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Originally Posted by Smallzies
remember me when yur gettin rid of yur stuffs kthxbai
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I'm keeping it all! But i'll still think of you.
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Hey all. I fell out of PvP camp early when I got hit with a few random rolls of working Friday nights and missing out on planned activities (didn't want to be THAT guy). Regardless, I have been following along and picking up what I could here and there.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Defense: Code:
Base A B H 10% 8% 9% 9% 15% 11% 14% 13% 20% 13% 18% 16% 25% 15% 21% 19% 30% 16% 24% 22% 35% 17% 28% 24% 40% 18% 30% 26% 45% 18% 33% 28% 50% 19% 35% 30% 60% 19% 40% 32% 70% 20% 43% 34% 80% 20% 46% 35% 90% 20% 48% 37% 100% 20% 50% 37% B = Scrap/Stalk/Brute/Tank/VEAT H = HEATs [/code] |
Question about the above chart...is it saying that no matter how much +def you build into a Blast/Con/Def/Dom/Corr/MM that defense gets DRd to 20% in PvP?
Keep up the good work/fun
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Hey all. I fell out of PvP camp early when I got hit with a few random rolls of working Friday nights and missing out on planned activities (didn't want to be THAT guy). Regardless, I have been following along and picking up what I could here and there.
Question about the above chart...is it saying that no matter how much +def you build into a Blast/Con/Def/Dom/Corr/MM that defense gets DRd to 20% in PvP? Keep up the good work/fun |
yep.
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The numbers above are rounded to the nearest percent; this is what that that specific table looks like for very high values and rounded to hundredths of a percent:|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Question about the above chart...is it saying that no matter how much +def you build into a Blast/Con/Def/Dom/Corr/MM that defense gets DRd to 20% in PvP?
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100% 20.48%
120% 20.70%
140% 20.83%
160% 20.92%
180% 20.98%
200% 21.03%
250% 21.10%
300% 21.13%
400% 21.17%
As a practical matter, I think its fair to say you're not likely to see defense values higher than about 21% on squishies. In fact, I can say you aren't going to see higher values than 21.22%. The DR equation is a bit complex, when B < 1 its a diminishing returns curve which means if you increase the value high enough, you will get increasing values (but at a decreasing rate), but when B=1 like it is for defense its actually an asymptotic curve, which means it approaches but never exceeds some very specific value. In the case of defense for squishies, that value is ... 2/3/pi, or about 0.2122. And I hate trigonometric calculus.
For reference, the asymptotic limit for class B (melee) is 64.305%, and for class H (HEATs) its 42.44%.
Note again: this property only happens for DR curves in which B = 1, which are things like Defense and ToHit. For other attributes like damage strength, there is no asymptotic limit: stack more, get more, just less the more you stack. But at no point do you hit or approach a limit.
And no, I don't think that was a good idea to do for defense and tohit, but that's what it does.
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This confirms my testing last night.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
100% 20.48% 120% 20.70% 140% 20.83% 160% 20.92% 180% 20.98% 200% 21.03% 250% 21.10% 300% 21.13% 400% 21.17% |
On a lark, I went into RV with my Ill/Emp Controller and fired off Tier 3 Barrier (+Def/+Res). My Res to all (with Temp Invuln on) went to 50% and my Defense was around 18-19%, noting I do have some +Defense slotted already.
Anyone else miss the days Fortunatas never got hit?
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Thats pretty rough. I thought about dusting off an old FF/ Defender, running a mids build up for +ranged def and throwing him into a zone. Based on Arcanaville's #s/Neuronia's input...it doesnt seem like it would be worth it. I thought I would be relatively safe bouncing around zone Force Bolting toons for some KB fun, but I think anyone with Aim/BU would easliy shred 20% defense.
Thanks guys and keep putting out that good info
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
FF Def would still be good.The shields are ok and Force Bolt and Force Bubble can be a pain, PFF is always good!
At worst it's a "fun" toon.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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Hell no.
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
Anyone else miss the days Fortunatas never got hit?
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Fun is what its all about but if Im capped at 20% def across the board and then pop PFF for some breathing room and only get .9% more defense...I'm not sure that it's worth playing. Maybe this is one of those actual gameplay VS numbers/mechanics deals that I would have to try out for myself. I know when I have seen bubblers since i13, if I didn't kill them after popping Aim, they were usually open to a spike from a team roaming around like a group of sharks that smelled blood.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
FF Def would still be good.The shields are ok and Force Bolt and Force Bubble can be a pain, PFF is always good!
At worst it's a "fun" toon. |
At least VEATs aren't hit as hard with the defense DR curve as others, I may need to look at a Soldier instead of playing out a Bubbler. Thanks again for the great info.
And no, I do not miss 2-3 Forts perma MLing themselves and fighting off 12 heroes and winning
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
Since this is actually the first time I bothered to do this sort of analysis on the DR curve parameters, I wasn't specifically aware of the asymptotic behavior that results from B=1. I will try to remember to bring it up with Black Scorpion the next time I'm chatting with him. I do not believe that specific behavior was intentional. My suspicion is that the designer that originally configured the curves believed they were diminishing returns curves for all reasonable values of A and B. Asymptotic curves don't make sense in this context ("asymptotic" meaning there is a real actual cap to the values you can generate no matter how much effort you put into it - this is not true in the general case for most of the DR curves).
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Bubblers can be a massive pain in smaller Arena maps. You get to KB people for Stalker spikes, Force Bubble detoggles non-stop but has a nice repel factor and the ranged/end drain resist isn't too bad. That's a really controlled environment though with two Empaths and a bunch of Blasters.|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Fun is what its all about but if Im capped at 20% def across the board and then pop PFF for some breathing room and only get .9% more defense...I'm not sure that it's worth playing. Maybe this is one of those actual gameplay VS numbers/mechanics deals that I would have to try out for myself. I know when I have seen bubblers since i13, if I didn't kill them after popping Aim, they were usually open to a spike from a team roaming around like a group of sharks that smelled blood.
At least VEATs aren't hit as hard with the defense DR curve as others, I may need to look at a Soldier instead of playing out a Bubbler. Thanks again for the great info. And no, I do not miss 2-3 Forts perma MLing themselves and fighting off 12 heroes and winning |
VEATs are nice. I just finished my Fortunata for Boot Camp,44 pts of KB protect + Indomitable Will = 54, nice range on Blasts thanks to Centrioles, Mind Link, good perception and some nice status effects. Yum.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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That's the reason I wanted to join you guys for Bootcamp this season, because I have always just been an extremely casual zone player with some arena going on with the SG once in a blue moon (most just don't like the way their PvE built toons play so differently in a PvP atmosphere).|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Bubblers can be a massive pain in smaller Arena maps. You get to KB people for Stalker spikes, Force Bubble detoggles non-stop but has a nice repel factor and the ranged/end drain resist isn't too bad. That's a really controlled environment though with two Empaths and a bunch of Blasters.
VEATs are nice. I just finished my Fortunata for Boot Camp,44 pts of KB protect + Indomitable Will = 54, nice range on Blasts thanks to Centrioles, Mind Link, good perception and some nice status effects. Yum. |
I agree that a bubbler definitely has the pros you pointed out, but I'm usually just solo running until I get my fix and then it's back to PvE. I don't know if a FF/ Defender is self-sufficient enough to support my once a week foray in RV/SC. I may give it a shot just because of your points
That Fort sounds pretty hot. I'm thinking of trying out a Crab or Huntsman just because I haven't seen as many of them (probably for good reason). Thanks again Neuronia for chatting me up about reference bubblers.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
You could make a go of a Bane Spider maybe...you could use Surveillance and Executioner's Strike to hit targets pretty hard, as well as Poisonous Ray for debuffs and you have the advantage of having VEAT perception. Pretty sure Web Grenades are available somehow which are good in zones...
If you just want something to mess around in zones, try a Gravity/Trick Arrow or a Rad/Therm Corr. You can proc-gun Neutrino Bolt and Heat Exhaust is always popular (though with the + End epic, maybe not too useful?).
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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Ive seen a cpl of VEAT variations that werent NWs/Forts...some were pure disruption and others were built to actually be damge dealers, but theyre just not played a lot overall from my limited experience.
I'm working on a Fire/TA Corr PvP build for a pve toon from awhile back. You think that would be a decent mix of damage and disruption? Since I run around solo in zones, not sure if I could kill anything with a Grav/TA Troller but have heard before that they were fun to play.
I like Rad/ and I like /Therms, having been on the opposite end of them in zone, they are pretty annoying. I've usually been able to just evade until HE wears off (I have a PB that is able to shake HE off altogether and fight through it). Ive seen /Therms and Cold/Darks in a lot of Arena 1v1s doing great, but not sure how great they perform in zone targetted by multiple players.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
hi! wb again philly! now do my accolades RAWR!
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Originally Posted by Smallzies
hi! wb again philly! now do my accolades RAWR!
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Lol Masque still hasn't sweet talked me into re-uping my sub >.>
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
Lol Masque still hasn't sweet talked me into re-uping my sub >.>
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Last time he talked about sweet things (read as: ice cream) he got in trouble!
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ROFLMAO he totally was calling me fat! he deserved to get in trouble!
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Originally Posted by Madame Pistacio
Last time he talked about sweet things (read as: ice cream) he got in trouble!
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"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
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mask determines whether you play the game or not anymore? >.> <.< so much power...
Something came up at the last minute. I'll be about an hour late, tonight.
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Sadly it seems that real life is conspiring against R-Tech and I making it tonight. Hopefully we don't miss MP's PvP Coup... or was that supposed to be secret?
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Originally Posted by Ska-Core
Sadly it seems that real life is conspiring against R-Tech and I making it tonight. Hopefully we don't miss MP's PvP Coup... or was that supposed to be secret?
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Dooom.
Good job to the following people for participating in the PvP build challenge:
War-nugget
EagleEyez
Hemm
Neuronia
Gristlebone
Epoxyman
Zatch
General Lieutenant
Strike K
Madame Pistacio
Tanknation
Account wise I'm here till June 11th