Are they gonna raise the level cap
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2011-04-08 20:13 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Supposedly, future Incarnate content will feature NPCs with level shifts.
I think you'll find the Coming Storm will be quite tough 
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Probably 4-5 months away unless they do an Issue 20.5 release.
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Originally Posted by Vanden
for mobs? I got my 3 level shifts and level 54s are feeling pretty trivial.
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The problem with starting to give enemies level shifts is that progression becomes gated behind rare Incarnate powers. I'm pretty sure the theory, at least, is that rares aren't supposed to be a "necessary" thing.
Mind you, my faith in this system is low enough, though, that at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if the Devs did it anyway.
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Indeed. At that point, it will seem like they should have just increased the PC level cap in a more typical fashion rather than making players jump through odd construction hoops to get to what is essentially a higher level.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
The problem with starting to give enemies level shifts is that progression becomes gated behind rare Incarnate powers. I'm pretty sure the theory, at least, is that rares aren't supposed to be a "necessary" thing.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Except it may not, if you consider that they didn't want to mechanically trivialize the legacy TF's and game (the stuff hte incarnate shifts don't work against.)
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Indeed. At that point, it will seem like they should have just increased the PC level cap in a more typical fashion rather than making players jump through odd construction hoops to get to what is essentially a higher level.
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The stuff that, if you were simply a higher level you'd lose the benefits of being higher level for by exemping down anyway?
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
Except it may not, if you consider that they didn't want to mechanically trivialize the legacy TF's and game (the stuff hte incarnate shifts don't work against.)
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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I don't really see the need to raise the level cap in general though. There's no zone to support it, it would require a lot more content than what they're adding, and there would be a lot less attention all the other parts of the game. |
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
The stuff that, if you were simply a higher level you'd lose the benefits of being higher level for by exemping down anyway?
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Arbitrarily raising the level cap might work for some games, but I doubt it would work for this one. The way they've done it they have added progression but not trivialized things like the Story Arcs from 45 - 50, the zones that have level 50+ enemies in them (Grandville, the Hive, PI, RWZ, Cimerora) and they would be trivialized on the first or second day because likely people would run AE into the ground, and they would have to because as it stands right now there isn't enough content to support it.
The way it is now there's progression with powerful abilities, but very little "leveling" and the bulk of those only exist in certain content. It's a lot easier to balance around and it provides a great deal of incentive to not abandon the rest of the game that isn't incarnate content. If ti had been just a simple max level, then we wouldn't likely have the new 20 - 40 TF's because the entire dev team would still be trying to hammer out new content.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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I've been on pre-Alpha teams that have steamrolled +4 content. The only reason we didn't go after even higher enemies is we couldn't find a reliable supply of them.|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
The problem with starting to give enemies level shifts is that progression becomes gated behind rare Incarnate powers. I'm pretty sure the theory, at least, is that rares aren't supposed to be a "necessary" thing.
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Level shifts may make high-level content easier, but they're hardly essential.
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That's all true enough now, but the point is that if they keep adding content of a boosted/level-shifted variety to challenge Incarnates it ultimately won't be true. And at that point it will be just as if they *had* upped the level cap. Catfish?
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
I don't really see the need to raise the level cap in general though. There's no zone to support it, it would require a lot more content than what they're adding, and there would be a lot less attention all the other parts of the game.
Arbitrarily raising the level cap might work for some games, but I doubt it would work for this one. The way they've done it they have added progression but not trivialized things like the Story Arcs from 45 - 50, the zones that have level 50+ enemies in them (Grandville, the Hive, PI, RWZ, Cimerora) and they would be trivialized on the first or second day because likely people would run AE into the ground, and they would have to because as it stands right now there isn't enough content to support it. The way it is now there's progression with powerful abilities, but very little "leveling" and the bulk of those only exist in certain content. It's a lot easier to balance around and it provides a great deal of incentive to not abandon the rest of the game that isn't incarnate content. If ti had been just a simple max level, then we wouldn't likely have the new 20 - 40 TF's because the entire dev team would still be trying to hammer out new content. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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This. And so long as existing Incarnate content isn't level shifted, then progress won't be gated behind Rare Incarnate Powers as the L54 non-Level Shifted Trials will still be there for people to progress using (and have the benefit of L50+3 characters to aid them).|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Supposedly, future Incarnate content will feature NPCs with level shifts.
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Now, for the Final Five Incarnate Powers, then I agree that it shouldn't be gated so simply allow two of the new Trials for that "sector" to not be Level Shifted more than L54+1 (hence straight L54 for anyone with a Rare Alpha - an easy enough task using the WST).
That'd be good in my book for me and my alts.
There'll be anti-shifts, were 1, 2, 3 or more of your level shifts become nullified (and thus make you acquire 4, 5, and 6, which are only active if 1, 2 or 3 get nullified), etc...
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If they turn and raise the level cap for future content, then the incarnate raids have become mandatory, and no longer optional, like everyone keeps saying they are.
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Originally Posted by Vanden
for mobs? I got my 3 level shifts and level 54s are feeling pretty trivial.
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2 of your 3 levels shifts only affect 2 trials. So no
No, and no, and once more.....for the record....no
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How so? They could just as easily have you get those next levels by repeating the same two trials. There is nothing that intrinsically ties leveling up to running a variety of content, otherwise nobody would have ever reached 50 without ever having fought anything but the Dreck mission or Fire Ambush Farm #234298.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
I don't really see the need to raise the level cap in general though. There's no zone to support it, it would require a lot more content than what they're adding, and there would be a lot less attention all the other parts of the game.
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Originally Posted by Vox Populi
"Congratulations, Vanden! You've hit level 50+3! Now what are you going to do?"
"I'm going to... complain on the forums!" |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Aren't you already complaining that the only reasonable way to get the incarnate powers is to spam the trials? We're actually getting more there than just a level up - we're getting 2 "levels" and three powers, and 1 extra proc slot. That would take FAR longer to obtain if we were just "leveling up".
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
How so? They could just as easily have you get those next levels by repeating the same two trials. There is nothing that intrinsically ties leveling up to running a variety of content, otherwise nobody would have ever reached 50 without ever having fought anything but the Dreck mission or Fire Ambush Farm #234298.
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"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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Actually, I'm fairly sure this is exactly how it's supposed to work.|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
The problem with starting to give enemies level shifts is that progression becomes gated behind rare Incarnate powers. I'm pretty sure the theory, at least, is that rares aren't supposed to be a "necessary" thing.
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Now, I can see this perhaps being a problem in regular content, because it would be pretty incompatible with the way SSK works. However, inside Incarnate specific content, which is level gated at 50 anyway, it only separates people who have different degrees of level shift. I'm not immediately concerned about that prospect.
For those of you considering Incarnate stuff "optional," I don't think that means what it sounds like you think it means. I don't think there's any promise on the table that you aren't going to need some existing Incarnate progress to be useful (if granted access at all) for future Incarnate content. It's "optional" in the sense that other, non-Incarnate content exists and will continue to be created, but I don't think it's safe to assume it will be optional internal to the Incarnate content itself.
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This seems to be the direction the devs are taking. You have to think of the endgame system as a completely separate game, one designed to appeal to people who thrive on getting special loot to complete special encounters to get special loot to complete special encounters ... etc. It's very different from the regular system and is meant to capture a different player market. The "optional" nature of the content means that you don't have to do endgame trials if you're not interested in the endgame system, not that you don't need the rewards from that system to complete the trials effectively. Having run a few now, it seems pretty obvious to me that the trials were designed with the application of their own rewards in mind.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
For those of you considering Incarnate stuff "optional," I don't think that means what it sounds like you think it means. I don't think there's any promise on the table that you aren't going to need some existing Incarnate progress to be useful (if granted access at all) for future Incarnate content. It's "optional" in the sense that other, non-Incarnate content exists and will continue to be created, but I don't think it's safe to assume it will be optional internal to the Incarnate content itself.
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And that's precisely why I'd have preferred a classic level cap raise over this. Because then you can't get away with two Trials and call it a day. You'd need new zones, new enemies, new missions and TFs and a lot more content. Too much to be worth the cost of investment? Most probably, but I feel a good game requires a certain minimum level of content at all places.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
I don't really see the need to raise the level cap in general though. There's no zone to support it, it would require a lot more content than what they're adding, and there would be a lot less attention all the other parts of the game.
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That, and going with extra levels would have stopped the pedantic arguments that "You are not level 51! You are level 50 + 1!"
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yes, I am. Now if we were actually getting levels by spamming the trials, I'm sure a lot more people would be complaining. Even though real levels aren't intrinsically tied to having a new zone with a variety of contacts and enemy groups and a bunch of arcs and a few TFs any more than fake levels are intrinsically tied to repeating trials.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
Aren't you already complaining that the only reasonable way to get the incarnate powers is to spam the trials?
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
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I'm not complaining, I like taking on groups meant for 2 or 3 full teams and winning. But they need something more than level 54 enemies to challenge people as strong as that.
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Originally Posted by Vox Populi
"Congratulations, Vanden! You've hit level 50+3! Now what are you going to do?"
"I'm going to... complain on the forums!" |
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
The problem is, for as long as I can remember, the Devs have always given the reason that they haven't raised the level cap to 60 is that the game engine won't handle it. Things start breaking down past a certain level, or something along those lines.
for mobs? I got my 3 level shifts and level 54s are feeling pretty trivial.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.