The endgame grind, perceived or reality?

I'm sorry, but Lineage II is evil, and a game in which the grind CANNOT be approached in any positive way. That game will lead you by the nose, drag you though endless time sinks kicking and screaming, and then laugh at your misfortune when your valued chest piece breaks into crystals upon upgrade failure, and then again when your treasured pants drop off your body in a PvP fight. The entire game is nothing but endless, mindless, pointless hunts, and if it weren't for the hot Orc ladies, I could never have forgiven myself for ever setting foot in that accursed game.

I do not want ANYTHING from Lineage II, good or bad, in this game on pain of death. Sorry, NCsoft, but it's just that bad.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

MP, Pressure is everywhere. Pressure pumps blood through your body. Pressure is used to input keystrokes to this online boards. Pressure is what you do to your wife during "Grinding" :-) It's unavoidable.

The AE may have a use once again. I hope we get to create AE Incarnate Trial mishes.

What I am talking about here, from my perspective, is peer pressure and personal angst over what others have and do.

I am sorry the sort of pressure I am referring to is unavoidable for you.

It is avoidable for me and many others I know.

*shrug*

You can avoid this game but the pressure will come from somewhere else. Do you not want to get the value from what you pay monthly for this game? If not, then why do you pay? You have pressure, you just aren't fully aware of it. Control is an illusion because of time.

You're making the mistake of thinking that the Incarnate system is only about Praetoria - Praetoria is just the first stage.

This is funny.

Look, I got my 'moneys worth' about 5 years ago. There is no underlying pressure for me to play this game. The monthly fee is so low on my financial radar as to be free. I am lucky in that respect.

There is nothing in this game over which I feel pressure, except, perhaps, when I have to use the bathroom and I tell myself, just one more group of baddies, hold it!

As for RL, of course I have pressures. I cannot deny that. But I was referring, specifically, to the peer pressure of keeping up with others that you referred to with your comparison to work and RL of having to log into the game weekly.

We are now wandering into a philosophical, semantic discussion that I find boring. We could talk in circles forever over the existential inner workings of the brain, affects of society and culture over perceived pressures of RL and never get to an end upon which we both agree, especially when you start telling me of what I am and am not aware.

We appear disagree on a fundamental level about how to interact with the world. I have added all I can to this discussion.

Off to play now.

For now I wouldn't assume we're going to get anything more than the initial 10. I suspect if they prove popular enough the devs will look at adding more the trick will be creating content that is balanced for people who have the first 10 slots without locking out new characters (the old "gear reset" problem).

The question is what is value for money from the game? I play the game because I want to play the game. If I'm not playing much I cancel my subscription until I want to play again. Sometimes that means I end up paying for a month of game-time I don't use (in fact I specifically pay monthly rather than in longer periods since paying for a longer period practically guarantees I'll end up not using all of it).

But at the end of the day the important things to remember are that:
1. My entertainment dollars are there to entertain me and not the other way around
2. Paying sub time upfront means it's a sunk cost

If the only reason I'm playing the game is to "get my money's worth" then it's time to take a break. Taking a break costs me nothing, the money is already spent and I've got plenty of alternative free sources of entertainment (such as spending hours upon hours reading TVTropes or re-playing old computer games) I'm not going to spend my time playing CoX if I don't want to.

Thanks for admitting that you have pressures. I was concerned when you said you only liked to "grind." Your comments about peer pressure are interesting. If you hope to have and maintain a leadership position anywhere you should try to grasp this concept on a deeper level...even though it is boring to you :-)

I am the IT director for a multi-million dollar company and I have been for 10 years, does that count?

There is no concept here I need to grasp. You seem to think you somehow know more than I do about how I should live my life. You don't.

I want to clarify something here. I used "get my money's worth" as common point for discussion. Few people come to CoH to just pay out and get nothing back, right? If you are one of those people, congrats.

I think the biggest question on this discussion is the level of investment that is required to be a part of this community now and in the future with the new stuff. Some feel it is grinding content with no end and other like the grind(MajorPrankster). The level of investment just 5 months ago was different than it is now. So we discuss this and the indirect issues. People voice their opinions and everyone takes away what they want.

Have I demanded that change your life specifically? Please point it out to me. All I know is that change and time are the constant variables in everything. If you want to match johnson's, I've been an IT Director for a multi-billion dollar company for 20 years. You are right about one thing, I don't know more than you

You implied I need to grasp something to have a management position, I simply gave an example of why you are incorrect.

See that's the issue...you seem to want to match johnson's and I could not care less.

I brought up my position simply because you implied I was somehow missing something by not allowing certain pressures to influence my life or grasping that they do regardless.

As I stated before, this is going nowhere, as we obviously approach life in very different ways.

I don't mean to pick on you specifically. I've seen this sentiment a couple times recently and I don't really get it.

Just because you could theoretically be running over my grandmother doesn't mean I should be grateful you're only kicking my puppy.

Not to be a negative Nancy, but even if your claims are true.

It is possible you'd be better at your job if you weren't missing what ever he is implying you are missing.

I'm sorry Sam, but the Incarnate system is something to do with 50s. Probably not for YOU to do, but that is a choice, and really, you don't play the same game many other players do. You solo most of the time. You don't really touch inventions. You go out of your way to not repeat things. At one time that may have been a typical experience, but I would wager a good amount of money it is not any longer.

There are new trials. That is something new to do. And it is a new kind of teaming, with multiple teams of 8. That is new even if you are doing the same task. Just because there are not 10 arcs does not mean the whole system is a failure and constitutes nothing to do in reality.

I would much rather have 2 trials than wait another 6 months for them to be able to release 4. And I do want them to spend time on things like these trials instead of just more arcs. Why? I need mechanical differences to feel like I am doing something new. I need the game to play differently, not read differently.

That doesn't apply to this situation at all (and good lord is that analogy morbid).

Try this: I'm glad I'm only trimming one shrub and not cutting down six trees.

And to cut down the trees I first need to fell one with an axe. After that, I get a saw. I have to use the saw to fell two trees, and then I get a chainsaw to fell the final three.

That's what it's like to compare CoX's trials to WoW's raiding.

The difference being WoW's raiding tends to make you focus around one, maybe two or three main characters.

We get 36 slots in CoX and have had what, seven years to build up a variety of level 50 characters. All of which need the axe, saw, chainsaw treatment to progress.

I've gotta ask, have you raided in WoW? Compared to the Incarnate Trials it's like a homework assignment. 4-6 nights a week, 3-8 hours a night? For the CHANCE at getting one piece of reward equipment off of... 8 bosses max, if your guild is that good?

Everyone in the trials gets progress toward their rewards at a much greater pace than other MMO's.

Yes I've raided in WoW which is why I'm disappointed in CoX for aping its end game progression.

Especially if what I've heard from the beta server about random rewards for the Incarnate Trials is true.

If that's what you're worried about I wouldn't be. You're guaranteed a reward, just not what class of reward - but you'll still get threads, iXP and merits, which are the most important things anyway.

No to mention that even the longest trials are like an hour long due to the time constraints. Even if you fail you get progression towards the slots, and threads.