play controllers... just couldn't get into them... until I rolled up my Plant/Stormie, and he quickly became my second main. It's cheerfully overpowered pretty much from level 8 onwards

And if you want damage... hoo boy. Plant/Storm... especially once you add a hefty dose of +Recharge... basically eats spawns. I run him on +8/x0 just so there's at least a little bit of a challenge. A little bit. As in 'oops, aggroed three +8 spawns simultaneously, maybe I should eat a purple... eh.'

At least with my build, harder targets are the plant/stormy's achilles heel- three or more bosses in a spawn and I have problems, and I don't think I'll be soloing AVs anytime soon (probably- with the fancy new Incarnate powers, I'm not so sure anymore >.>). Then again, Hurricane debuffs accuracy so heavily that if you're willing to put up with the Repel (nothing much you can do other than Herdicane them into a wall if you want to keep them bunched- even the -KB in Roots doesn't help with Repel :/), it's amazing what you can handle.

My plant/storm is by far my favorite toon. Much more flexible than a fire/kin as to the kinds of mobs you can solo and very useful on teams. (although I wish more people would realize that - kins and rads are all people seem to want on teams )

Not the best farming character in the world, although I could kick myself for completing the Axis World mission.... great farm map for a Plant troller.

I also strongly recommend plant/storm. The trip to 50 was the faster and more fun than for any of the other characters, and she became the first character I really wanted to continue playing post-50.

Seeds of Confusion is my every-spawn opener. I think of it as an active defense power that diverts the alpha strike of the bad guys. I get close with Steamy Mist, toss SoC, Freezing Rain, Creepers (if recharged), then I spam roots and fissure until the spawn is dead. If the spawn has bosses or higher, I'll toss Lightning Storm and/or Tornado into the mix.

Now that any myths about how "confuse" works have been cleared up (Local is a very patient person with regards to this matter). Another +1 for Plant/Storm. Its beastly with the right build and right skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZLightning You don't need to take the confuse power if you don't want it.

Not something I would recommend...at all.

Emphasis on why here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local_Man Certainly anyone can choose to take a power or not, but not taking Seeds of Confusion on a Plant Controller would be a HUGE mistake in my opinion . . . and I bet in the opinion of the huge majority of folks who have played Plant Control either as a Controller or Dominator. Plant Control is built around Seeds of Confusion and relies upon it heavily.

In fact if you take any powers at all from Plant/ on a Plant/Storm I recommend taking Roots, Seeds of Confusion, and Carrion Creepers at the minimum.

People really need to stop fixating on xp lost. Confuse is a form of control.... and control is just another source of damage mitigation. They aren't attacking you or you're friends. The loss of xp only comes when you allow them to do more work than you. If you hold an enemy you don't wait for the hold to be over before you start attacking. You hold then pounce. Same goes for seeds. Seeds, immob, creepers, aoe's or reapply immobs for damage until dead.

It's simply just another form of aoe control.

Seeds is a must on Plant (also Synaptic Overload on Elec). Was the standard opener on my Plant dom.

I have a Grav/Storm that I mostly soloed, and I'll agree that it is very nice solo but maybe not the best teamed (not bad, but not fantastic). Plant/Storm...I'd never thought about it before, but it intrigues me.