I'm only into the low 20s on mine but it looks like it is gonna be great fun once I get some decent sets going.
awakened death 50 necro/dark mm, Necrospider 50 Crabspider, Death's Hunter 50 claw/regen stalker, Inhuman-Rampage 50 DM/WP brute, Xander the Protector 50 Kat/sr scrapper, Phantom Force 50 Ill/Rad Controller, Friendly Persuader 50 Inv/Wm tank
Global: @Cinder Spawn
Spintrics, Spindles and Spires. (Sp/Elec, Sp/Da, Sp/Fire). Spintrics are just as capable as the other two in regards to the general idea of outputting damage, the difference comes in their forms of mitigation and survivability. Spintrics have excellent endurance management and can focalize on recharge (Power Sink and Reflexes). Spires are purely offensive, forcing out orange numbers (Burn AoE in the secondary, and Fiery Embrace working with the APP). And Spindles are considered the most "survivable" in their forms of damage mitigation from incoming sources (Oppressive Gloom and Cloak of Fear). With the inclusion of IO's, they can all achieve similar final aspects, each individual build just changes some of the end-goals you might try and strive to fill.
On a personal front, I've never much cared for the look of Fire Armor, but I do have a Spindle (50) and a Spintric (45), although the later I've not put nearly as much late-game time into, nor any IO's. I did have a planned build for a Spintric somewhere, though, S/L Def and Perma-Hasten, pre Incarnate.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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The added bonus of not being able to be sapped by sappers and the new very annoying super stunners is very nice!
"I have always been a fan of science fiction. It all started when my parents forced me to go to church when I was a child."
I have a level 50 Spines/Electric whom I absolutely love.
I am not a numbers person so I can't give you numbers, but you will never be afraid to fight Rikti, Carnies, or Sappers 
The self heal is good, plus you get a simply spendid endurance sucker upper..and then you have Lightning Field
I enjoy the Elec secondary so much I made a Claws/Elec Brute....Carnies are going to run from me shrieking like little girls
Lisa.
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You've got the power
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who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
/Elec is superior to /Dark in terms of damage. Both of them have a damage aura, but Elec Armor gives you extra recharge and endurance management.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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Eh. I'm a dark fan, so it's hard to convince me about that. Beyond the damage auras (which are the same) dark also gets PBAoE damage in Dark Regen, and it has two more auras that can slot damage procs. Does that overcome the recharge advantage of /Elec? Don't know. I expect they're about the same, but I want to try /Elec now.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
/Elec is superior to /Dark in terms of damage. Both of them have a damage aura, but Elec Armor gives you extra recharge and endurance management.
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You can't slot any damage procs in OG, and CoF can only have two damage procs which wouldn't give you much. While you can put a lot of procs into Dark Regeneration, you would be better off spending most of the slots on endurance reduction, accuracy, recharge, and heal. Having your AoE's up sooner and having endless amounts of endurance is simply better.
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
Eh. I'm a dark fan, so it's hard to convince me about that. Beyond the damage auras (which are the same) dark also gets PBAoE damage in Dark Regen, and it has two more auras that can slot damage procs. Does that overcome the recharge advantage of /Elec? Don't know. I expect they're about the same, but I want to try /Elec now.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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If you pull for Recharge in either build, you can end up with the same result in either case. A Spindle can get pretty close to keeping Spine Burst and Throw Spines fast enough that bouncing mob to mob you'll be able to fire them off with minimal delay. Spintrics just get the added bonus of having an additional 20% to get there easier. This doesn't discount either one at being a superior damage dealer. One has better end management is all.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
You can't slot any damage procs in OG, and CoF can only have two damage procs which wouldn't give you much. While you can put a lot of procs into Dark Regeneration, you would be better off spending most of the slots on endurance reduction, accuracy, recharge, and heal. Having your AoE's up sooner and having endless amounts of endurance is simply better.
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Like I said before, it's all about what end result you want to work with. Better mitigation, better damage, or better endurance. The the rest is all just fine print that you can manipulate with IO's.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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End management gives you a lot more than you think. And sure you can build for recharge, but an equally built Elec Armor will have more recharge than you. If you're regularly facing content where you don't need to use your AoE's more than once, then you likely don't need the extra survivability of DA either.|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
If you pull for Recharge in either build, you can end up with the same result in either case. A Spindle can get pretty close to keeping Spine Burst and Throw Spines fast enough that bouncing mob to mob you'll be able to fire them off with minimal delay. Spintrics just get the added bonus of having an additional 20% to get there easier. This doesn't discount either one at being a superior damage dealer. One has better end management is all.
Like I said before, it's all about what end result you want to work with. Better mitigation, better damage, or better endurance. The the rest is all just fine print that you can manipulate with IO's. |
I understand you have your Spines/DA IO'd and your Spines/Elec at 43. This is probably giving you a skewed vision of things.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
i have a lvl 50 spine/elec thats working out really nicely atm, i can run 10 toggles and have 0 end problems and it works really good with the spiritual alpha boost due to the +rech and +heal aspects
i like elec armor not just because of the awesome end management, but because it also doubles as a sapper draining mobs to help with some mitigation
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So far, I'm just missing the Oblit's, Hami-O's, Purples and of course what slots I don't have (like Tactics isn't fully slotted with it's set yet). So yes, I do have the PvP IO in the build (the steadfast and gladiator's are level 10, not 50 like in the build) already).
I notice the difference of just a bit of defense. END management isn't the best YET, but I do think it's something I'll have to keep an eye on with powersink over coming it, but still needing to keep a watchful eye on it.
Powersink works as great mitigation as once they're drained they just hurt you less.
Planning on the ST attack chain of Impale -> Ripper -> Throw Spines which combined with the damage aura (and -resist procs), I believe put me over the 190 DPS (enough for AVs at any rate).
Went the Positional Defense route, as S/L Defense with just one ST attack seemed to be wasted.
Also, the build I'm sure can be a bit better, but I took concept needed powers. I only skipped Build Up, because I needed the room for power picks!
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
End management gives you a lot more than you think. And sure you can build for recharge, but an equally built Elec Armor will have more recharge than you. If you're regularly facing content where you don't need to use your AoE's more than once, then you likely don't need the extra survivability of DA either.
I understand you have your Spines/DA IO'd and your Spines/Elec at 43. This is probably giving you a skewed vision of things. |
Not really. A well managed Spindle (in the endurance department) is no different than a well managed Spintric. There's also only so much recharge you can cram into a power before you're just beating a dead horse. If I make Spine Burst and Throw Spines pop back fast enough that I can bounce from mob to mob with minimal downtime on both, the Spintric just requires 20% less effort to do it, but it can be equally done on both. It just comes down to one being able to do it more easily than the other, which gives you an opportunity to build into other aspects instead. Toemaytoh, Toemahtoh. They're all fundamentally the same toons, they just have different starter-stats to get to the same goal: AoE en Mass.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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Why /Electric? I think you are giving up a lot by not taking /Fire for Burn and Fiery Embrace. If you just want to be different, I can understand, but I would rather have the best and impress people with my build and skills.
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You're missing the point. The endurance management lets you fit more offense/defense in your build(instead of building for endurance). You're also completely ignoring the fact that the faster your AoE's cycle the more efficient you are at dealing AoE damage(as long as you don't have a complete attack chain). If it's enough for you, that's great. But don't ignore the numbers.
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Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Not really. A well managed Spindle (in the endurance department) is no different than a well managed Spintric. There's also only so much recharge you can cram into a power before you're just beating a dead horse. If I make Spine Burst and Throw Spines pop back fast enough that I can bounce from mob to mob with minimal downtime on both, the Spintric just requires 20% less effort to do it, but it can be equally done on both. It just comes down to one being able to do it more easily than the other, which gives you an opportunity to build into other aspects instead. Toemaytoh, Toemahtoh. They're all fundamentally the same toons, they just have different starter-stats to get to the same goal: AoE en Mass.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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You're talking in circles. Try posting a build you consider vastly superior in damage output. I'm having are really hard time believing Lightening Reflexes will have the massive impact you are claiming.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
You're missing the point. The endurance management lets you fit more offense/defense in your build(instead of building for endurance). You're also completely ignoring the fact that the faster your AoE's cycle the more efficient you are at dealing AoE damage(as long as you don't have a complete attack chain). If it's enough for you, that's great. But don't ignore the numbers.
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I absolutely love my Spines/Electric. He runs 11 toggles simultaneously and never runs out of endurance. I farm at +3/X6 with him and while I have more effective farmers, he's FUN. Electric is an excellent choice and a rival for Fire and Dark. While Dark has a lot more tools in the tool box and Fire has a decent endurance recovery power, nothing matches the sheer ridiculousness of being able to have a toon with 11 toggles NONE of which are slotted for endurance. Between the endurance reduction in your heal and Power Sink you are golden.
There are many, many tips on spines.
Have been interested in the combo for awhile now, however, think I may wait until spines get proliferated to brutes(please)
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/this x1000, i would almost immediatly reroll my lvl 50 spine/elec scrapper for a spine elec brute if they proliferated it
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Have been interested in the combo for awhile now, however, think I may wait until spines get proliferated to brutes(please)
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
You're missing the point. The endurance management lets you fit more offense/defense in your build(instead of building for endurance). You're also completely ignoring the fact that the faster your AoE's cycle the more efficient you are at dealing AoE damage(as long as you don't have a complete attack chain). If it's enough for you, that's great. But don't ignore the numbers.
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I'm not missing anything. You're not listening. You build a Spines to fire flawless Spine Burst > Throw Spines, if one is */Elec and one is */Da but both end up with the same numbers, then there's still no difference between the two of them other than */Elec got to it without needing to find 20% from somewhere else. Between IO's and Incarnate abilities, you can't cut and dry that one Spines/* is far superior than another, there's far too many ways to answer any issue that one build has versus another.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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Originally Posted by John_Printemps
I'm not missing anything. You're not listening. You build a Spines to fire flawless Spine Burst > Throw Spines, if one is */Elec and one is */Da but both end up with the same numbers, then there's still no difference between the two of them other than */Elec got to it without needing to find 20% from somewhere else. Between IO's and Incarnate abilities, you can't cut and dry that one Spines/* is far superior than another, there's far too many ways to answer any issue that one build has versus another.
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| You're talking in circles. Try posting a build you consider vastly superior in damage output. I'm having are really hard time believing Lightening Reflexes will have the massive impact you are claiming. |
Starting a build war will do this thread no good.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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You are still making generic statements. In order to give any credence to those statements, you're going to have to back it up with actual numbers. Electric Armor doesn't add any damage to your Spines attacks. Unless you can provide recharge values that Dark Armor cannot achieve and/or sustain then your claims are meaningless. Their are dozens of ways for a Dark Armor build to resolve it's endurance issues, none of which require sacrificing recharge. In fact, some of those options actually improve global recharge.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
I'm not saying one is vastly superior to the other in damage output, Elec Armor and Dark Armor are quite close. However, the base recharge and endurance management of Elec let you reach higher levels of offense. Simply put, DA needs to spend slots on endurance and recharge to reach Elec's baseline. Elec can spend those same amount of slots to get more offense. Also, Spine Burst and Throw Spines aren't the only AoE's in your arsenal that benefit from recharge. Fire Ball comes to mind.
Starting a build war will do this thread no good. |
The advantage of extra recharge and easy endurance management allows to Electric Armor to make up it's lack of survivability. While Dark Armor works harder for recharge and endurance, Electric Armor needs to beef up it's HP and Defense.
Unless you post concrete values that Spines/Elec can achieve and Spines/Dark Armor cannot, then you'll continue talking in circles.
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No it doesn't. Elec Armor doesn't need to beef up its HP and Defense any more than Dark Armor does. We're talking about damage potential here.| The advantage of extra recharge and easy endurance management allows to Electric Armor to make up it's lack of survivability. While Dark Armor works harder for recharge and endurance, Electric Armor needs to beef up it's HP and Defense. |
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| Their are dozens of ways for a Dark Armor build to resolve it's endurance issues, none of which require sacrificing recharge. In fact, some of those options actually improve global recharge. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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Out of context. I was referring to Electric Armor comparable survivability to Dark Armor. For both Dark Armor and Electric Armor, adding recharge and defense is a good idea. Electric Armor needs more defense as it has none, but benefits greatly from adding HP. Dark Armor has minimal use for additional HP. Both builds benefit greatly from recharge which Dark Armor had none. |
Originally Posted by Auroxis
No it doesn't. Elec Armor doesn't need to beef up its HP and Defense any more than Dark Armor does. We're talking about damage potential here.
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In other words, the difference only affect focus of the build, not the final out come...which is what John_Printemps has been saying from the onset.
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| The same works both ways. There are dozens of ways for Elec Armor to get more recharge and damage, but rely on its endurance management to work, and some of those options actually improve survivability. Here are some examples: the Obliteration PBAoE set, Positron's set, Purple sets, fitting a proc or a recharge enhancement instead of an endurance reduction enhancement, getting the Musculature or Spiritual alpha instead of Cardiac alpha, you can also focus on getting damage bonuses from IO sets instead of getting recovery and recharge(Makos Bite, Touch of Death, Obliteration all increase defense as well as damage). |
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| It looks like I have to talk in circles to get through to you. |
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No doubt both benefit from extra survivability, but they don't need it. When it comes to having more damage, Elec Armor has a higher ceiling than DA.|
Originally Posted by Desmodos
Out of context. I was referring to Electric Armor comparable survivability to Dark Armor. For both Dark Armor and Electric Armor, adding recharge and defense is a good idea. Electric Armor needs more defense as it has none, but benefits greatly from adding HP. Dark Armor has minimal use for additional HP. Both builds benefit greatly from recharge which Dark Armor had none.
In other words, the difference only affect focus of the build, not the final out come...which is what John_Printemps has been saying from the onset. |
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| There is nothing preventing Dark Armor from choosing those same sets. Touch of Death, Obliteration, and Mako's Bite are popular choices for anyone wanting to build Dark Armor for positional defense. It's done routinely. There is nothing stated here that Electric Armor can do that Dark Armor cannot. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
There's a lot of talk and a lot of guides about how Spines/Fire and Spines/Dark are the AoE champions in the scrapper world. But I was looking to make a new scrapper, and I thought Spines/Electric might be just as good. It would have almost all the AoE damage as /Fire and /Dark, but without any of the crippling endurance problems, and some nice benefits of its own such as the global +recharge in Lightning Reflexes.
Does anyone have experience with a Spines/Electric they'd care to share? Does the combination work? Is the aggro you generate with your AoE attacks too much for your electric armor to survive?
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