Most *Versatile* Powersets/Builds
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-02-21 15:35 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
For me out of my stable of 50s that have "made" it probably my Crab. Good team buffs with double assault double manuveurs, and tactics running. 5 pets running around for good dps with already really good aoe. Decent debuffs in the form of -res, -def and -recharge. Strong enough to take an alpha for just about any spawns including AVs.
The only weakness this toon has I can think of is kinda poor single target dps and no def debuff res.
Yes, i have to say crabs are up there. Sweet buffs, nice debuffs, pets, dmg, toughness. They are just...sweet.
And I for one think ill/cold is a little bit more diverse than an ill/rad, as they are also good buffers, (and better debuffers for the most part imo) But thats more opinion than fact >.<
And to answer the question "how many people out there explicitly build for diversity?" i can say i do not. I almost always build toons do to a few things and do it well...really well. While being "ok" or even really really really really bad at most other activities (this is most evident of my farmer). My diversity is having so many toons :P
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Definitely my Warshade. I've got about 14 different binds that change me between forms, drop me out of a form/execute power/put me back in form, right up to auto targeting a fluffy and using grant invis. There are so many awesome powers to use.
Where to start....
2 Shapeshifts
pets flying around (3 pets pwn)
eclipse and it's awesomeness
TP foe
Recall friend
KB Stun cone
Mini nuke on dead enemy
real nuke
Stygian Circle refilling both bars every 10 seconds
Invis
self rez with invincibility
2 mires
phase shift
grant invis
And of course my personal favourite, the overkill double mire double nuke.
Sunless Mire/Black Dwarf Mire/Grav on minion/Unchain essence/Quasar
^ I've never been more happy than after one of those, even if only bosses and low hp Lts are up after the unchain.
There's just so much to do, i basically do something different every mob, and you need to keep on your toes.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Peacebringer.
/end thread.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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The most versatile character I have is almost certainly my Earth/Storm. I have control (both hard and soft) out the wazoo combined with decent enough damage and a bit of healing.
Now I doubt it's the most versatile character in the game but it's gotta be pretty high up there 
.
Personally I think Cold Domination wins for most versatile buff/debuff powerset.
I'm really, really awful at playing single-focus characters. Even in table-top games, I have to play druids and bards and such.
My experience is that VEATs are versatile, my Fire/Dark Corruptor is able to do a lot, Warshades look quite full of variety (though mine is only level 9), and Doms have some neat tricks.
My first character ever was an Ill/Kin controller, back in pre-order beta. In those days, soloing a controller was safe but incredibly slow. I've never really managed to get into one since I deleted that first one.
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Cold Domination is definitely a strong set, but I don't think its as versatile as some others. It has frostwork which is a relatively unique buff, but it lacks a genuine heal and Benumb and Heat Loss are on very long recharge timers.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Personally I think Cold Domination wins for most versatile buff/debuff powerset.
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Kinetics has mez protection, heal, damage buff, recharge buff, resistance buff, movement buff, regen debuff, damage debuff, recharge debuff, all usable often. I personally think its a more versatile buff/debuff set than Cold Domination. In fact, I think Ill/Kin and Ill/Rad are probably not too far apart. I'm giving the edge to Rad myself mostly because of Mutation, EMP, and Superior Invisibility.
In your opinion, what would make Cold Dominaton not a more powerful set than Kinetics or Radiation, but a more versatile one, in terms of being able to do more different things more effectively under different circumstances?
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Unless versatile includes dealing damage.
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Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
Peacebringer.
/end thread. |
Where to now?
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This is a really challenging question that unfortunately probably doesn't have an answer, even if it sparks some interesting debate. Mainly because a measure of versatility implies that you can measure which categories of things have the most weight. For example, are -ToHit and +Defense one category or two? Is "survivability" a category? Is "able to make teammates survivable while you yourself really aren't" a category? Is "aggroless mezz" a special category separate from mezz? What about "stealth" versus "unsupressable stealth?" Is a "fast recharging cone confuse that ignores Psi defense" different from a "long recharging aggroless radial confuse that ignores positional defense?"
What makes this more complicated is that sometimes the ability to do something combines in a way that makes a power more situational. For example, Hurricane. It's a massive -ToHit debuff mixed with Repel. Do we count these together as a "unique ability to repel things while hard to hit" or is it the ability to affect "-ToHit" and "Repel" individually? Does the fact that no other set has a power with similar characteristics mean it gets more weight?
Other considerations are uniqueness. Cold Domination can do a number of things, but is almost alone in being able to debuff secondary effects. Is this ability one point for uniqueness, or one point for each individual thing it debuffs?
There are also some categories where matters of degree have input into the tally. Ice Control can "do damage" but not generally a whole lot. I happen to think my Ice/Rad troller is extremely versatile, as long as the versatility we're talking about are buffs, debuffs, and control options. Throw a Fire Controller on a team with him and likely at least one of those options goes away (since Ice Slick is Fire Control-ese for "cages here plz tks.")
Even trickier, a set good at several things can sometimes still be shut down by actual circumstances. Fire Controllers are completely neutered by Sonic Dispersion because that power happens to have protection against the only 3 mezzes Fire has. But while creatures with big bubbles are common in the early to mid game, they almost completely disappear later on. And a Fire Controller who wants to could avoid such creatures pretty effectively anyway.
Having teamed with countless number of Ill/Rads over the years, my general opinion is that they are great soloists and mostly unremarkable teammates who I don't really trust to turn the tide. IF you happen to be fighting a very specific kind of end boss they are not bad to have around, but IMO Illusion Control is versatile in the way that Masterminds are. They are very self reliant and have some buffs for the team but I would never count on them for serious crowd control.
Part of this opinion is colored by the sheer popularity of the set; I suspect a lot of very inexperienced people use it because they hear it is "the best Controller combo." If I had, say, Local Man on my team I'd expect better performance. I also deeply suspect most Ill/Rad (and Ill/Cold) characters come to the table with a "solo mindset" anyway, and generally aren't concerned with how they blend with the rest of the team. Some time ago someone wrote that in their opinion they'd rather take Defenders than Corruptors for sort of the same reason; the mentality of people playing that AT tends to be more team focused even if the hard coded powers aren't necessarily that different.
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Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
Peacebringer.
/end thread. |
I like my Peacebringer as well, and I think its kind of a swiss army knife of options while solo, but I've always thought there were two serious limitations on those options. One: they are spread out among lots of different powers, and you tend to run out of slots to make them all effective on a Peacebringer without sacrificing serious solo capability. Two: most of those options are primarily self or solo options, and have less team utility than having a genuine buff/debuff set.
I find myself doing a lot of different random things on my Peacebringer, but that's not quite the same thing as being versatile in my opinion. If you want a very diverse playing experience, Peacebringers might be the winner. But do you think that actually translates into a wide range of solo and team utility overall? Or does it tend to translate more to your own experience being varied rather than your net contribution to the team or solo being varied itself?
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Actually, this is what I've been trying to do with my Thugs/Poison. In my opinion poison is bad, very bad, but it does have a lot of different things. I've been trying to leverage that. Very hard to softcap with elixer of life and antidote by the way, but I wan't what they give, so wierd slotting ahoy.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
But Ill/Rad always seems to me to be "pretty good" at almost everything, except maybe straight damage. Decent control, decent ally support, decent healing, decent foe debuffing - it seems to be strong in lots of things even if its not the best at any of them. It seems to be a very versatile combination, particularly with inventions and epic damage support.
Is it the most versatile? Dunno. What do you all think? What are the most versatile combinations out there for solo and teamed utility? There are some amazing powers and abilities out there that Ill/Rad doesn't touch and never will: Carrion Creepers, Fortitude, Earthquake, Howling Twilight, Against All Odds, Gang War, Soul Extraction - lots of fun and weirdly powerful stuff out there. I've played with most of them, but I haven't leveled every combination out there by any means. From one to 50, solo and task forces, tip mission and end game content, I'm curious to know what people think are the most versatile powerset combinations out there: the ones with the most variety of utility and solo capability. Its a twist on min/maxing where the goal is not to be the best at anything, but great at everything, or as good as possible for as many things as possible. I think Ill/Rad can lay claim to being one of the most versatile. Its good with just SOs. It gets really good with inventions. Its good at essentially every level. Its a decent soloer and an excellent team utility combo. I put it to the forums: what combinations can lay equal or superior claim? Doesn't have to be a controller, by the way, although I suspect many of the candidates will be controllers. And a meta question: how many people out there explicitly build for diversity? How many are willing to sacrifice damage or other things to explicitly add something that might only be situationally useful, but you just have to have that utility (for example, no respec of this character is ever going to lack the recall-mutation combination, ever, so long as it exists). |
Thugs has melee damage, ranged damage, gang war, defense debuff, and resist debuff if you slot achilles heel, knock back/down, AoE and ST damage
Poison has holds, slows, defense debuff, resistance debuff, tohit debuff, heal, team toxic and cold resist, and team mez protection
Took leadership, to help bring my pets to the softcap, but I took vengence as well to try it, and is a fun power, that now, I don't wan't to be without.
Doesn't have the variance in control, and dark would definitely be better, but it should be fairly good. Thugs is a beast set with a lot of different strengths. Poison makes me sad, but it has it's tiny fingers in a lot of different things. Not to mention it's cool looking powers.
Dropping some powers would let me softcap more types than just S/L and I could pick up another hold, but the utility is just too valuable in my opinion.
A Thugs MM, in my opinion, has the potential to be good at pretty much anything. It's damage is impressive, and not specific to ST or AoE. While T3 henchmen are pocket tanks. The buff/debuff secondary, is an immense addition to it's utility, and often have control baked in. Definitely Top 5 for versitility in my opinion.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
I have a defense capped Fortunata that has all kinds of goodness going for it: all kinds of control, decent damage, useful team buffs and boatloads of survivability.
Any Permadom is also an amazing all-around character.
Things I hate: Anime. PvP. Lying MMO Developers. Outleveling content. Manga. ED. Comic Store Employees. Anime.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
And a meta question: how many people out there explicitly build for diversity? How many are willing to sacrifice damage or other things to explicitly add something that might only be situationally useful, but you just have to have that utility (for example, no respec of this character is ever going to lack the recall-mutation combination, ever, so long as it exists).
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To answer the second part of your question, what you refer to as diversity I have in the past referred to as "reach." One of the things you frequently hear on the boards is that a certain set has or does not have "synergy" with another set. For example, I have occasionally been told that Ice Control's Arctic Air is a poor power to combine with say, /Empathy, because Empathy is "a ranged set." The fact that AA and Empathy are individually useful does not seem to be something that some people weigh. For it's part, Resurrection is not a power that I think has "synergy" with any powerset (except maybe something with Vengence), but it definitely adds "reach" to any of them.
This is not to say that every instance of claimed "synergy" does not result in a somewhat more powerful character, just that a lot of people overlook "reach" as a consideration. It's particularly common to see in threads where people claim to be "a ranged Blaster only," or "primarily a melee Controller," whereby a person locks onto a specific "synergy" and possibly hurts themselves overall when they run into a situation they don't have the "reach" to cover, e.g. not being able to run in and blap a boss down even when the situation happens to be safe enough to open that opportunity.
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Part of the reason for posing the question is to see what people think about this in general. I'm not fishing for alt ideas, so this is not a "who's best" sort of thing. I would really like to know, for different people, when you think about a character or alt or powerset combination that you personally think hands you the most options for dealing with the most kinds of situations credible, what sets do you think of, and specifically what powerset combination.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
This is a really challenging question that unfortunately probably doesn't have an answer, even if it sparks some interesting debate. Mainly because a measure of versatility implies that you can measure which categories of things have the most weight. For example, are -ToHit and +Defense one category or two? Is "survivability" a category? Is "able to make teammates survivable while you yourself really aren't" a category? Is "aggroless mezz" a special category? What about "stealth" versus "unsupressable stealth?"
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Its not so much about a checklist, as what those tools give you. Flash arrow has -tohit, but I don't think that's in the same category as radiation infection as a tool. But Flash Arrow can reduce accidental aggro, and that's a situationally useful tool. Most teams don't need it, some do. Some teams can make good use of having rezzes available, others not. Sometimes EMP is just for showing off, but sometimes it can be a lifesaver. I think of versatility in terms of both the number of tools and also their strength, but mostly in terms of the number of different kinds of good and bad situations for which I have a tool that can materially help.
Other people might have a totally different perspective; I want to hear what that might be.
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Having teamed with countless number of Ill/Rads over the years, my general opinion is that they are great soloists and mostly unremarkable teammates who I don't really trust to turn the tide. IF you happen to be fighting a very specific kind of end boss they are not bad to have around, but IMO Illusion Control is versatile in the way that Masterminds are. They are very self reliant and have some buffs for the team but I would never count on them for serious crowd control. Part of this opinion is colored by the sheer popularity of the set; I suspect a lot of very inexperienced people use it because they hear it is "the best Controller combo." If I had, say, Local Man on my team I'd expect better performance. I also deeply suspect most Ill/Rad (and Ill/Cold) characters come to the table with a "solo mindset" anyway, and generally aren't concerned with how they blend with the rest of the team. Some time ago someone wrote that in their opinion they'd rather take Defenders than Corruptors for sort of the same reason; the mentality of people playing that AT tends to be more team focused. |
You mentioned turning the tide. When things are really looking like the team is about to wipe, I pop an EMP. EMP will take out everything including bosses for a very long time in a huge area. Its a game-changing mez. I once used it long ago to save a sewer trial that was going south by literally paralyzing half the Rikti in the area while the entire rest of the team was wiped, and I had enough time to rez two players while Emp kept them mezzed, both Empathy defenders, who were able to kick start the team by rezzing the others and starting up a heal/buff bubble. However, that means nothing if you aren't carrying blues to mitigate its temporary end drain, or can't make good use of the time healing everyone to full or rezzing, or most importantly if you don't take the power. Some do, but I suspect most don't because its not a spammable power.
So the question should perhaps be, if a player wanted to make a build that was as versatile as possible, and intended to play it by situationally leveraging as many tools as possible in a wide range of different conditions, what would be a good starting point. My Ill/Rad takes every primary and secondary power except for Chocking Cloud and Fallout. In fact, my I19 build (which isn't complete yet, although its getting close) looks like this:
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Yeah, it has a ton of purples and a ludicrous amount of recharge, but in this case recharge helps versatility. My RA cycle time is only about four seconds: that's a lot of healing power. I have a ton of recovery, which helps power a lot of my arsenal at maximum speed for a long time. I've even got a 75 second recharge on EMP: I could use that monster almost every other spawn. I've tried to make a good support character and a tide-turner when that's needed. Not everyone wants to or can go all out like this, but for those that do, and those that want to play like this, what are the better alternatives?
PS: even before I slotted my first IO, I always thought this was my best support character. I think the combo loves IOs, but it was pretty good when it was just SOs and the occasional HO. So I don't think its all just about billion inf inventions making everything equally good at everything.
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I think, if I understand what you're saying, that what I'm calling versatility and what you're calling "reach" are, if not identical things, very closely related things. I consider versatility to be ultimately the tools and the ability to react to a wide variety of new situations or opportunities. Whatever needs to be done, or however the situation changes, versatility lets you deal with that gracefully, or better yet from a position of strength.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
To answer the second part of your question, what you refer to as diversity I have in the past referred to as "reach." One of the things you frequently hear on the boards is that a certain set has or does not have "synergy" with another set. For example, I have occasionally been told that Ice Control's Arctic Air is a poor power to combine with say, /Empathy, because Empathy is "a ranged set." The fact that AA and Empathy are individually useful does not seem to be something that some people weigh. For it's part, Resurrection is not a power that I think has "synergy" with any powerset (except maybe something with Vengence), but it definitely adds "reach" to any of them.
This is not to say that every instance of claimed "synergy" does not result in a somewhat more powerful character, just that a lot of people overlook "reach" as a consideration. It's particularly common to see in threads where people claim to be "a ranged Blaster only," or "primarily a melee Controller," whereby a person locks onto a specific "synergy" and possibly hurts themselves overall when they run into a situation they don't have the "reach" to cover, e.g. not being able to run in and blap a boss down even when the situation happens to be safe enough to open that opportunity. |
I don't think synergy and "reach" are intrinsicly mutually exclusive, although the single minded pursuit of one can cause you to easily destroy the other.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I think, if I understand what you're saying, that what I'm calling versatility and what you're calling "reach" are, if not identical things, very closely related things. I consider versatility to be ultimately the tools and the ability to react to a wide variety of new situations or opportunities. Whatever needs to be done, or however the situation changes, versatility lets you deal with that gracefully, or better yet from a position of strength.
I don't think synergy and "reach" are intrinsicly mutually exclusive, although the single minded pursuit of one can cause you to easily destroy the other. |
Agreed. Just a terminology difference. Sorry I wasn't more clear about that. What I meant to say is that "yes I keep versatility in mind, but I call it something else."
However, I should note that in the consideration of reach, I also consider factors like "do these powers add up in a way that benefits from itself overall?" I actually recently dropped EMP from my Ice/Rad after having it for about a year. I may try to fit it in again later, but I didn't use it enough as it was. It's actually somewhat more useful to me occasionally die and be able to survive more fights on average than take it and survive the odd emergency, especially when many emergencies are, ironically, created by having too many holes in order to fit in odd powers.
My Elec/Storm / Leviathan controller
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- GladNet-Acc/Hold(A), GladNet-Acc/Rchg(3), GladNet-Rchg/Hold(3), GladNet-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(5), GladNet-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(5), GladNet-Dam%(11)
Level 1: Gale -- KBDist-I(A)
Level 2: Chain Fences -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(17), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(19), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(19), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(21), Ragnrk-Knock%(45)
Level 4: Snow Storm -- TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(45), ImpSwft-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(46)
Level 6: Jolting Chain -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg(7), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(7), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(9), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(11)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(13), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(13), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(15), P'Shift-End%(17)
Level 10: Steamy Mist -- GA-3defTpProc(A), GA-End/Res(21), GA-Res/Rech/End(46), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 12: Static Field -- FtnHyp-Sleep(A), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(23), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(23), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(25), FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(25)
Level 14: O2 Boost -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Freezing Rain -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), ImpSwft-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(45), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(48), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(48)
Level 18: Paralyzing Blast -- UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(43), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(43), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(43)
Level 20: Hurricane -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(40), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(40), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(42), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(42)
Level 22: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(27), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(27), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(31), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(33), CoPers-Conf%(33)
Level 28: Thunder Clap -- Amaze-ToHitDeb%(A), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(29), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(29), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(31), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(31)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Gremlins -- S'bndAl-Dmg(A), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(33), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), S'bndAl-Acc/Rchg(34), S'bndAl-Dmg/EndRdx(34), S'bndAl-Build%(37)
Level 35: Tornado -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(36), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(36), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(37), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(37)
Level 38: Lightning Storm -- GJ-Dam/End/Rech(A), GJ-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(39), GJ-Acc/End/Rech(39), GJ-Dam/Rech(39), GJ-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Water Spout -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Shark Skin -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Tactics -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- Empty(A)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Code:
Paralyzing Blast can be entirely replaced upon preference. Don't really need to use it but once a week.
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I do agree with you that the lack of a solid heal in Cold Domination is it's major weakness compared to other sets. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Cold Domination is definitely a strong set, but I don't think its as versatile as some others. It has frostwork which is a relatively unique buff, but it lacks a genuine heal and Benumb and Heat Loss are on very long recharge timers.
Kinetics has mez protection, heal, damage buff, recharge buff, resistance buff, movement buff, regen debuff, damage debuff, recharge debuff, all usable often. I personally think its a more versatile buff/debuff set than Cold Domination. In fact, I think Ill/Kin and Ill/Rad are probably not too far apart. I'm giving the edge to Rad myself mostly because of Mutation, EMP, and Superior Invisibility. In your opinion, what would make Cold Dominaton not a more powerful set than Kinetics or Radiation, but a more versatile one, in terms of being able to do more different things more effectively under different circumstances? |
On the other hand I disagree with you about the overall versatility of Kinetics. It's a good set but I don't really consider it to be versatile. It's primary strength (IMHO) is that it makes everyone else's powers work better. It provides large amounts of recharge and damage which are always useful to have and do make teams more effective but it can only make existing powers more effective and in gneeral is slightly lacking in terms of damage mitigation. It is also lacking in -regen compared to other debuff sets (it only has -50% compared to -500% or -1000% which does make a big difference against an AV which is where -regen matters).
The reason I consider Cold Domination to be the most versatile buff/debuff set is that I think it provides an excellent mix of buffs and debuffs in a way that plays to the strengths of both buffs and debuffs. The defensive abilities are primarily buffs (which are superior to debuffs for dealing with alpha strikes) while the offensive powers are more focused on debuffs (which tend to be more powerful). Against normal groups of enemies it combines defense buffs to mitigate alpha strikes with -recharge to handle sustained damage and an AoE resistance debuff. Against single tough targets it has -regen, -resistance, +defense, and an endurance management power to help keep allies in endurance during a long duration fight (something which can be an issue for certain builds). It also has a stealth power int he set making it easier to get stealth TP capability without sacrificing something else.
The main weaknesses of Cold Domination are:
1. No real healing ability
2. Needs more recharge than other buff/debuff sets (including Traps)
3. It doesn't have a panic button power
Compared to Radiation Emission I think Rad does have the edge on AVs due to better recharge on Lingering Radiation and the fact that Enervating Field is a toggle but against groups of enemies I think Sleet wins out due to having defensive buffs (as compared to devuffs) and having it's offensive powers as AoE clicks instead of toggles. As the amount of recharge a character has increases the utility of Cold Domination goes up faster than Rad which is why I tend to give it the edge.
Quote:
A couple of questions:|
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
My Elec/Storm / Leviathan controller
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1. One thing I haven't yet taken for a test drive is a chain confuse with contageous confusion slotted in it. Does the proc have a chance to mass confuse with every jump? I thought it would but I'm not 100% certain.
2. Do you find Conductive Aura and Hurricane counterproductive?
3. I noticed that O2 boost wasn't slotted at all. Was that an oversight, or do you really just not use often enough to matter?
4. What do you think are the biggest strengths of the build? To me, it looks designed for heavy control.
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Even though it's not my main, I'd have to say that my Mind/Ice/Fire Dom is my most versatile character.
It's has a wide range of both hard and soft controls (lacking only stuns and immobilize). Even when Domination is down there is a tool to quickly stop a Boss that isn't mez resistant. Stackable sleeps, stackable holds, stackable confuses. I can't remember running into anything that I wasn't able to control in one way or another.
Multiple damage types so that if I run into something that has resists I have a different damage type to throw it's way. (Psi, Cold, Fire, Smashing, Lethal)
Permadom (which isn't all that difficult to get with this combination) increases performance by a magnitude or 2 and yeilds a ranged using squishy with permanent mez protection and nearly unlimited endurance.
It can handle and survive nearly any encounter that the dev created content can throw it's way and on the highest difficulty settings.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
1. Yes, chance to mass confuse with every jump. So I have been told.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
A couple of questions:
1. One thing I haven't yet taken for a test drive is a chain confuse with contageous confusion slotted in it. Does the proc have a chance to mass confuse with every jump? I thought it would but I'm not 100% certain. 2. Do you find Conductive Aura and Hurricane counterproductive? 3. I noticed that O2 boost wasn't slotted at all. Was that an oversight, or do you really just not use often enough to matter? 4. What do you think are the biggest strengths of the build? To me, it looks designed for heavy control. |
2. Not quite all the time, particularly against Swords / AVs. Hurricane is there to take the alpha (with super speed) and herd mobs up. The debuff lasts for a solid 10 seconds. Then it is detoggled and I end drain. Or, for encounters like the end of the first mission in Apex TF or the last battle of BSF, I keep 'Cane on all the time and catch the groups of adds as they spawn to minimize the impact to the group.
3. I have the Endrdx / Heal HO in O2 boost. I mainly use it for mez protect ( without hold) if needed, or if I can top someone off.
4. The set is designed for heavy control of all types. Storm is not the best endurance drainer though, by far. I concentrated on Slows in my powers so that if the amount of mobs exceeds the target cap as can happen often, mobs that can't be immobed will at least be hit with the slows. Thunderclap is there in case some like-minded stormie or PB took their AE stun so we could combine them to stun bosses (which I hope people will do for BAF). Chain Fences offered the most end-drain potential considering the other ST chain powers only end-drain the first target, so I slotted that with the end mods. Bosses are targeted with Jolting Chains and Synaptic Confusion to further ensure their recovery is low.
It turns out my pseudopets work pretty well during the BM fight in Apex and during the Director 11 fight as they cannot be damaged. Considering I do not have a source of -kb on my own, on regular mobs, I usually do not use Tornado but will use Water Spout. That changes if I am in a very tight cave though :3.
IIRC, at the time I made the build, Gremlins could not be slotted for end-mod even if I wanted to. The psionic defense is appealing, though, because that is not granted through FF / Cold bubbles.
Also, static field works as a sort of team End Recov of sorts as it gives pulses of Endurance to those who stand in it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
A couple of questions:
1. One thing I haven't yet taken for a test drive is a chain confuse with contageous confusion slotted in it. Does the proc have a chance to mass confuse with every jump? I thought it would but I'm not 100% certain. 2. Do you find Conductive Aura and Hurricane counterproductive? 3. I noticed that O2 boost wasn't slotted at all. Was that an oversight, or do you really just not use often enough to matter? 4. What do you think are the biggest strengths of the build? To me, it looks designed for heavy control. |
My Elecs aren't high enough to try Contagious Confusion, but my Ice Controllers loooove it. The fact that it can be put into a power that is autohit is just gravy. The main challenge is just surviving the enemies long enough to play tank. Recently made easier thanks to Cardiacs letting Ice Controllers run armors they couldn't previous afford. Ice is still not for everyone, but I enjoyed it as a curiosity before alphas and as a decent alternative Controller now.
I did try Elec/Storm on test, and it wasn't my favorite. I have a 50 Earth/Storm and a bunch of other Storms in some midling range. The chaos of Storm mixed with the need to bunch enemies up of Electric bothered me a lot. But it could be I just never figured out how to make it work. It may just be a combo in need of a good advocate to explain to use how to make it work. Tornado and Lit Storm blowing things out of my aura and chains drove me crazy, and putting things in a corner just made it so the aura and chains werent really needed.
Meanwhile, sample shots of Arctic Air action (how much of the confusion is due to the proc is hard to tell, but the answer has to be "at least some of it."):
[P.S. I can, however, postulate on how often Contagious Confusion triggers, because before power customization AA did not show purple confuse bubbles when enemies got confused, but CC did. On a spawn of 8 you can pretty much expect the proc to trigger about once every 30 seconds. Back in the day this used to confuse your PET too, which kind of sucked needless to say. Especially since Jack Frost has a ranged hold.]
Quote:
Lets see:|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I like my Peacebringer as well, and I think its kind of a swiss army knife of options while solo, but I've always thought there were two serious limitations on those options. One: they are spread out among lots of different powers, and you tend to run out of slots to make them all effective on a Peacebringer without sacrificing serious solo capability. Two: most of those options are primarily self or solo options, and have less team utility than having a genuine buff/debuff set.
I find myself doing a lot of different random things on my Peacebringer, but that's not quite the same thing as being versatile in my opinion. If you want a very diverse playing experience, Peacebringers might be the winner. But do you think that actually translates into a wide range of solo and team utility overall? Or does it tend to translate more to your own experience being varied rather than your net contribution to the team or solo being varied itself? |
You can off-tank.
Do damage in Nova.
Limited control in Human, along with additional dps.
If you take medicine pool you can have 2 ally heals (one of which is on an incredible fast recharge and heals for a decent amount) and offer mez protection to squishies, along with an ally rez.
You have reliable knock in most powers that also have a -def debuff.
About the only thing you cant do that would really help a team is add -regen.
Lets not forget cosmic balance.
Along with your self buff/utility powers, I do think that is the definition of versatility.
IO's and frankenslotting has solved the slotting problems associated with khelds. And the alpha slot improves upon that further.
Just my opinion, ymmv.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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My most versatile:
Mind/Psi/Soul permadom, with teleport/stealth/flight
- Has every possible control power in the game, from soft to hard. Hold,fear,stun, immobilize, confuse, sleep, stun, repel, knock. (up) Almost all powers in a consistent magnitude that can lock down anything but a giant monster or Hamidon. (Or reichsman) Add a second control character, and it can lock down giant monsters.
- Has significant self-preservation in drain psyche, if played well. a Mind/ can group enemies up with telekenisis or confusion, then get a saturated drain psyche, which can be permanent given targets.
- Has very good damage, in multiple types, specializing in psychic but has neg. energy and smashing for resistant foes. Ranged, melee, AoE, it has something for each situation.
- Has a means of heightened damage with soul drain
- has a means of excellent stealth, [stealth+freebirdstealth] and can control entire groups from invisibility. This means that foes that could usually see can invisible characters can be put to sleep or turned against each other, using aggro-less controls. Can bring teams past troublesome content with ease.
- has a very good debuff vs. hard targets in drain psyche, which can be permanent if it hits every time.
Its weakness is that it has only indirect team assistance, either by damage, control, or regen debuffs. It is excellent at just about every active damage mitigation, however.
Crab soldier, as mentioned earlier. (especially with leadership pool)
- High defense capabilities, resists mez, resists all damage types
- strong aoe attacks in a variety of damage types possibile
- strong and constant team buffs
- Strong self-heal
- Many diversionary possibilities possible through many pets and a pseudo-pet bomb.
- strong debuff tied into its attacks chain
Weaknesses: light on burst damage, particularly against hard targets. High endurance costs, weak vs. defense debuffs, endurance drains.
Kin/elec defender, electric mastery and leadership pools
- Strong buffing ability
- Strong debuffs
- Excellent endurance drain, can stop all incoming damage with 2-3 sapping powers.
- Multiple holds
- Excellent damage
Weaknesses: low hitpoints, lacks mez protection, significant defenses. Lacks defensive buffs for team.
Bots/forcefield mastermind with medicine/leadership/mace mastery
- Can 'tank.'
- Has good damage
- Has excellent survivability
- Brings the team excellent survivability
- Pets boost survival, bring debuffs and a few soft controls
- Brings mez protection to the team, self,pets
- Can heal small ammounts of damage that penetrate shields
- Can neuter melee enemies with force bubble, control enemy positions with it
- Has a good self-heal on top of strong personal defenses.
Weaknesses: lacks burst damage, direct damage, and strong debuffs.
I've been upgrading some of my alts builds to inherent fitness money-is-no-object I19 builds. For most, I have an idea of what I want to get out of them. I want my MA/SR scrapper to be indestructible, for example. So that's soft-capping, resistances, and a ton of regen. My blaster is going for speed: lots and lots of speed, and primarily ranged combat.
Initially, my thought for my Ill/Rad was "get perma-PA back." But as I played around with the build, I noticed that in some cases I was making decisions less to do that, and more to gravitate to the way I play her, which is that I find that alt to be my best jack of all trades alt. She's good at so many different things that I didn't want to over-optimize one of them to the exclusion of the others. The build takes Mutation, even though that is irrelevant to any speed boost or perma-PA help, and in fact its not helpful to offense either. I simply couldn't part with Mutation, and lose the rez.
Ill/Rad is considered one of the best AV-killers around, and it is (if you build for it) but I've always thought its biggest strength was its diversity, if you build for *that*. In total, my Ill/Rad has, between primary, secondary, power pools, and epic pool:
Indestructible pets
Invisibility
Ally stealth
Ally Rez
AoE Terrorize (Spectral Terror)
Confuse
Holds
Sleep (Blind sleeps adjacent targets)
Defense debuff
Resistance debuff
Damage debuff
Tohit debuff
Regen debuff
Movement debuff
Ally tohit buff (tactics)
Ally defense buff (maneuvers)
PBAoE heal
Emergency PBAoE hold (EMP)
Ally Damage buff
Ally Recharge buff
Ally Recovery Buff
Teleport self (teleport pool)
Teleport Ally (recall ffriend pool)
Probably more stuff I'm overlooking off the top of my head. Its not the best debuffer: I think Trick Arrow does better. Its not the best buffer: Kin and Emp do that better. Gravity has better control, lots of things are more survivable, and lots of controllers deal better damage. In fact, without epic powers Illusion barely *has* damage.
But Ill/Rad always seems to me to be "pretty good" at almost everything, except maybe straight damage. Decent control, decent ally support, decent healing, decent foe debuffing - it seems to be strong in lots of things even if its not the best at any of them. It seems to be a very versatile combination, particularly with inventions and epic damage support.
Is it the most versatile? Dunno. What do you all think? What are the most versatile combinations out there for solo and teamed utility? There are some amazing powers and abilities out there that Ill/Rad doesn't touch and never will: Carrion Creepers, Fortitude, Earthquake, Howling Twilight, Against All Odds, Gang War, Soul Extraction - lots of fun and weirdly powerful stuff out there. I've played with most of them, but I haven't leveled every combination out there by any means. From one to 50, solo and task forces, tip mission and end game content, I'm curious to know what people think are the most versatile powerset combinations out there: the ones with the most variety of utility and solo capability. Its a twist on min/maxing where the goal is not to be the best at anything, but great at everything, or as good as possible for as many things as possible.
I think Ill/Rad can lay claim to being one of the most versatile. Its good with just SOs. It gets really good with inventions. Its good at essentially every level. Its a decent soloer and an excellent team utility combo. I put it to the forums: what combinations can lay equal or superior claim?
Doesn't have to be a controller, by the way, although I suspect many of the candidates will be controllers.
And a meta question: how many people out there explicitly build for diversity? How many are willing to sacrifice damage or other things to explicitly add something that might only be situationally useful, but you just have to have that utility (for example, no respec of this character is ever going to lack the recall-mutation combination, ever, so long as it exists).
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