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No, this is what people don't get. With over 100,000 people playing, you can be absolutely certain that some people are going to get results that seem like they can't be random. Someone will get common, uncommon, rare, very rare in order and have it repeat again. Someone will get the same result 10 in a row. That's how random works. It's not random for each person. It can't be (unless they do the same thing 4,000 times in a row and keep a tally). It's random in aggregate.
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Originally Posted by Pockets
It was two different scrappers of mine, for a chain of lesse...around nine rares at least. The odds of that in a truly random system are very minimal.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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That would be all good and fine, except, as they say here...|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
No, this is what people don't get. With over 100,000 people playing, you can be absolutely certain that some people are going to get results that seem like they can't be random. Someone will get common, uncommon, rare, very rare in order and have it repeat again. Someone will get the same result 10 in a row. That's how random works. It's not random for each person. It can't be (unless they do the same thing 4,000 times in a row and keep a tally). It's random in aggregate.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=258308
...the system rewards "participation".
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And I think it's a bad move. Some say it seems the more targets you affect, the better the reward.|
Originally Posted by Pockets
...the system rewards "participation".
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Like I said in another thread, when I park my tank at a door during Escape phase and just fire my AoE off and then park near the Adds spawn point and fire my AoE, I get good rewards.
But when I use my "Commando" target macro and hunt escaping lieuts during the Escape phase and then ignore the adds spawn point and focus on the AV's (to the extent that I get several "GATE-keeper, Second Warning" warnings, I get the Ten Threads of Failitude.
Imho, the first example (where I get better rewards), I am less useful to the league as a whole that I am in the second example (where I get poorer rewards).
Something wrong with that...
"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy
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Indeed. As a /traps Corr I get better rewards for not using my secondary.
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Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
And I think it's a bad move. Some say it seems the more targets you affect, the better the reward.
Like I said in another thread, when I park my tank at a door during Escape phase and just fire my AoE off and then park near the Adds spawn point and fire my AoE, I get good rewards. But when I use my "Commando" target macro and hunt escaping lieuts during the Escape phase and then ignore the adds spawn point and focus on the AV's (to the extent that I get several "GATE-keeper, Second Warning" warnings, I get the Ten Threads of Failitude. Imho, the first example (where I get better rewards), I am less useful to the league as a whole that I am in the second example (where I get poorer rewards). Something wrong with that... |
Like all such systems, it will have the heck gamed out of it, even if what people are doing to game the system is to the detriment of the league as a whole. Then it will be tweaked and adjusted, and have the heck gamed out it in a whole new way. I can't imagine that whatever hypothetical benefit can be gained from discouraging leeching will be worth the aggravation to the devs and players.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Did you conveniently overlook this part: "While there is an element of randomness"|
Originally Posted by Pockets
That would be all good and fine, except, as they say here...
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=258308 ...the system rewards "participation". |
If there is ANY random factor (and THERE IS), then one person can't tell squat from a limited number of runs.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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There is randomness, but not nearly enough.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Did you conveniently overlook this part: "While there is an element of randomness"
If there is ANY random factor (and THERE IS), then one person can't tell squat from a limited number of runs. |
I have done a ridiculous number of trials on my DP/Traps, and all I get is uncommons. I only get rares if I'm willing to not support my team at all and try and hog the spawns and manage to beat the the damage dealers to them. I have 24 absolutely useless uncommons in my inventory because I'm certainly not going to blow hundreds of millions of inf I can't afford to throw away, and don't have, to convert them.
It will take me two months, assuming I grind trials every day, to get my V rares. My friend announced last night that she got V rares in every slot on her super widow build. That took her a whole 13 days.
My scrapper keeps getting good rolls, my corr keeps getting poor ones, every day. Thtas not random.
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If they're so "absolutely useless," deconvert them into Threads. There's no cost associated with that, and you'll net 8-10 Threads per Uncommon deconverted.
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Originally Posted by Pockets
I have 24 absolutely useless uncommons in my inventory because I'm certainly not going to blow hundreds of millions of inf I can't afford to throw away, and don't have, to convert them.
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Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
http://legionofvalor.guildportal.com / http://fallenlegion.guildportal.com
StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here
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Only those threads are useless too, as I don't need commons either. I need rares and V rares, and thats it.
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Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
If they're so "absolutely useless," deconvert them into Threads. There's no cost associated with that, and you'll net 8-10 Threads per Uncommon deconverted.
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Then horde your uncommons, and grind threads and inf to turn them into rares and very rares... It'll cost you a bit of inf, but if you really want it, isn't it worth it?
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No. As much as I'd love to have just one character, my main, have V rares in each slot, its not worth the, lets see.|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Then horde your uncommons, and grind threads and inf to turn them into rares and very rares... It'll cost you a bit of inf, but if you really want it, isn't it worth it?
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100 mil for each rare, 4 rares per V rare, that what, 1.6 billion?
400 mil per V rare, need 4 of those. Thats another 1.2 billion?
Are you seriously suggesting I grind up 2.8 billion inf that could be spent on far more useful things? Mind you, I don't have a farming character, nor do I find farming enjoyable in any way, I already have a job.
Would you spend 400m to equip a character with the best IOs they could get short of purples?
Why is it not OK to do the same for Rare Incarnate powers?
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Because anyone who wants those purples has to either farm them up or spend that inf. Everyone has to expend the same effort.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Would you spend 400m to equip a character with the best IOs they could get short of purples?
Why is it not OK to do the same for Rare Incarnate powers? |
You can't say same the same about trial rewards right now. Some characters simply can't do whatever is needed to rank V rares, especially with sets like traps not counting as credit at all, as they are pets.
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That "randomness" is why my Fire blaster gets an uncommon 1 in 5, and the other 4 are rares and very rares and my Son defender gets 3 commons and 2 uncommons for the same # of runs. Similar patterns for my other toons over close to 100 runs (maybe over by now). Yeah, yeah, one person, small sample, yada, yada. How many runs before it's statistically significant then?
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Did you conveniently overlook this part: "While there is an element of randomness"
If there is ANY random factor (and THERE IS), then one person can't tell squat from a limited number of runs. |
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Its so random there is no way to tell, I got a chance to run BAF 4 times last night with my brute who is aplha slotted, he was in the middle of everything and got only uncommon. Ran it once with my blaster who is not alpha slotted and he was offered Very Rare for not doing much of anything seeing he couldnt hit often.
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Every bit of statistical data ever gathered on this planet was from a limited number of trials - no one has infinite time and resources. Your statement is dumb.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Did you conveniently overlook this part: "While there is an element of randomness"
If there is ANY random factor (and THERE IS), then one person can't tell squat from a limited number of runs. |
The first few days I got a couple very rares. Now, nothing but common and uncommon. I run a softcap Tank, and I actually try to Tank. My Tank is not a Scranker, he tanks, period. I also am trying to get incarnate abilities that debuff my enemies damage, and buff my teams defense. Yes, tanking harder. But, I cannot seem to get anywhere in the trials. I ran trials for 15 hours Sunday. I only received commons, uncommons, and once the table with either 10 threads or the inspiration! I am the main tank on almost every run I do. I did a master of Lambda attempt last night with 3 other tanks in the League, I was chosen to tank Marauder. We completed the mish, failed the Master (not enough debuffs), I got an uncommon.
You know, I think this whole thing is slightly.....uncommon.
Ran my first Lambda last night on my defender. Someone mentioned the random rare drops. Keep in mind I have played for 6 years, have 15- 50s and a multitude of other levels. I have gotten TWO purple recipe drops (and just so happened to be on my scrappers) So random drops to me, mean, so not worth the time or debt.
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Your statement is disingenuous. I said ONE PERSON can't tell anything from a limited number of trials. You would need to compile data from multiple players.
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Originally Posted by rsclark
Every bit of statistical data ever gathered on this planet was from a limited number of trials - no one has infinite time and resources. Your statement is dumb.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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No, actually you wouldn't. You just need enough trials. If anything, data from one player would be more reliable, as it would be more likely to remove the element of player skill.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Your statement is disingenuous. I said ONE PERSON can't tell anything from a limited number of trials. You would need to compile data from multiple players.
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Nah. If you're teamed with nimrods you're going to spend time in the hospital and that's going to kill your participation.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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This just cracked me up first thing in the morning...|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
You know, I think this whole thing is slightly.....uncommon.
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I have been running my Ice/Kin for both since exclusively and I am getting stuff all over the place even the threads only table twice in a row... a first i thought it was a joke.
I dont do anything different, I start the TF by SB and many people as I can for the whole league... the I go in and ice up whatever bad guy is around, then I throw out Heals and FS and siphon speed etc all over the place.
To me its very random...
"Participation" definitely is counted and damage dealt is a significant part of it.
My brute, who is a beast on taking and dishing damage, has run 101 trials and received 1 Very Rare, 49 Rares, 48 Uncommon, 2 Common, and 1 dud table (lambda, I was dead a lot, and I took a phone call).
My bane who dishes single target damage and debuffs has done 11 trials and received 1 rare, 5 uncommons, 5 commons
My tanker who actually pulls and tanks the AVs has done 15 trials and received 1 Very Rare, 5 uncommons, 9 commons
My debuffer who is equally useful to the team but dishes less direct damage has done 24 trials and received 8 uncommons, 16 commons.
My sonic buffer/debuffer who is VERY VERY useful has done 11 trials and received 3 uncommon, 7 common, 1 dud (and I didn't even slack that time 
).
My blaster who is tier 4 musculature in alpha has done 3 runs and received........3 rares!
Don't tell me its random or fair as designed. I am not good as a blaster compared to how well I play my melee toons and even my buff/debuffers and yet I am apparently likely to receive a rare if I blast. I can do a more thorough experiment where I "control" my damage and see how it works too...but it seems to me atm that AoE damage uber alles is what determines who gets the VR and R stuff.
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You could ask on the Market & Invention forums. They have a project where they've been destroying hundreds of billions of Inf by buying up Prestige across various servers. I'm sure they can spare a few billion if you promise to take it out of the game by buying up components.
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Originally Posted by Pockets
No. As much as I'd love to have just one character, my main, have V rares in each slot, its not worth the, lets see.
100 mil for each rare, 4 rares per V rare, that what, 1.6 billion? 400 mil per V rare, need 4 of those. Thats another 1.2 billion? Are you seriously suggesting I grind up 2.8 billion inf that could be spent on far more useful things? Mind you, I don't have a farming character, nor do I find farming enjoyable in any way, I already have a job. |
Character index
When I played my Stormy, I laid out very quickly my targeted AOE attacks, and rewards came my way if I was first, second was pointless...
I am not sure, if this is a real thing or merely coincidence. From playing with other folks, I have seen a definite bias towards the heavy damage dealers as well. But again it may be coincidence?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.