Being a proper leader?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

When leading an ITF, I usually try to let people know beforehand what the strategy is.
Examples:
- This is a speed itf. ( usually when advertising, so no one is surprised )
- Next mission, CPU first; Next mission, kill towers to 120, then we hit Rom, etc.
- Occasionally, I'll get a team where it's obvious most of the players have never done an ITF. I'll have to supplement that with "please follow me" or "my target please."
- An occasional compliment never hurts. "Nice Job" or "gj" at the end of a mission keeps morale up.
- Pay attention to the capabilities of your team. If multiple people die in the first mission of an ITF, they're probably not going to be able to handle an AV pull while killing the CPU or a Rom pull while clearing the courtyard.
- I tend not to lead teams when playing a squishy. Seeing the leader die doesnt do much for team confidence.


We probably need another post on how to be a proper follower, but thats another thread.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViKtoricus View Post
I guess it's my turn to share.

From experience, I learned that:



- People generally are susceptible to being ordered around... I know this sounds a little bossy on my part, but I noticed that good leaders usually know how to balance their authority and friendliness.

- People tend to get scatter-brained when no one is in charge. A part of the leader's job is to keep people on the same page.

- A leader lets his teammates shine in their own ways. If your teammate is a tank, let him be a tank and don't do the tanking yourself if you're the healer.

- A leader is a good communicator and sends clear and concise messages to his teammates.
I think you are still misinterpreting the team leader role.

A "team leader" is really a "team organizer". If you have decent knowledge of the game and understand the mission you're running, you'll have little trouble keeping a group on the same page (assuming you don't have any griefers in the mix). All that is usually needed are a few well-placed reminders and possibly some directions, here and there.

Anyone who sees having the star as an opportunity to be "the boss" really needs to grow up a little.


 

Posted

I'm going to step outside of the 'how to' section into the 'should you' section.

Should you be the leader? Does the star mean you have to lead? Does the team need a leader?

In my experience, no one on a team leads. I've very rarely had a person with a star tell me what to do. Most of the time, the team finds a groove without direction from any one person.

There are exceptions to this.

1. New Players - Sometimes a team member will add advice for new players.
2. Bad Players - Basically, me. Running off and doing my own thing. Happens occasionally.
3. Speed runs and complex TF strategy - Where coordination is key.
4. When players ask.

You don't need to be an active, vocal leader when players know their roles. That includes YOU. If you don't know how an AT works, don't tell them how to play.

If no one is dying, and the missions are getting done, go with the flow.

If there are multiple team wipes... discuss, don't demand.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViKtoricus View Post
I guess it's my turn to share.

From experience, I learned that:

- People generally are susceptible to being ordered around... I know this sounds a little bossy on my part, but I noticed that good leaders usually know how to balance their authority and friendliness.

- People tend to get scatter-brained when no one is in charge. A part of the leader's job is to keep people on the same page.
OK, seriously, what game did you come from that you needed to do all of this?

COH isn't that hard and as been said before, "normal" MMO strategies don't often apply. If you've played for a while, you'll figure out the game mechanics pretty easily. "Repetitive" is how the detractors usually describe it before rage quitting.

In addition, informal forum surveys have shown that our player base (at least those who visit the forums) is on the mature end of the age demographic (30+). Most can think for themselves and if they've played the game for any length in time, they know what they can do, along with what they're supposed to do. Ditto for their expectations for what others can and are supposed to do.

Yes, there are some people who play poorly, but it could be due to a myriad of reasons: new player, someone who's a young kid, a parent who's distracted with their kids, someone with a physical disability, etc. Of these examples, you only need to give instructions to the new player and only if they make it obvious that they're lost or confused. You can give them a briefing via PM prior to starting up if you're really concerned. But really, the game is easy enough that if they just went with the flow and not cause too many accidental aggro, they'd do ok.

The only additional aside I have about your post is this:
Quote:
- A leader lets his teammates shine in their own ways. If your teammate is a tank, let him be a tank and don't do the tanking yourself if you're the healer.
Some players pickup up the Tank archetype just "to be Superman". I find these to be typically young players. They do not know how to "tank" for a team. You will recognize them as being rather timid when approaching large groups of enemies. I'm assuming you're not willing to harass them about it. And if there isn't another player willing to pick up the tanking duties, then you, as the team leader, must step up to tank with whatever archetype you're playing. This is along the lines of keeping the team moving forward. Sometimes you can't know what you've gotten for team mates until the mission starts, which is particularly bad when you've just started a Task Force. If you have played the game enough, in particular, have had the opportunity to observe veteran players take up the point to pave the path for the team, you will know how to manage this. Of course, it gets easier (ie more survivable) the higher level the level your character is due to additional powers.


Teams are the number one killer of soloists.

 

Posted

Unless you're leading a TF/SF, and especially if you're going for a Master of... badge, you really don't need to do much "leading" in this game.

If you are leading a TF/SF, read the wiki and know what to expect. The only ones I can really think of that need any kind of "strategy" are STF, LRSF, and Baraccuda.

If you're planning to lead a Master of... SF/TF, let the players know ahead of time, and know what it takes to achieve the goal.

I joined a Master of Tin Mage TF this weekend that was advertised ahead of time to be a Master of... run, but apparently I was the only one who read the strategy on how to get the Dodger badge, and therefore the only one who bothered to get nukes or an HVAS. When I tried to explain the strategy to the leader, his response was, "OK everyone, on three. 1... 2... 3..." and everyone rushed into the warehouse while I was summoning my HVAS and preparing my nukes. Needless to say, we didn't even come close to getting the Dodger badge, and I wasted three nukes and 250 vanguard merits. I very nearly quit the TF then, but I stuck around until I had to leave for RL matters because it was my fault they were late getting started. I would team with those folks again, but I strongly doubt I'd consider joining a Master of... run with that leader in the future.


(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon

 

Posted

My 4 biggest pet peevees I have when teaming.

1. People who stereotype an AT.(Stalkers, MMs, Scrappers, Khelds, etc)

2. People who don't know the basics of all ATs and Powersets. I do mean the basics, I don't expect anyone to be a Knowledge Base of the game.

3. Someone who constantly insists we need an AT or Powerset. Tanks and Healers are nice but not required.

4. Aura Rockers. I prefer the people to contribute to the fight over someone who constantly spams their Healing Aura and nothing else.


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Posted

So ...

I've been around a long time and have a baseline knowledge of most of the game's sets. That's a big help when putting together a team 'n' figuring a strategy if the team isn't steamrolling. First tip: roll a bunch of toons, and get a feel for different sets and ATs.

(De)buffers make the game more pleasant in every possible way. Invite as many (de)buffers as you can find (Defenders, Controllers, Corruptors, MMs, and, to a certain extent, VEATs). Pass over anyone advertising himself as a healer (no, seriously, you'll often end up with someone who thinks that auto-firing a heal is a serious contribution).

Second tip: If you've got a handful of (de)buffers, start inviting everyone else, regardless of AT (I have a soft spot for inviting stalkers). You'll be good to go for most of the game's content.

Third tip: once you have a better idea of how the game works and the various sets and ATs work together, then you start going for optimal teams. I.e., if all you can find is a bunch of blasters, look hard for any FF defender you can find over L22.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
[*]A team has more than one person - the more, the better.
You need to keep the team 'team-sized'. You don't have to have 8 people but, if you drop below 5 or 6, you need to find more.
I'm not sure I can agree with that. Personally, I prefer smaller teams, ideally of no more than four people. Anything more than that and it stops being a social and personal environment and turns into group think, which I don't like. With myself and at most three other people, I can consistently remember everyone's name, everyone's conduct and personality and everyone's appearance and power. And four people don't quite give enough of an audience for people to start feeling like they can act stupid in front of a crowd.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I'm not sure I can agree with that. Personally, I prefer smaller teams, ideally of no more than four people. Anything more than that and it stops being a social and personal environment and turns into group think, which I don't like. With myself and at most three other people, I can consistently remember everyone's name, everyone's conduct and personality and everyone's appearance and power. And four people don't quite give enough of an audience for people to start feeling like they can act stupid in front of a crowd.
I agree with everything you said!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViKtoricus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I'm not sure I can agree with that. Personally, I prefer smaller teams, ideally of no more than four people. Anything more than that and it stops being a social and personal environment and turns into group think, which I don't like. With myself and at most three other people, I can consistently remember everyone's name, everyone's conduct and personality and everyone's appearance and power. And four people don't quite give enough of an audience for people to start feeling like they can act stupid in front of a crowd.
I agree with everything you said!
A smaller team also often means that very minimal "leadership" is required, if any. Unless you run into an exceptionally difficult situation, the most "leading" a small team needs might be, "Let's go this way..."
*bamf*
*pow*
*freeeeemmm*

.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViKtoricus View Post
This is something a want to tackle on. How can you be a firm, decisive team leader without being bossy?

It's like a hit and miss for me right now.

Thanks in advance.
Some things: don't boast or think too highly of yourself in team chat no matter how well things are going. People tend to gravitate towards someone who is a bit self-deprecating and certainly someone who is humble and thanks his or her teammates for their assistance.

Also: if you have to issue commands, try to do it without caps or without NOW being thrown about. Remember this is a game and people tend to get turned away from leaders who try to make it seem like work.

Before you start, try to look over your team (if you don't know the players) or issue commands based on players you are familiar with's strengths. If I know the regen scrapper I always team with can handle aggro better than the fire tank I randomly picked up because he was standing in front of Tin Mage, I tend to follow her after the alpha shots and keep her buffered better.

If you are doing a Task Force or a mission you've done before and have a specific way you've done it that you know you're comfortable with and will lead to less death, by all means speak up about it before you start. Tin Mage I will use as an example again: When it was the WTF the other week, the first 2-3 times I led one we noticed a lot of people dying because we were only killing the WarWalkers and leaving the rest of their mob, which were still aggro'd and firing on squishies. So from that point forward I started each Tin Mage by saying "Please kill entire WarWalker mobs before moving to next one." I never had an issue with people not following that.

While teaming, try to keep the conversation fun and casual. I team with a lot of people who like to randomly quote song lyrics, so if we hit a tense spot I usually try to chime in and start doing that to relax people and myself. If you have a new player you never teamed with before on your team, make that player feel welcome and see if you might have a new global friend out of it.


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Posted

/em pokes Taser

I've seen you break your "don't boast" rule ... ummm ... frequently. If not constantly. And generally fatally

It always added to the fun, light-hearted mood you were going for to watch you consistently faceplant.

Good times!

I think the undertone of what you're saying boils down to, "It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. Don't take it, or yourself, too seriously. Sometimes, ensuring everyone has a good, non-stressful time means regrouping and talking things over."

Or making references to <shiver> The Pet Shop Boys.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by firespray View Post
In fact, I would probably start to resent it if the leader were constantly giving out instructions and telling everyone what to do. The only situations in which I find that acceptable are if you've signed up for something that needs done in specific way. A task force or raid for example.
This is one extreme. The other is a team where no one leads at all. Both those extremes are bad.

Also If you're leading a team be sure to keep the momentum going. Do not, for example, go off to train and expect your teamates to stand around waiting for you. If you level after the first couple of missions and your enhancements just turned red you picked a really bad time to start up a team.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViKtoricus View Post
This is something a want to tackle on. How can you be a firm, decisive team leader without being bossy?

It's like a hit and miss for me right now.

Thanks in advance.
failure is always an option. I think taking "leadership" far less seriously might be the most important thing you can do.

Try just teaming for a bit on many different types of toon, rather than building teams. Try soloing on many different types of toon.

The game isn't so tricky that most people with any amount of time in game can form a competent team that doesn't need to be led.

Play the two most different toons you can imagine to 50 asap...PLAY, not PL.

Join whatever TF/SF/Trial/Badge channel exists on your main server, and join teams that form there. (or, roll a toon on Justice, if you can't find your server's channels)

#1 most important leadership issue in the game: it's a game. people play it to have fun; however, "fun" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Don't take things too seriously, but don't be a dick, and don't allow/abide the dickery of others. That is to say, play nice.


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Posted

Nice thead, Vik.

There's a lot of insightful advice in this thread; taken to heart, these points can really improve teaming experiences from hesitant or uncertain team leaders. Most people are afraid of failing a task and being blamed for a poor outcome; whether it's a TF fail, a team wipe or just a hiccup, people don't want that responsibility on their shoulders. As the leader, you need to willingly take that on when it happens (it will, at some point - it's what keeps the game interesting still) and then just as quickly get things moving again.

Like in real life, leading is about communicating a goal to your partners and stepping in when it's needed. To that end, let the team know beforehand what you're going to be doing, as well as any trouble spots you anticipate - and ways around them. I run "bring whatever you want, flip out and enjoy" TFs, and was running a Tin Mage the other day with 2 Khelds, no brutes, tanks or defensive buffs; the Khelds were asked to pop into Dwarf and play aggro champions, despite one being more used to playing in Nova. It was a blast, and the few KOs we had were from just goofing around - which is a sign of a fun team.

Some basic knowledge of what you're going up against is important to have, in order to effectively communicate if things sour. Carrying along envenomed daggers, nukes, shivans, etc., for the common -regen light team is a wise course of action. The more you can do to carry the burden without the rest of the team knowing, the more fun the team's likely to have.


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