Other than Stalker, what is good in pvp?

there's a massive disconnect in your logic between ED and those changes and the pvp changes. the most obvious being that IOs and Pre ED toons are very comparable in terms of power except IOs are more complex and give a more difficult element to the game. IO's fixed the problems that ED created. they also went and continued to fix bugs and provide support for the system and held up their end of the bargain of "yea this is necessary and it sucks, but we'll ultimately fix it for the better" and they did. also, ED didn't kill the pve community. was there a massive amount of people that left? yea sure but it didn't do to the pve community what i13 did to the pvp community. the game was still playable post ED, it was more difficult and wasn't so cookie cutter fire tank emp blaster team beats everything, but it didn't kill pve.

if the devs had put in ED and the GDN's and never did anything with it after that then you might have a point.

they weren't percieve betrayals. they were outright betrayals. they promised us something, in writing, multiple times, and have yet to deliver.

However, it does mean a great deal even if you don't think it does. it shows that the devs openly don't care anything for the player base and have no respect for them, which is a very very large obstacle to overcome if you're trying to accomplish change for said community.

alot of people joke about "oh yea the devs hate X" this is a rare case were the devs, do in fact, hate pvp.

again, since you clearly don't know what you're talking about, lighthouse was the community rep that came out and said to the pvper's that all the changes were not made for pvper's. he wasn't rubbing it in our face, he was doing us a favor by telling us straight up what the bigger dev team wasn't. it was a very commendable act. he was fired soon after, wonder why?


do you not see the horrible catch22 that the devs have put pvp in? are you serously that blind?

you aren't going to attract any new players because the system is incredibly broken with countless bugs that haven't/aren't going to get fixed. attracting new pvper's from other games is out the window since every other game on out now has pvp that works better than coh and attracting pver's to pvp is a dumb decision. the obvious solution being to fix the system, this time listening to pvp player feedback and not implementing an issue half cocked.

yet, you can't do that because you can't get enough players to participate in the current broken system (go figure)

people have tried to increase participation with leagues, bootcamps, ect. but in the end, the system is too broken and not deep enough to maintain any playerbase. prei13 was somewhat similar and the i13 changes SHOULD have addressed this. instead that just turned a scratch into much larger wound.
so then i13...

except most of the Wah! now is coming from pver's/ the new people you're trying to get to pvp who go into the system, recognize the obvious brokenness of it, and come to the same conclusion that the old pvp community came to back during implementation.

that'd be nice if the system allowed for that to happen. it doesn't. at all.

except they kinda already did that. during beta as a matter of fact. yet nothing was changed. there are multiple threads with large amounts of data that supports changes yet here we sit 3 years latter, in the same sinking ship.

you're right that complaining hasn't done any good ove the past 3 years, but its not that it isn't supported whinning, its that the cries fall on deaf ears. there is literally nothing more the playerbase can do to warrent changes, it is entirely up to the dev team to do something, and it has been for a few years now, they haven't.

I notice you have no answer to that... wait, just a sec:

That would be - ready for it? - the same changes you call "good." The ones that make powers behave completely differently in PVP than they do in PVE. The ones that *increase* the learning curve. The ones that drove out the people who loved PVP in this game two and a quarter years ago, and did NOTHING to bring in replacements.

But, hey, you go ahead and dismiss that, keep your head up... er, in the sand and say the changes were good and that the PVPers were complaining just because it's a change, and that the UTTER LACK of developer attention to PVP since then doesn't matter. Do that and keep proving you have no clue.

I'll say it again - IF the changes were actually good for PVP, IF the changes actually did what the developers claimed they would do, it wouldn't matter that the old guard had left, because there would have been replacements. We'd have an active, vibrant PVP community NOW, with new people who never knew pre-I13 PVP, keeping the arenas active and keeping things jumping in the zones.

We do not.

That would be... the data given during beta? The data given just after release? The data that was given, with promises that "Hey, we'll keep tuning it and fixing it," and then gets promptly ignored, with *nothing* fixed in PVP?

You need to learn the history of what's happened, instead of just dismissing it like you seem to love doing.

Know what I would love?
I'd love having to actually consider the character I take into the zones if I want to run a patrol, much less snag a shivan or nuke. I'd love to look at my character again and say "Hey, I'm going to need to grab someone from my SG to help watch my back" because there's an actual, real possibility of a threat (other than the NPCs) in the zone. I'd love to earn the five hour badge in the zones without noticing, in one or two stretches, because the zones are so active and there are so many good fights going on. I'd love to be able to tell someone to watch the ripples in the water to keep an eye on that stealthed character they're worried about. Can't do that, because (a) there's nobody to worry about, and (b) there's nobody to TELL.

I'd be doing all that currently if the PVP changes were actually good. Why? Because people would be PVPing.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

I played a solo stalker mostly(and some melee toons back then) and a good "anti-stalker" toon or an organized team sent ripples down my spine...nothing worse then getting ganked as a stalker :0

man i miss the speed of the pvp game back then!

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

Right. That's why there are guides up, PVP bootcamps being offered and the like. To keep people from joining and coming back from it.

Oh, wait, that sounds more like PVPers trying to *encourage* others to try it. And yet... people still aren't in the arenas or zones on anything close to a regular basis.

The more you post, the more clueless you make yourself look.

Funny how you refuse to answer what I've put to you TWICE now, instead whining about "whining."

People play "bad" sets, "poor" powersets and the like regardless of what people on the boards say. Again, it's been two and a quarter years. IF THE CHANGES WERE GOOD, PEOPLE WOULD BE PVPING no matter what the "old guard" says. People don't ask permission of the "Pre-I13 PVPers" to enter the arena or zones. If they want to, they do it.

Yet nobody's there.

See my Guides and Tutorials

the community doesn't keep people from pvping. coh pvp keeps people from pvping

is it really that hard of a concept to grasp that any player that is remotely interested in pvp wants the system TO MAKE SENSE.

there are plenty of leagues and boot camps going on to enocurage pvp. its not doing anything because it's broken. again THERE IS NOTHING THE PLAYERBASE CAN DO ANYMORE. it is entirely in the hands of the devs.

lolwut? its not like the data changed. it's not like the dev's have made any changes to pvp. the things that were broken and need fixing 3 years ago are still broken.


it's amazing how little you know about this. if you go look in the i20 feedback section RIGHT NOW dawun has an entire thread about data and feedback on the incarnate powers in pvp with list of feedback and things that need to be fixed. it won't happen because it is entirely up to the devs. the whining crowd has absolutely nothing to do with it.

and for that matter, there are multiple running sticky threads with new bugs for stuff that has been running since i13 with stuff, they're sticky'd at the top of the pvp section if you wanna look at them. you won't because you have a tendency to just spout stuff off without looking at what has actually happened but they're still there.

for instance, KM was added afew issues ago and there are multiple posts of data on it in those sticky's because the t9 for scrappers is incredibly broken.

again its really amazing how little you know about this. there is data. its be compiled and added to since i13. THE DEVS WON'T LOOK AT IT. or if they do they disregard it. which i guess isn't that hard to do since you seem to do it pretty well.

and people ask for i12 back because in the mind of the community, it's the easiest solution to the problem of pvp. a reversion would be easier than a complete overhaul.

also, you can't get people intersted in pvp. because the system is broken. people have tried. I personally have tried 3 times to get different things going. people don't want to do it because of the i13 system.

okay jackwagon, lets follow that logic abit shall we?

you want a more populated pvp component. How, prey tell, do you expect a game with a dev team that hasn't given any support for pvp in the past and drove off the pvp community, to increase population when the system is broken and it is blatantly obvious to everyone that goes into pvp, whether they hear the wah! or not.

your way to fix pvp is to increase population in a broken system with people who don't want to pvp in the first place i.e. pver's. yup, sounds like a winner to me.

theres only one way to increase pvp population, fix the GD system and give it some support.

Hey SM, u still around in zones? I havent seen any of your toons but...I just got pawned by your old buddy Darth when I stopped in SC to see what was going on this weekend. About 20 ppl running around (oh how I loved the old PvP zones) and this km/regin with like 20 buffs flew out of the sky and 2 shotted me. I didn't know it was Darth until I switched sides and saw all his buff toons hanging out in the hosp lol. You should get back on it, miss ya.

Replying to the bolded part. I'm not a major PvPer, and never did any more than casual PvPing, and I have to agree that the i13 changes were incredibly bad. They (all the changes collectivly) weren't a slap to the face of PvP, they were a shotgun blast. PvP is dead, what you've experenced since is the headless reanimated skeleton of what it once was. And again, I'm saying this as a casual PvPer, one who took scrappers, blasters, controllers and MMs into PvP zones before the changes, and scrappers, tanks, blasters, MMs, controllers and even a stalker into the zones since. And although I only have 8 fights to go by since the changes, I have to say I think all the ATs (that have gotten into fights) are worse off for PvP, and much worse off for trying to take on the zone spawns.

Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler That...was a Herocon 09 exclusive easter egg. The powerset will not have doves associated with it. Namely because you guys would want to color tint the damn doves, or make them hawks/ravens/flying sharks/etc and that's just a headache I do...not...want...to deal with.

Pretty much this.
About the only pvp i see anymore is in RV or the arena, and even that has become rare. Champion still has groups actively promoting pvp and offering training for newbies, but it's one of the few places i see this. Even then it's fairly hard to find people in any zones unless an event or concerted effort to recruit people through channels is going on. Outside of those efforts i rarely see any pvp chatter aside from groups of friends farming for pvp IOs in the arena.

Never a serious a pvper i used to enjoy bouncing around the zones on one of my admittedly less than optimal Defenders or my PB. Well, i guess my PB is still somewhat fun, but only really in comparison. Arcanaville posted a month or two back about changes to the system that she thinks would improve the pvp experience, but while they sound good in theory i've little reason to think we'll see anything happen. Still, i hope one day the Devs at least consider updating things.

It could happen. (Even if it probably won't.)

Hey man, didn't see your post until today. I actually gave up on PvP, so I don't bother with it anymore. Been enjoying the PvE since I came back a few months ago...doing lots of TF's and the Incarnate stuff.

PvP is just too broken to bother with. Just by giving up on it and switching to PvE, I went from despising this game and everybody involved in making it, to actually being a CoH fan again

Glad to see ur still around man and I hear you. I was always the opposite, enjoyed PvE and simply ventured into PvP when I got bored and then back to TFing with different toons. Anyways, very cool that you 'got your groove back, Stella', in whatever mode you play in. Maybe I'll see you on one of the WTF jumpoffs

Yeah, time spent on making more high level content like Incarnate and Trials is definitely better than trying to fix PvP in this game.

One of my friends who left this game went to WoW because he really enjoys the high level Raid content. Recently he came back and he is very happy with all the new "high-level" stuff. Now he can't decide which new ability to try first and he loves more "work"! "Work" as in doing trials to get Threads and Exp.