Other than Stalker, what is good in pvp?
By
Arbiter_Shade,
Posted on: 2011-03-30 17:58 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
*checks year*
... did this post just take a long time to post? Like... many issues worth?
You saw someone in a PVP zone?
Were they actually looking for PVP, or just trying to get shivans or something?
(The question itself is best sent down to the PVP forums. The PVP game is much different, powers behave differently... went from a learning curve to a learning wall.)
My mistake, I'll put it in there. But to answer your question, I've never bothered with the PvP to be honest. It never really appealed to me, and my brief experience in there has reinforced that initial opinion of it.
BTW, thanks for not being overly condescending....oh wait.
PvP in this game pretty much doesn't exist anymore, due to the devs' numerous attempts to kill it off. They finally succeeded. It's broken beyond belief, nothing works with any logic whatsoever, and there is absolutely no hope for the future. Which is why there's a total of like 100 people still doing it in the whole game.
That said, if you still want to waste your time on it, prepare to spend like 15 billion inf to even be able to compete. Doesn't really matter how good you are anymore. All that matters is how much you spend.
Other than stalkers, blasters do really well in PvP because they can spam more damage than others. They're also really easy to play, just like stalkers. They'll die more, but they will also get more kills. But again, if you didn't spend 15 billion on your toon, be prepared to get owned by everybody else who has.
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The only correct part in this post is the " devs' numerous attempts to kill it off" bit. Everything else is pretty much completely wrong.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
PvP in this game pretty much doesn't exist anymore, due to the devs' numerous attempts to kill it off. They finally succeeded. It's broken beyond belief, nothing works with any logic whatsoever, and there is absolutely no hope for the future. Which is why there's a total of like 100 people still doing it in the whole game.
That said, if you still want to waste your time on it, prepare to spend like 15 billion inf to even be able to compete. Doesn't really matter how good you are anymore. All that matters is how much you spend. Other than stalkers, blasters do really well in PvP because they can spam more damage than others. They're also really easy to play, just like stalkers. They'll die more, but they will also get more kills. But again, if you didn't spend 15 billion on your toon, be prepared to get owned by everybody else who has. |
It's also worth pointing out that PvP zone activity varies from server to server. Virtue and Freedom have usually a modest but steady population in RV
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There was no condescension in that post. Annoyance at the continued broken state of PVP which has driven off even most of the people who ARE interested in it, yes. That there was plenty of. |
Originally Posted by Deathstroke33
BTW, thanks for not being overly condescending....oh wait.
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I was genuinely interested, though never more than casual - but interested enough to put together a guide to help PVEers get into PVP. Not really any more. The zones - which I find more fun than the arena, or used to when there was a population - are dead. I think I've seen five people in them, total, over the past year (that I haven't brought in myself.) None have been interested in fighting. (Edit: Wait, one was. That's it.) And no, I wasn't on a stalker for most of them, nor do I have a PVP "rep" or build.
The few times I've done any PVPing lately has been with a friend or two out of boredom.
The zones used to be interesting. You never knew who or what you might find from one time to the next (which is why I liked it over arena - a pickup game versus "organized team sports," if you will.) You could be worried about someone you spot, and win when you thought you'd lose. You could wind up with a really oddball combination of powers and ATs that works better than expected against the others in the zone. You could end up greatly outnumbered and still hold the zone. It was *fun.*
Now, it's dead.
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No, it's pretty spot on.|
Originally Posted by Silverado
The only correct part in this post is the " devs' numerous attempts to kill it off" bit. Everything else is pretty much completely wrong.
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Where's the action in Siren's, which used to be a heavily populated PVP zone pretty much regardless of server? There is none.
How about people looking to give you a hard time if you go for a Shivan? Shivans are risk-free outside of the NPCs now.
Warburg's generally a ghost town.
"RV is sort of active on two servers" does not mean it's on anything but life support - and that's probably just because the devs don't want the bad press of officially killing it off.
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LOL, pretty sure that 99% of the PvP community would agree with me. That is, if they all didn't already quit the game because PvP became so laughable.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
Everything else is pretty much completely wrong.
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It is true that PvP is but a shadow of the awesomeness it used to be pre-i13, but if you take a sec to uncloud your jaded mind out of all the cynicism and bitterness (in which you are sorta justified considering what the Posi/Castle did to it), and try to take a look at it with fresh eyes (the fresh eyes of a newcomer to PvP, such as the OP) you'll see that it's actually fun to slap whatever influence you have to spare on whatever toon and go mess around in a PvP zone.
Moving on...
A PvP toon doesn't have to be excessively pricey. Many newcomers nowadays prefer to roll either Kin or Fire Scrappers, with Regen as a secondary (unkillable toon with limited offenssive capabilities, aka you won't kill anyone who doesn't wanna die). If you consider yourself to be a little more bold, you can always try a Psi/EM Blaster (ranged damage dealer who can be more than a threat on his own, and you always have Phase Shift to facilitate retreat)
There is only one thing to keep in mind in all this: despite what others may say, PvP is not serious business
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No, Silverado was right, you don't know what you're talking about other than the part about PvP being basically dead.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
LOL, pretty sure that 99% of the PvP community would agree with me. That is, if they all didn't already quit the game because PvP became so laughable.
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Despite what some may say, you do not need a 15 billion inf build to be competitive. Various types of most AT's can work in PvP depending on what you want to do, obviously some more effective or way more effective than others.
As far as seeing a lot of Stalkers, well there are a lot. But most of them are pretty bad and only spam shrakz from hide.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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... where there's nobody else around?|
Originally Posted by Silverado
It is true that PvP is but a shadow of the awesomeness it used to be pre-i13, but if you take a sec to uncloud your jaded mind out of all the cynicism and bitterness (in which you are sorta justified considering what the Posi/Castle did to it), and try to take a look at it with fresh eyes (the fresh eyes of a newcomer to PvP, such as the OP) you'll see that it's actually fun to slap whatever influence you have to spare on whatever toon and go mess around in a PvP zone.
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ESPECIALLY when we're looking at a newcomer to PVP, that's a horrible thing to have them experience. At least (as the old complaints were) getting "Ganked" meant there was someone THERE.
Do any of the PVP SGs even spend time regularly in any of the zones? I'm pretty sure all I ever hear from them is Arena/Ladder... which can, I suppose, be fun in itself, but it's nowhere near the same.
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| There is only one thing to keep in mind in all this: despite what others may say, PvP is not serious business |
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
As far as seeing a lot of Stalkers, well there are a lot. But most of them are pretty bad and only spam shrakz from hide.
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Like I said, RV is moderately active at least on Freedom and Virtue.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
... where there's nobody else around?
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WB and Siren's are dead not because PvP is dead, but because most people have their IOs slotted at level 50 (for max enhancement bonus %) which don't work on the lower level zones. Ditto on incarnate abilities.
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And between I9-I13? |
Originally Posted by Silverado
Like I said, RV is moderately active at least on Freedom and Virtue.
WB and Siren's are dead not because PvP is dead, but because most people have their IOs slotted at level 50 (for max enhancement bonus %) which don't work on the lower level zones. Ditto on incarnate abilities. |
(Admittedly that doesn't apply to incarnates...) Besides, I still hear 30ish as the sweet spot for IOs, specifically for exemping. I'd still stick with WB and Siren's being dead because of the state of PVP, frankly. The exodus occurred then, and those zones population have never recovered. (And, again, the +5 levels of powers make the level 30 cutoff in Sirens, and 38 cutoff in WB, pointless - and make BB, effectively, a 15-30 zone... which would be rather unbalanced, if anyone were ever in there to do anything but farm PVP IOs or get Shivans.
(And again, "One of the zones is sort of active on two servers" isn't a glowing recommendation.)
Edit: Yeah. Sound a bit bitter, I know. *shrug* But you did suggest he head into "a PVP zone," and that used to be fun in almost any of them. I'm really aiming the "That's not a glowing recommendation" at the devs, not you. Used to love being able to pick pretty much any PVP zone on any server I was on and have at least a 50/50 chance of finding a fight if I stuck around a little bit.
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No, but the doomy and gloomy "ZOMG PVP IS DEAD WTF BBQ LOL HI SUP" isn't exactly accurate either
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
(And again, "One of the zones is sort of active on two servers" isn't a glowing recommendation.)
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It is from where I sit. I'm not kidding when I say I've seen perhaps five people and gotten one fight out of the last year. (Well, one running fight back and forth. Not "A" fight.) I "live" on multiple servers, as well, so it's not just "try another server."|
Originally Posted by Silverado
No, but the doomy and gloomy "ZOMG PVP IS DEAD WTF BBQ LOL HI SUP" isn't exactly accurate either
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However, you're right that the overall doom and gloom isn't that helpful for the OP. So, suggestions:
- Find like minded people, either in the PVP section or server section, or just get some friends together.
- Go nuts in the zones. Try them all. Get ready for a learning curve as you run into everything that's different, but try to have fun.
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Try a blaster or a dom if you are looking for something in the offensive role. |
Originally Posted by Deathstroke33
I went into PvP the other night and was staggered by the number of stalkers running around. I knew that stalkers would prove to be the majority, but I didn't expect it to be upwards of 75-80%. It got me to thinking, what else works well in PvP? I'm sure tanks are ok, with their ability to withstand the AS and then taunt, but are unable to kill because of lack of damage.
I would like something for PvP other than a stalker. Possible, or am I just SoL? |
Psi/Em is a solid choice that doesn't need to cost billions unless you are willing to spend it. The return on those billions are huge though since damage procs really add up.
The support role is somewhat limited in this system to emps, pains and thermal.
Disruption theres a few options the most common is trick arrow. Mobility is a huge part of CoH pvp so -jump is pretty powerful. Grav/TA is a solid choice. Only real reason to go for anything but a troller is aim.
Sonic/Ta if you want to do some damage.
Archery/Ta is workable but doesnt offer much beyond a hard hitting tier 3 attack and a good stun(high base duration and high base accuracy with a short activation time.)
Lots of servers are trying to boost interest in PVP at this time. Look at the Server boards to see if yours has a PVP bootcamp starting up. If not, maybe hop over to one of those that does. I know Champion is about to start one up and teams are being finalized tomorrow.
As for what's good? I'm just learning this stuff myself, but spike damage and spike counters seem to be the primary elements of PVP today. Range before melee, hidden before visible. Speed and evasion capabilities are critical.
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ok. lets do that. i'm a new player and decided to roll force field as my first toon. I get curious, go into zone, and notice my buffs aren't doing any good, my cages don't work, and i'm still getting held despite having a mez bubble. sometime later i level up an ill/rad and notice after sometime that my heals are for some reason, doing less AND slowing me down to get ganked by the exorbitant amount of stalkers and kin scraps roaming around. i also notice that i'm getting knocked around like crazy despite having kb ios and acrobatics. |
Originally Posted by Silverado
It is true that PvP is but a shadow of the awesomeness it used to be pre-i13, but if you take a sec to uncloud your jaded mind out of all the cynicism and bitterness (in which you are sorta justified considering what the Posi/Castle did to it), and try to take a look at it with fresh eyes (the fresh eyes of a newcomer to PvP, such as the OP) you'll see that it's actually fun to slap whatever influence you have to spare on whatever toon and go mess around in a PvP zone.
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and most imporantly, I as a new player has absolutely no idea why any of this is happening since there is no warning or pop up message or "lolbtw" message telling me all of this stupid S**t has been put on my toons (and there's no way of knowing without coming and checking the boards).
yup, sounds like fun to me.
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Moving on... A PvP toon doesn't have to be excessively pricey. Many newcomers nowadays prefer to roll either Kin or Fire Scrappers, with Regen as a secondary (unkillable toon with limited offenssive capabilities, aka you won't kill anyone who doesn't wanna die). If you consider yourself to be a little more bold, you can always try a Psi/EM Blaster (ranged damage dealer who can be more than a threat on his own, and you always have Phase Shift to facilitate retreat) |
however, if you're doing something were the numbers are more controlled i.e. 1v1s-8v8s it's alot harder to be competitive on something that doesn't have a large sum pumped into it. but silver age's post had alot of correct parts, one being that skill doesn't matter in pvp anymore, how good you are depends on what you roll and how much you pump into it.
but it is true that the base survivability/power of some sets is so much higher than other sets that you don't *have* to put massive amounts of inf into a toon, but there are some that you do have to put in a considerable amount to be relevant. for example, i could put 500 mil into a regin and be 10 times more survivable than someone who put billions upon billions into an SR build.
OP: there's 4 tier's of pvp. there's taunters, disruption, buffers and damage. if you want to taunt, fire tanks are the way to go(broots are pointless) disruption has alot more options, anything that has alot of knockback so like FF, grav, earth if you know what you're doing, ill has some nice disrution and secondary's that can debuff specifically -res debuffs -movement debuffs (not to be confused with slows since those are pointless, these are your -jump, -fly ect.) therm is good example since it has a nice debuff in heat exhaustion. buffers are very limited to emp's and pains. and damage falls under psy/fire blasters kin/fire scraps mind/fire doms and stalkers. but if you're going to zone you're better off going with something that can take a spike so a tank or regin. it really is ridiculous the level of survivabilty a regin has due to internal heals, hiber or shadow meld/ phase and mog. unless you glitch/lag/brainfart/something, you'll never ever ever die.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
Other than Stalker, a buffed, charging Blaster is very very scary and a high level Tanker with tons of set bonuses is really really hard to kill. After they changed the formula, a Tanker can literally throw rocks at you and you die. lol
Controls are a lot less useful now. I remember a Domination hold used to last a long time but it now lasts like 5-6s? The hold duration is just very short now.
I've only PvP a bit after the change in arena and I find Bane is pretty good but I wasn't pvping with pvpers. It's just my friends and I were trying to get the badge and we were fooling around.
I don't know what it is but I used to PvP a lot in Guild Wars, War Hammer Online and even Champions (I like CO's pvp) but I just cannot get into pvp in this game. I can't put into words.. pvp in this game is just weird. Sometimes I feel so cheap to tp foe somebody and kill him or I get super pissed when my mastermind got tped and died so quick.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Yeah because that part isn't important or anything to a newcomer. If PvP is dead, does anything else even matter?|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
you don't know what you're talking about other than the part about PvP being basically dead.
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That said, I do know what I'm talking about. Sure you don't need 15 bil to "have fun". Like mentioned above, you can go to a zone on an SO'd regin scrapper and "have fun" by hibernating and running to base any time you're in trouble. You're also going to be pretty much useless offensively. When I said you need a lot of money, I thought I made it clear that it's needed to be competitive.
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Fixed. |
Originally Posted by Silverado
There is only one thing to keep in mind in all this: despite what others may say, PvP is not serious business in MMORPGs.
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Outside of MMOs, it is a very serious and profitable business.
Just you wait, after the Dev's get this Incarnate thing all finished, we'll have a full issue devoted to PvP...and fixing Masterminds!
*checks date
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PvP needs something, not sure what, maybe capture the flag? Or something like Wintergrasp. |
Originally Posted by Deathstroke33
My mistake, I'll put it in there. But to answer your question, I've never bothered with the PvP to be honest. It never really appealed to me, and my brief experience in there has reinforced that initial opinion of it.
BTW, thanks for not being overly condescending....oh wait. |
I dont much get into PvP, however WOW was able to tempt me into it from time to time with things like Wintergrasp - zone PvP with a decent reward for wining... access to an instance with decent drops.
Maybe a hazard zone that has mobs with a slightly higher chance to drop shards/threads with a TF available that runs fairly quick and has a higher rate of inf/thread/shard drops that is open only to hero *or* villain based on who won.... sure it would be a little less then original, it would get people to PvP.
For those unfamiliar with WOW/RoTLK: http://www.wowwiki.com/Wintergrasp
I think this would bring more AT's into PvP. Not that the game doesn't need some work and to be rebalanced for PvP.
I've thought that PvP here in CoH is pretty limited with no point except killing the other person. Deathmatch type PvP is hard for me to get into, I would much prefer a type of capture the flag, or hold A,B,C points to win type games. I'm not a big fan of WoW, but they're PvP is done pretty well.
BTW, thanks for all the advice. I'm thinking about giving a tanker a shot.
For tankers, make sure it's super strength. Other sets are far inferior. As far as primaries, probably fire or invuln is what you want.
I went into PvP the other night and was staggered by the number of stalkers running around. I knew that stalkers would prove to be the majority, but I didn't expect it to be upwards of 75-80%. It got me to thinking, what else works well in PvP? I'm sure tanks are ok, with their ability to withstand the AS and then taunt, but are unable to kill because of lack of damage.
I would like something for PvP other than a stalker. Possible, or am I just SoL?