Thoughts on honoring...
By
AmazingMOO,
Posted on: 2011-03-15 23:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Only if they are Rad/Rad.
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Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
 Inappropriate? Too tasteless? |
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I don't think it's inappropriate nor tasteless (the general idea. Individual concepts may change said opinions, hehe).
You do what you do, and what you can, and what you feel is okay.
Fictional heroic icons can be a wonderful expression of compassion... And serve as a wonderful boon of inspiration.
For me, seeing such tributes just gets a thumbs up and fills my heart a bit with shared compassion/concern.
Anyway, blah blah blah, hehe... Of course, people can be offended by anything. Best find your own beliefs, stick to them and be at peace with the fact that not everyone will agree.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Personally? Yeah, I think using a real world tragedy that affects hundreds of thousands of real people to add some spice to your pretendy funtime games is a pretty damn selfish thing to do.
It's hard enough to remember that something happening on the other side of the planet, to people outside your monkeysphere, that you will only ever see on your computer screen between watching the new episode of Fringe and your Weekly TF Run, is actually a real thing that happens. Trying to treat it as another Rikti Invasion is just going to make it feel even more unreal.
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Ouch, Gale! That looks like a pretty harsh condemnation (and generalization about) your fellow players.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Considering the Disaster Trifecta that Japan currently has going in the real world, I'd imagine that CoX Sendai probably has a giant monster attacking it as well.
Personally, I'd say do what makes you feel better. The most that the average US citizen can do is contribute a few dollars to Red Cross or a similar organization and then hope that the money actually helps relief efforts. If making a commemorative hero helps a person come to grips with the real world event and feel like they are doing something about it thereby, I see no harm.
Put a blurb in the character's info box about how to text money to relief efforts and you might even do some good if someone reads it and takes action themselves.
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Yeah, it's a general "you"... more of a "me" you than a "you guys" you. ...and thus inaccurate, since I don't watch Fringe.|
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Ouch, Gale! That looks like a pretty harsh condemnation (and generalization about) your fellow players.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it. |
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| Personally, I'd say do what makes you feel better. |
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Again, ouch!|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
If the only way you can feel better about a disaster is to wonder how your imaginary character would react to it, I can only say: feel better soon.
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Different perspectives, maybe. To me, this falls under, "I donated money and I'm watching yet another video of people fleeing tsunami and hearing about how the death toll has doubled again. I wish I could do more."
I don't see that commemorating the event in a game is a bad choice as your "more". Some random googling shows people on Another Super Hero Game's forum grappling with similar issues of feeling like doing "something" inside their game, even if that something doesn't actually change the real world and mostly just makes the actor feel like they have taken some positive action.
You seem to be seeing it more as a way for people to dismiss reality and go back to their computer generated fantasy without having to deal with any guilt or horror from the real world events.
But like I said, maybe I'm reading too much into your condemnation.
Yeah, I mean... addressing it or not addressing it, if you're (the universal you/me/us) sitting at a computer indulging any casual pastime, you're deluding yourself, ignoring realities of greater things you could be doing, etc.
No current incidents change that.
I'm not advocating bringing it into the game, but I also don't see either way (including it into your make-believe or ignoring it) as inherently wrong.
We should all turn off our computers and go out and help someone.
There.
We're all a bunch of jerks, ignoring reality and dodging greater responsibilities (no matter what we've done while we're not playing).
Hehe 
I've wondered... with the Japanese workers currently doing their best in the nuclear power plants... when would it be okay to pay tribute to them by converting their heroism into the realm of fantasy?
I, personally, don't think these things are really time-sensitive, but I understand that different people have different feelings and all.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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And I'm not looking to harp on your words here, Silver Gale. I get the impression that you are just honestly speaking out of a mindset of respect and perspective of grave realities... And I, personally, endeavor to stick to such things as well.|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
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If the only way you can feel better about a disaster is to wonder how your imaginary character would react to it, I can only say: feel better soon. |
However, I do think that that comment is wrong.
I'm an artist, poet and a songwriter.
If I paint, write a poem or record a song that is inspired by such events... If it is part of my process in digesting these things... if it is part of my process of sharing my feelings...
Is that really any different than any other creative outlet that another person chooses to pursue and display feelings and thoughts on such complex matters?
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
My partial understanding is that the using the real names of people, especially when they are still living, is somewhat offensive to the Japanese. (I don't understand the specifics, so please feel free to correct me.)
I don't really understand how they feel about the flag imagery.
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*nod*| Different perspectives, maybe. To me, this falls under, "I donated money and I'm watching yet another video of people fleeing tsunami and hearing about how the death toll has doubled again. I wish I could do more." |
I keep thinking, especially about the folks working in the reactor, those are people just like me, in a bad situation, on the worst trouble call of their lives. They've been told 'You're getting a higher dose than you ever signed up for. Your life and health are in danger. We can't ask you to continue this,' and have answered, 'Yep. So let's get this thing fixed already.'
I could give my life savings to the Red Cross and it wouldn't make up for that.
It certainly doesn't make it any better in the real world for me to change my video game character's costumes, but still I don't want to forget that feeling.
Well, I have a couple of Japanese characters and one wears a flag-inspired costume, so I hope it's not found to be offensive. I made the character over 2 years ago and would hate to delete her costume now.
Est sularis oth Mithas
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Why translate it to the game at all? o.O CoH Earth isn't Real Earth.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Yeah, I mean... addressing it or not addressing it, if you're (the universal you/me/us) sitting at a computer indulging any casual pastime, you're deluding yourself, ignoring realities of greater things you could be doing, etc.
No current incidents change that. I'm not advocating bringing it into the game, but I also don't see either way (including it into your make-believe or ignoring it) as inherently wrong. We should all turn off our computers and go out and help someone. There. We're all a bunch of jerks, ignoring reality and dodging greater responsibilities (no matter what we've done while we're not playing). Hehe I've wondered... with the Japanese workers currently doing their best in the nuclear power plants... when would it be okay to pay tribute to them by converting their heroism into the realm of fantasy? I, personally, don't think these things are really time-sensitive, but I understand that different people have different feelings and all. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
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If anyone finds that offensive, they have problems.|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
Well, I have a couple of Japanese characters and one wears a flag-inspired costume, so I hope it's not found to be offensive. I made the character over 2 years ago and would hate to delete her costume now.
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Is Marvel to stop (admittedly he's not shown often) using Sunfire or to stop using Psylocke?
Saddly diasters happen. Your characters are fine. No need to change them.
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The BrandX Collection
There are plenty of people in your own town or county who need help. Help them if you want to do more than writing checks to people on the other side of the planet. Charity should not be subject to the "disaster of the month".
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It gives me the creeps.|
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
Inappropriate? Too tasteless? |
But play whatever you enjoy playing.
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
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Because you think the costumes suck? Or because you to have to wonder why heroes would change their hero attire because of this disaster?|
Originally Posted by Freem
It gives me the creeps.
But play whatever you enjoy playing. |
And then wonder, why they change the outfits for Japan, but didn't for Kings Row being blown to bits by PRaetorians? (Yes I know one is RL and one is fictional...but the characters wouldn't know that).
Also, who says this happened in CoH Earth?
Now could be froma non-RP perspective, but then I think, the costumes look rather bland (and when I say that, I'm not saying mine are all that).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
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Yeah... it's why I don't ever plan on bring it up again outside of this place...
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Personally? Yeah, I think using a real world tragedy that affects hundreds of thousands of real people to add some spice to your pretendy funtime games is a pretty damn selfish thing to do.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I guess I shouldn't have WWII- and US-Civil-War-inspired characters, by that logic? And out of respect, we should all refrain from running the Terra Volta trial.|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Personally? Yeah, I think using a real world tragedy that affects hundreds of thousands of real people to add some spice to your pretendy funtime games is a pretty damn selfish thing to do.
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
It's hard enough to remember that something happening on the other side of the planet, to people outside your monkeysphere
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
We should all turn off our computers and go out and help someone.
There. We're all a bunch of jerks, ignoring reality and dodging greater responsibilities (no matter what we've done while we're not playing). |
The relevance of this is, the people stopping by to berate me for "wasting time" on the suffering of animals when there are MORE IMPORTANT crises are never, themselves, actually fighting for their own cause at the time they yell at me -- they're usually shopping. There's a wine and beer store right next to the puppy mill protest site, and people would come out with a keg of beer, stop, and berate us for not helping children. Sometimes I'd ask if the beer was for the children.
We're all doing something other than helping, most of the time.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Do I have to specify *recent* tragedy when it should be clear from context? I don't see what Terra Volta has to do with anything, unless when you run it you're RPing that your characters are in Japan helping contain the radiation leaks.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
I guess I shouldn't have WWII- and US-Civil-War-inspired characters, by that logic? And out of respect, we should all refrain from running the Terra Volta trial.
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Suppose for a moment that back in 2001, there was an European-made MMO set in the "present day" and just after September 11th someone made a character whose mutant powers awakened from the shock of losing their family in the WTC attack. Would that strike you as a normal and understandable way of dealing with what they saw in the news?
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The problem becomes, not the tragedy then, but some COMPLETELY arbitrary number in a temporal value. At that point, you can argue 100 years or 100 seconds and it's all equally meaningless.|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Do I have to specify *recent* tragedy when it should be clear from context?
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You want to object to it over the issue of the tragedy? Great, fine and wonderful. You want to pull a "too soon"? Find a better reason.
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| Suppose for a moment that back in 2001, there was an European-made MMO set in the "present day" and just after September 11th someone made a character whose mutant powers awakened from the shock of losing their family in the WTC attack. Would that strike you as a normal and understandable way of dealing with what they saw in the news? |
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Nitpick: I know her body is Japanese due to a ridiculous retcon to explain why Jim Lee started drawing her that way, but Psylocke is British. She's the sister of Captain Britain, and was, in fact, Captain Britain herself for a time. She's not a good example of a Japanese national superhero. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
If anyone finds that offensive, they have problems.
Is Marvel to stop (admittedly he's not shown often) using Sunfire or to stop using Psylocke? |
The Sunfire example is good, though.
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Was it a retcon? I thought it was part of her story, that she got the japanese body by going through the siege perilous, and then being boddy swapped with Ravanche.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
Nitpick: I know her body is Japanese due to a ridiculous retcon to explain why Jim Lee started drawing her that way, but Psylocke is British. She's the sister of Captain Britain, and was, in fact, Captain Britain herself for a time. She's not a good example of a Japanese national superhero.
The Sunfire example is good, though. |
I thought that was just part of her story, not a retcon per se.
And yeah, I know she's British, I but she's in a japanese body, so I was just using her as an example.
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This is more or less what the poster in That Other Game's forum was proposing.|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Do I have to specify *recent* tragedy when it should be clear from context? I don't see what Terra Volta has to do with anything, unless when you run it you're RPing that your characters are in Japan helping contain the radiation leaks.
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Suppose for a moment that back in 2001, there was an European-made MMO set in the "present day" and just after September 11th someone made a character whose mutant powers awakened from the shock of losing their family in the WTC attack. Would that strike you as a normal and understandable way of dealing with what they saw in the news?
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I want to emphasize that I'm not picking a fight with you here, Gale. Each of us has his or her own level of tolerance for various things and clearly where one person might see this action as something commemorative, you see it as diminutive (though I'm not real clear on why you see it as pathological).
The place where you draw the line of "recent" is likewise a personal one. 9/11 was nearly ten years ago now but I'll wager that there are many who would still consider it too "recent" to be eligible for using in an origin story while there are others who are not emotionally invested in it enough to be concerned about it.
Hurricane Katrina. Three Mile Island. Chernobyl. Indonesia. Are any of these eligible? Is it pathological to want to express a strong emotional response to any real-life catastrophe in a game or through some kind of personal expression?
If an artist is inspired by the Japan disaster to create art and profit from it, is that a raising of awareness or exploitation? What if she donates proceeds to relief organizations?
If Moo's original question somehow involved doing exactly the same thing as far as creating commemorative heroes but it also in some fashion generated revenue that was donated to the cause of disaster relief, would THAT be pathological? I don't know how that might happen; it doesn't really matter. Let's say s/he offered to design costumes for people at five bucks a pop and the proceeds were donated, so that people sporting those costumes could say "Look, I helped Japan!"
Considering game companies that are selling in-game commemorative items whose proceeds are used in this fashion, this isn't such a far-fetched idea. As far as that goes, if I go into Ravenwood Fair and buy a buddha statue for my fair and LolApps donates that revenue to Japan relief, would that be pathological? It's still mixing happy, funtime games with serious real world trauma.
If Paragon Studios offered a Japanese themed costume pack tomorrow for $5 with all proceeds going to disaster relief, would you buy one? Would it be offensive?
Suppose a supergroup posted the following:
"Let's show our support for Japan by filling Freedom Square with heroes bearing a red sun symbol. We'll gather at thus-and-such date and time and take a screenshot showing our solidarity with the Japanese people."
Good? Bad? Offensive? Inoffensive? What about this:
"Let's show our support for Japan by donating $10 to the Red Cross (instructions on donating and specifying Japan relief). As a token of your donation, everyone who donates should add a red sun symbol to their costume. Nobody will police you, so you're on your honor. In a week, we'll gather in Freedom Square and take a screenshot showing all of the people who are standing united with Japan and encourage them to stay strong."
Good? Bad? Offensive? Exploitive? Is it automatically a pathological thing to do just because it involves happy funtime games dealing with a horribly unthinkable real world catastrophe? If it's just one person doing it on their own instead of an organized group, does that somehow turn it from "good" to "pathological"?
It's hard to draw a line in the dirt here and say "this is appropriate but that isn't", especially when every individual has their own emotional response to the catastrophe and their own set of values to measure that response against.
Ah, I see what your problem is.
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You've misunderstood the OP. Both of the characters in that picture are level 50 characters that Moo's had since LONG before any of the events in Japan happened. They're just new costumes on existing characters. Not "I got my powers from the blast in the reactor" characters.
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Suppose for a moment that back in 2001, there was an European-made MMO set in the "present day" and just after September 11th someone made a character whose mutant powers awakened from the shock of losing their family in the WTC attack. Would that strike you as a normal and understandable way of dealing with what they saw in the news?
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@Roderick
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As I remembered reading the first comics after she showed up again, when the X-Men saw her, they did not show any surprise about her being in someone else's body. If it was originally intended for her to have switched bodies, you'd think they wouldn't recognize her. Now, it's been over two decades since I read that comic, so I could be wrong (and as you'll see below it sounds like I must be-- I wish I still had my old x-men comics so I could see exactly when they first commented on it), but I remember learning about Revanche later and saying "what? That doesn't make any sense" instead of "oh, so that's why they didn't recognize her".|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Was it a retcon? I thought it was part of her story, that she got the japanese body by going through the siege perilous, and then being boddy swapped with Ravanche.
I thought that was just part of her story, not a retcon per se. |
However, I've done some googling, and apparently Chris Claremont did indeed intend for her to be changed to look Asian. He just meant for it to have been done through magic and plastic surgery by Mandarin and Spiral. So, the Revanche thing is a retcon, but I was wrong that it was done to explain why Jim Lee started drawing her that way (and to be honest, I didn't even notice that she was supposed to look Japanese when he did it at first, I thought it was just his way of drawing her). Chris had intended for her race to change after emerging from the Siege Perilous, and the Revanche retcon was done for some other reason (maybe they didn't like the magic and plastic surgery thing, I don't know). Then later writers cranked up the convoluted backstory to 11.
Here's the article where Chris says he hates the Revanche thing, and here's one that goes into more detail on everything that was done to her (and claims that her teammates didn't recognize her, which I don't remember at all, but again, that was over 20 years ago).
So anyway, yeah, the Revanche thing was a retcon. But her becoming Asian was actually a decision made by her creator. I don't want to get into an argument about race-changing (those threads ALWAYS get locked), but while it's one thing to retcon a character into being a different race, it's another thing entirely to do it while maintaining their original family members and history. It's... so weird.
For the record, I like the character design of the post-siege perilous Psylocke better than the one from before it. I just think making her physically Japanese was totally unnecessary and bizarre-- having her embrace Japanese culture and training like Wolverine has would have been great, and far less confusing. As much as I thought I loved him as a kid, I've realized that Claremont seems to confuse character development with radical physical and power alterations. I think the whole secondary mutation thing is dumb, too (I realize that was Morrison, but I'm saying I feel the same way about it).
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| And yeah, I know she's British, I but she's in a japanese body, so I was just using her as an example. |
Honestly, though, it was just an excuse to express annoyance at her ridiculous backstory. I hope you aren't taking it as me jumping on you for being "wrong wrong wrong" or anything.
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It sucks, being half a world away and not being able to do a damn thing but lift your checkbook. Meanwhile, real heroes are doing what they do, and need to be remembered, even though we don't and may never know their names.
Inappropriate? Too tasteless?