(another) Incarnate Plot-hole (Spoiler-ish)
After I did a Tin Mage TF on Monday, I punched some Hellion muggers in Atlas Park.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Despite all the conflicting canon, the book explains it the most completely.
Ok, we were told that Statesman and Lord Recluse were incarnates who, unlike us, drank from the well too completely and gained their power too fast. This idea seems to fall apart from watching our very own intro video. Clearly, Statesman started out punching gangsters and over time grew powerful enough to drop a Rikti mothership out of the sky. This was the basis for our character having levels so that we too could become more powerful over time. Now if there is some variable I missed, I would love to know what it is, but as it stands, this seems to be a glaring omission.
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The fact that he took on organized crime in Paragon City in the 20s has no bearing on the fact that the Rikti didn't attack until the 00s.
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Defeating him in one-shot (read: Crushing every bone in his body and leaving him in critical condition)
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
You fight the criminals in front of you, regardless of your power level - just because Statesman could solo a Rikti mothership, that doesn't mean he wouldn't bother to stop a bank robery too.
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I knocked him out, and he was taken to the Zig
Defeating him in one-shot (read: Crushing every bone in his body and leaving him in critical condition)
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I think your looking at it the other-way-round. Why wouldn't he simply eliminate all the crime in the city in a single day, if he was as powerful then as he is now? Why not simply end WWII single handedly?
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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He's tried that in another universe - it didn't work out too well
I think your looking at it the other-way-round. Why wouldn't he simply eliminate all the crime in the city in a single day, if he was as powerful then as he is now?
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Why not simply end WWII single handedly? |
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Actually, It worked all too well. That's why we have an Issue 20 to deal with.
He's tried that in another universe - it didn't work out too well
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Now THEY didn't work out too well.
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"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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To borrow one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite superheroes:
Ok, we were told that Statesman and Lord Recluse were incarnates who, unlike us, drank from the well too completely and gained their power too fast. This idea seems to fall apart from watching our very own intro video. Clearly, Statesman started out punching gangsters and over time grew powerful enough to drop a Rikti mothership out of the sky. This was the basis for our character having levels so that we too could become more powerful over time. Now if there is some variable I missed, I would love to know what it is, but as it stands, this seems to be a glaring omission.
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"Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of... cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."
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So all these years States has been pacing himself until someone was powerful enough to stand against him?
To borrow one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite superheroes:
"Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of... cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am." |
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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How exactly does "powerful enough to body slam a Rikti Mother ship" equal "powerful enought to stop all the crime in a city?" He can only be in one place at a time and not all crime can be stopped by punching it in the face.
I think your looking at it the other-way-round. Why wouldn't he simply eliminate all the crime in the city in a single day, if he was as powerful then as he is now? Why not simply end WWII single handedly?
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Also, gaining power too fast isn't the same thing as gaining it instantaneously nor does it eliminate the possibility that their power continued to grow for some unknown time before the well asserted its self.
Someone besides Recluse, of course. They cancel each other out.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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...and then he proceeded to lose the fight.
To borrow one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite superheroes: |
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"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Flight, Super strength, not to mention the array of incarnate powers. To gangsters with tommy guns, all he would need to do is round up every boss in the city, establish a new order and make it clear that anyone that tried to step up would be "cleaned up". Fear is a powerful motivator.
How exactly does "powerful enough to body slam a Rikti Mother ship" equal "powerful enought to stop all the crime in a city?" He can only be in one place at a time and not all crime can be stopped by punching it in the face.
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And there is my issue. What is that unknown reason?
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Maybe he could also put something into the water supply, to help keep people happy and reduce the chances of crime happening again?
Flight, Super strength, not to mention the array of incarnate powers. To gangsters with tommy guns, all he would need to do is round up every boss in the city, establish a new order and make it clear that anyone that tried to step up would be "cleaned up". Fear is a powerful motivator.
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And it'd be awesome if he had a way of detecting the evil thoughts of criminals, so perhaps Sister Psyche could help him find some way to do that?
Manticore seems good at covert stuff, so he could help gather intelligence on criminal activities for Statesman, and a streetwise guy like Back Alley Brawler could proberly give the Paragon Police Department a much-needed shakeup.
Plus, throw in the cleverness of Positron and quick thinking of Synapse, and their ability to come up with all kinds of usefull stuff to help the people of the city, and the idea of Stateman and his friends stepping up their efforts to fight crime really does sound more and more attractive.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Oh god, she's bringing out the snark!
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GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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I understand where you are coming from with this. However, I think you're presuming that he was 'only' powerful enough to punch a gangster at that time.
Ok, we were told that Statesman and Lord Recluse were incarnates who, unlike us, drank from the well too completely and gained their power too fast. This idea seems to fall apart from watching our very own intro video. Clearly, Statesman started out punching gangsters and over time grew powerful enough to drop a Rikti mothership out of the sky. This was the basis for our character having levels so that we too could become more powerful over time. Now if there is some variable I missed, I would love to know what it is, but as it stands, this seems to be a glaring omission.
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Perhaps, that is just how he started out, as powerful as he is (because it is said he doesnt want more power), but the only villains around were the mobsters.
Using the strength that can punch through a Rikit mothership on a human face would not be a good thing. He was probably just pulling a Superman and holding back.
As time and the energies of the box were released, that is when he was forced to use more and more of his strength etc. When you face a guy with a gun, you smack him.
When you face a guy inside armor, you punch through the armor and smack him.
When you face something inside a mothership, you punch through it and smack him.
Statesman is not a natural killer, he doesn't want to kill unless he is left no other choice I believe.
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Justice Server
Also, I fail to see a problem with it really.
We've just got our Alpha slots. We're still working out how Incarnate power works.
Statesman had just got his powers. He was still figuring out how they worked.
We're at the start of the journey. We're not punching Motherships outta the sky. And nor was he. Until later.
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GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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I understand where you are coming from with this. However, I think you're presuming that he was 'only' powerful enough to punch a gangster at that time.
Perhaps, that is just how he started out, as powerful as he is (because it is said he doesnt want more power), but the only villains around were the mobsters. Using the strength that can punch through a Rikit mothership on a human face would not be a good thing. He was probably just pulling a Superman and holding back. As time and the energies of the box were released, that is when he was forced to use more and more of his strength etc. When you face a guy with a gun, you smack him. When you face a guy inside armor, you punch through the armor and smack him. When you face something inside a mothership, you punch through it and smack him. Statesman is not a natural killer, he doesn't want to kill unless he is left no other choice I believe. |
I can accept that, contrary to what some may think, but with this premise, we were sold a bag of goods as it was used to show how we too could become powerful over time. I guess were just holding back too. I just want to know what the bridge between what we knew then, ie Well of the Furies, Pandora's Box, etc and what we know now...Incarnates.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
If you are invulnerable, when you face a guy with a gun you stand there and let him empty a clip at you. Casually look down as the bullets just bounce off you. Watch the guy pee his pants when he realizes the bullets just bounce off you. Then smack him.
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Best Darkseid vs Superman fight ever portrayed. Even though he loses, lol.
To borrow one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite superheroes:
"Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of... cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am." |
Also hands down best piece of dialogue in Justice League Unlimited.
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I'd buy that expansion!
Maybe he could also put something into the water supply, to help keep people happy and reduce the chances of crime happening again?
And it'd be awesome if he had a way of detecting the evil thoughts of criminals, so perhaps Sister Psyche could help him find some way to do that? Manticore seems good at covert stuff, so he could help gather intelligence on criminal activities for Statesman, and a streetwise guy like Back Alley Brawler could proberly give the Paragon Police Department a much-needed shakeup. Plus, throw in the cleverness of Positron and quick thinking of Synapse, and their ability to come up with all kinds of usefull stuff to help the people of the city, and the idea of Stateman and his friends stepping up their efforts to fight crime really does sound more and more attractive. |
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Ok, we were told that Statesman and Lord Recluse were incarnates who, unlike us, drank from the well too completely and gained their power too fast. This idea seems to fall apart from watching our very own intro video. Clearly, Statesman started out punching gangsters and over time grew powerful enough to drop a Rikti mothership out of the sky. This was the basis for our character having levels so that we too could become more powerful over time. Now if there is some variable I missed, I would love to know what it is, but as it stands, this seems to be a glaring omission.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."