Being a low level again


Bosstone

 

Posted

So, I got a burr under my saddle to make a Crab Spider, but bring him over to Hero Side on Guardian. Can't make a SoA in Praetoria (which makes sense), so need to start Villain side and work my way over. Got a character idea, wifey made a level pact character to go with him, and we are fleshing out the relationship nicely (he's ordered to protect her, she doesn't like it and isn't fond of taking orders - you get the idea).

With the Praetoria characters we've done, I definitely agreed that there were too many ambushes (or too many that seem to go on forever). Running at -1 also helped there.

But this low level SoA reminds me of a probably bigger issue. +1 spawns at low level. 3 +1 minions at lvl 6 HURT. A lot.

Now, I have my 75 month Vet Badge. No, I'm not saying this to waive my e-peen around. I'm saying that because I have 3 Vet attacks and a pet that buffs me slightly, and acts as a DAOC Warden 1 shot shield. And folks, those advantages help a lot.

Frankly, I'm not sure how the actual new players are doing it. When I have to deal with an EB with my SoA, I have a lot of tools to use - I also bought a temp pet and 2 lvl 2 Red inspirations off the market. Also helped a lot. New players don't know about that. New players also wouldn't know to lower the difficulty.

So, get a team. I can hear that already. Tough to do when there are 6 (yes, 6) villain players on Guardian. On the bright side, there were 27 when I left.

I also don't want to hear about how tough it was at release and how easy new players have it. I was here then. I know how tough it was. You want to know what the toughest thing I have ever done in this game was? Wasn't the ITF, or STF, or Khan, or a Mothership raid when they first came out, or soloing an AV with a Tank, or Duoing Giant Monsters. It was getting a Science Invuln. Tank to lvl 10. Vahz HURT back then. A lot. Why did I put up with it? 2 reasons. #1 - I was a DAOC vet and that's just the way MMO's were then. #2 - I was a FREAKING SUPERHERO. Was I really, well, no, but I looked the part!

Back to the actual point - +1 spawns at low level. Yeah, I know tons of people have complained about it. Sam jumps out at me as one. So, couple of questions that I suspect wont' be answered by a Red name, but no harm trying. Is this working as intended? If somebody runs at the default difficulty, do you intend them to often (not saying everytime) get +1 levels? If so, is Paragon OK with people quitting because of it? Because, you know they do.

Which is a shame, as this game has grown mightily from release.

Edit - wow, that is a wall of text. TLDR version - +1 spawns at low level on default difficulty suck.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetpack View Post
Edit - wow, that is a wall of text. TLDR version - +1 spawns at low level on default difficulty suck.
They can be annoying sometimes, but they've been in the game since Issue 0, so at this point i suspect it's working as intended. Even at the lowest levels i normally don't find +1 enemies that bad except on the occasions where i get a patch of "the RNG hates me". When i've had a really bad run of luck on a lowbie alt i either find a team or go play a different (higher level) alt for a while.

Back before the difficulty settings it was worse since bosses would spawn solo. Personally i find that VEATs aren't the squishiest AT at any level, but later on they do get all sorts borderline overpowered with a moderate investment in IOs.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Set your difficulty to -1.


 

Posted

The thing is yeah, we always had enemies spawning as +1 to the current difficulty, but ever since the difficulty setting revamp, that system was borked.

For example, you could have three minions at +0 or two minions at +1, or a minion and a lieutenant at +0 but just a lieutenant at +1. The +1 mobs were smaller to make up for their increased strength.

With the new difficulty system though, we get three minions at +1 or a minion and a lieut at +1. This is what makes the whole +1 code noticably harder.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandock View Post
Set your difficulty to -1.
Wall of text claims victim #1.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetpack View Post
It was getting a Science Invuln. Tank to lvl 10. Vahz HURT back then. A lot.
I've been running several low level heroes recently and can confirm that Vahzilok still hurt a lot. It's not just the scary toxic damage, but stacking slows when you only have a two or three attack powers is just nasty. I've been keeping a tally of how often I've been defeated by each enemy group and the Vahz are currently easily in the lead.

One of these days I'll get to fight Doctor Vahzilok. One of these days...

OT: the +1 spawns, yeah I've noticed quite a lot of them. I can't recall if it was like that when I started in late 08 - don't think it was because I played awful back then (Hey, is it okay that all my enhancement numbers are red? What do insps do? What is the blue bar for?) and I suppose it could be quite harsh on new players - although after Praetoria just about anything on red or blueside is easy by comparison.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetpack View Post
Wall of text claims victim #1.
What point are you trying to make, here? If the default difficulty is too hard, turn it down.

even level difficulty has spawned even cons and +1s forever and ever, and it's intended to.


@Dysc, on virtue:
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Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxilicious View Post
The thing is yeah, we always had enemies spawning as +1 to the current difficulty, but ever since the difficulty setting revamp, that system was borked.

For example, you could have three minions at +0 or two minions at +1, or a minion and a lieutenant at +0 but just a lieutenant at +1. The +1 mobs were smaller to make up for their increased strength.
Interesting. i never noticed that before. The only spawning behavior i've taken for granted at base difficulty is that most factions spawn some in a mix of 3 minions, or 1-2 minions and 1 lt, or 2 lt. And not all factions follow that rule either.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
Interesting. i never noticed that before. The only spawning behavior i've taken for granted at base difficulty is that most factions spawn some in a mix of 3 minions, or 1-2 minions and 1 lt, or 2 lt. And not all factions follow that rule either.
Hellions do 1 Lt.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silencer7 View Post
What point are you trying to make, here? If the default difficulty is too hard, turn it down.

even level difficulty has spawned even cons and +1s forever and ever, and it's intended to.
My point, which I was trying to not spell out, was that he didn't both to read the post.

2nd paragraph talked about -1 difficulty. Which I used for Praetoria.

The further point was, I know how to deal with this. So do you. But, new players are supposed to know to turn down their difficulty. That's the answer?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetpack View Post
My point, which I was trying to not spell out, was that he didn't both to read the post.

2nd paragraph talked about -1 difficulty. Which I used for Praetoria.

The further point was, I know how to deal with this. So do you. But, new players are supposed to know to turn down their difficulty. That's the answer?
If "the point" of your post was that new people can't figure out how to turn their difficulty down, maybe it should've been expressed in something other than one throwaway sentence at the very end.

I expect new players figure out how to change their difficulty settings the same way the rest of us did, or possibly by reading the new help popups.


@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silencer7 View Post
If "the point" of your post was that new people can't figure out how to turn their difficulty down, maybe it should've been expressed in something other than one throwaway sentence at the very end.

I expect new players figure out how to change their difficulty settings the same way the rest of us did, or possibly by reading the new help popups.
Hell, when i started there were no help pop-ups. Then again there were no difficulty settings either. i had to find out everything by talking to players in game or reading the forums. Uphill both ways. In the snow. With a family of foulmouthed talking lemurs on my back. During the hottest part of the summer.

The help pop-ups are pretty nice. As are the loading screen tips. Other than Praetorian mobs being a bit tougher than the other starting zones i'd say this game is considerably more newb-friendly in its design now than it was at launch.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Not THIS again.

Praetoria isn't significantly harder than any other part of the game.

Being a Vet has nothing to do with it. I practically never take vet powers(mostly because they generally don't match my concepts).

Since GR went live, I have played through its content with nothing but squishy toons. A nin/nin stalker, a DP/Traps Corruptor and an elec/elec dominator. No Vet reward powers on any of them(with the exception of the shield drone pet on my corruptor because of the tech theme...and even then only once I hit level 16).

If you have trouble dealing with Praetoria content at standard difficulty levels(and I turn bosses on as soon as I can hit a Dispatcher btw), then it seems to me all your years as a COX vet have been wasted.

+1 spawns at level 6 are nothing to get excited over. If you have an ounce of common sense and approach the game with something other than a 'If I did it this way once, then it should work this way all the time for all enemies' mentality, that is.

I had someone in another thread tell me that Praetoria was impossible to do with an elec dominator. Turns out they thought skipping their single target immobilize was a good idea...it's really not. So they were trying to go through all the missions with a single hold as their only means of mitigation.

Praetoria is fine if you keep your head and understand the enemies you are facing...it doesn't take Vet powers or special temp powers to get through. Please stop spouting this nonsense.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashman View Post
Not THIS again.

Praetoria isn't significantly harder than any other part of the game.
Did you miss the part where he said he was leveling a VEAT redside? Praet was only a minor mention.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
Did you miss the part where he said he was leveling a VEAT redside? Praet was only a minor mention.
And no one said Praetoria was significantly harder either. At least not that i noticed.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
Did you miss the part where he said he was leveling a VEAT redside? Praet was only a minor mention.
Well explain to me what he's referring to then.

Red and blue haven't changed their low level content in...ever.

You always meet mobs of +1 to your mission in certain missions. For sure you do on redside. And the last time I rolled a blue side toon...which was before GR...I met +1 Vahz in missions in Galaxy City.

And if Praetoria wasn't the main offender in his argument...then I'm wondering what was. Praetoria is likely the place most new players start now that GR is out.

And if it isn't...my point still stands. I practically never take Vet powers unless thematically correct for my toons...which isn't often. And I run squishy low levels all the time with +1 as my default setting as soon as I can get to a Fortunata/Dispatcher/(whatever the guys on blueside are called...I forget).

VEATs are pretty decent at low levels and he duos with his wife. How much trouble could he possibly be getting, and from what?


 

Posted

Back-loading was a pain in the butt, too. You'd fight a sea of green-cons and then get smacked down by the red boss in the back. Of course, back then you fought bosses solo by default. Many were the newb characters that got smacked down by Bonefire, with the Hellion and Skull boss spawn.

I think there are still a couple back-loaded, sorta. One of the Port Oakes missions has green Hellions at the start, anyway.

As for +1s in low-level missions, I wouldn't mind seeing them go away. There could be a Pop Help message at level six or so that says, "Now that you've gotten used to the game a bit, you'll begin to see enemies one level above you in missions."

That way they get a feel for things before facing +1s, and don't think it's a bug when they do.



 

Posted

In my experience, as you get closer to the next level you start getting +1 spawns. I presume that is so when you level inside the mission the enemies stay even-con to you instead of becoming -1s.

I don't recall any times I was only a bub or two into a level and was getting +1s. Every time I ever encountered it I was 7 or more bubs into the level.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

A +1 spawn is meant to be during missions i think and should stay. If we go by the AE which IIRC the devs said they used a similar tool to design arcs, there is an option for the mob difficulty to increase/decrease/level out during the single mission.
This is more than likely the case i think and myself personally agree with the system. As you go deeper into a mission the enemies should be more powerfull and not just your standard entrance guard enemy.

It is tough on a new player i agree, but i think what you've done is compared vet attacks and powers to what it'ld be like without any. When i made a NA account i quickly realised just how much i used those powers in the low level and i thought i'ld die a lot more often. Truth be told . . . . i died less because i was less reliant on the big hitters and more reliant on the fast charging powers that i get at those levels and the buffs/debuffs that are available at that level [backup radio ftw!].
Could you put this down to skill or just luck? I dont know but my point being is that i wish these level differences within missions were more wider. I'ld like the entrance to be guarded by -1s and +0/+1s around the map with +2s/+3s at the final encounter personally but i dont think there is an option for this?


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