Influence sink idea -- Collateral damage
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2011-02-11 13:35 in Suggestions and Ideas
Quote:
To be clear--is this a mandatory "You did X amount of damage, it is deducted from your reward" or an optional thing?|
Originally Posted by McBoo
Fighting could possibly cause damage to the environment (splash damage from AoEs, players and mobs colliding with objects when knocked back, direct environmental damage from powers like Foot Stomp, Burn, Fault, etc.) and characters will be responsible for any collateral damage that they caused and pay for it with influence, infamy and information.
^ |
Either way, I don't see it being a popular feature. It essentially penalizes any players that use AoE attacks a lot--namely blasters and controllers.
So. I'm sent with my Fire/SS tank to hunt Carnies, for instance. They spawn in a good size group. Fighting them, basically every non single target attack costs me?
No, thanks.
Quote:
Actually single target attacks that cause knockback could cost you as well. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
So. I'm sent with my Fire/SS tank to hunt Carnies, for instance. They spawn in a good size group. Fighting them, basically every non single target attack costs me?
No, thanks. |
Again, the numbers would need to be tweaked to find a happy medium of risk versus reward, also bear in mind that INF is plentiful at the level that you start getting sent to hunt Carnies.
^
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Quote:
The amount isn't the issue at this point, it's the fact that every attack is costing me. And if you want a level it *does?* Level 6. Kheldians get Nova. PBs do knockback, Nova has two AOE attacks. Yeah. No thanks.
|
Originally Posted by McBoo
Actually single target attacks that cause knockback could cost you as well.
Again, the numbers would need to be tweaked to find a happy medium of risk versus reward, also bear in mind that INF is plentiful at the level that you start getting sent to hunt Carnies. |
Quote:
Not every attack, only those that cause collateral damage. Avoiding collateral damage just adds a new wrinkle to the game. The main idea is to create an influence sink of some sort and something like this would be very effective.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
The amount isn't the issue at this point, it's the fact that every attack is costing me. And if you want a level it *does?* Level 6. Kheldians get Nova. PBs do knockback, Nova has two AOE attacks. Yeah. No thanks.
|
^
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Honestly, reducing infamy drop rates globally would do pretty much the same thing. Against it either way, though.
Quote:
It would be very effective in being very annoying, you mean. If I'm running Nova, which as a Kheld I tend to be until the late teens at least, that means *half of my attacks* have the possibility to do damage on its own, and *every* attack has the possibility (as a PB) of doing knockback. At level 6, I'm not making a bunch of INF. I don't particularly want to go to (say) Perez and blast a group of seven Skulls (as I will tend to do) only to have any INF I'd get from fighting them go away because one hit a car, my blast was too close to a bus stop, etc. |
Originally Posted by McBoo
Not every attack, only those that cause collateral damage. Avoiding collateral damage just adds a new wrinkle to the game. The main idea is to create an influence sink of some sort and something like this would be very effective.
|
No. Just no. Not everyone plays the market and casually drops 100 million INF on something. Most of my characters aren't "rich." Collateral damage would do nothing but irritate the hell out of me as I watched my INF go away.
Also, what about teams? If I'm on a team of five, and we have - say - an Energy blaster and a Stormie, they're going to be knocking things back. Does *everyone* get penalized? If so, you've just given reason to not invite (or just kick) people. If not, you're penalizing people for something they have less control over than they normally would (I take aim with my Energy blaster, tank knocks them over, they they go flying - with my blast - into a car I now have to "pay for" instead of the clear area they were originally at.)
You want an INF sink, make it something the players will desire and *willingly* pay, not a punishment for everyone who gets an inch too close to a car or knocks back someone. For instance, reworking INF-Pres costs so it's actually attractive to people to do, more purchaseable (and ready to use) temp powers, making something similar to the "enhancement station," or the hero merit purchase.
I actually find it amusing that people use blanket statements like the ones in the OP and assume everyone's play experience is the same. 
Inf may be plentiful for you but it sure as heck isn't for me. I've been trying to finish my two main builds for close to a year now and I'm always scraping for more Inf. Some of us don't have those mega valuable drops coming out of the yin yang or play the market. Or want to, for that matter. So why should we be penalized?
Horrid suggestion, unless it would be an optional thing in which case I'd have nothing against it.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
Yeah, sorry but no. Bad suggestion is bad.
/Unsigned
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Okay, aside from the fact that the suggestion is a bad one, why would the city hold the heroes they licensed financially responsible for damages caused by us doing our job.
We are no more or less than police officers, as in, we have the same powers and perks as a police officer in Paragon City. If a police officer gets into an accident while in a high speed chase, the city doesn't take the damages out of his paycheck, the city pays for it because it occurred while he was performing the duty his job requires of him.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
If everything (practically) causes collateral damage they could just reduce the amount of inf we get for every kill, it would amount to the same thing.
And besides, why would villains care whether they cause collateral damage?
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
Quote:
How else am I suppose to get they Mayhem timer up to 30 minutes? |
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
And besides, why would villains care whether they cause collateral damage?
|
"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
Quote:
Adding friendly fire would also add a new wrinkle to the game, as well as adding a new wrinkle to the frown lines of every player who has the intention of teaming ever again. This is not a convincing argument.
|
Originally Posted by McBoo
Not every attack, only those that cause collateral damage. Avoiding collateral damage just adds a new wrinkle to the game.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Hmmm, so that's a no then?
Ah well, it seemed like a good idea. *shrug*
^
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Quote:
Not that I'm in support of the idea, but that would fall pretty easily into the whole "don't mess with the Rogue Isles/Arachnos/Lord Recluse" framework of CoV.
|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
And besides, why would villains care whether they cause collateral damage?
|
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
Quote:
Most bad ideas "seemed like a good idea at the time" until you think them through.
|
Originally Posted by McBoo
Hmmm, so that's a no then?
Ah well, it seemed like a good idea. |
My characters - all on Virtue.
Gabe's Internet [censored] Theory
RMT spammers WILL steal your credit card.
Quote:
Recluse can get in line to kiss my shiny metallic butt-plate. I handed him his head - literally- from the future, I can do it in the present with just as much ease. If he really wants to push it, well...one of us has an actual working Super-Weapon...
|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Not that I'm in support of the idea, but that would fall pretty easily into the whole "don't mess with the Rogue Isles/Arachnos/Lord Recluse" framework of CoV.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
Here is a good base philosophy. Working from here, we can all LOVE the Inf sinks, not LOATHE them.
|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
You want an INF sink, make it something the players will desire and *willingly* pay, not a punishment for everyone who gets an inch too close to a car or knocks back someone. For instance, reworking INF-Pres costs so it's actually attractive to people to do, more purchaseable (and ready to use) temp powers, making something similar to the "enhancement station," or the hero merit purchase.
|
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
Almost thinking we should get a sticky with these inf sink ideas (so the devs can more easily ignore it, I suppose. No, not getting cynical, not at all...)
The sort of INF sinks I'd think would work:
- As mentioned. Fixing the INF-Prestige conversion to make it more attractive.
- Tie a badge or three to it.
- Seasonal temp powers. They come back yearly, but are only available for a month (or some such.) You can buy them, they're not overpowering, but are appropriate to a season, holiday or other theme. (Ideas for these... no, not right now.) Like a jetpack, 10-100k range price, limited use, untradeable (?)
- Rental halls. Have an SG event, costume contest, RP setting of some sort? "Rent" a building, use either a pre-made design or spend time in an editor of some sort making it "just so." (No limit on the number of times it can be rented. Renewal lets you keep the decoration, though you can save it if you want as well.)
- Announcements. Know those newsies? Have them start calling out, mixed in with the usual announcements, that your SG is recruiting, a congrats to someone on hitting 50 or the like. (This may need to be limited to pre-made messages or otherwise checked before it's allowed to go through.)
/signed to Collateral damage
/unsigned to it costing Inf
I'm all for the Environment being effected by super battles. I love instanced maps where's there's lots of foes that leave debris all over the place (various robots, arachnos spiders, etc...). Now that looks like you've been in a fight. If trees, cars, bus stops, etc., were smashed up and laying around as well, bring on the mayhem. Heck, in instance missions, leave the bodies of defeated foes laying there until the mish is over. Bodies lying at all angles after a fight, and you gotta walk thru/around them - talk about changing the 'feel' of most fights (and possibly the game's rating, haha)
While we're talking about things that are Never-Gonna-Happen, I wish that most powerful attacks caused knockback, and that knockback itself resulted in extra personal and collateral damage, that AoEs would cause 'friendly fire' damage to teammates ('and only teammates, to avoid griefing'). And enemy mobs to abide by the same rules...
Dynamic combat over herding & lumping any day for me, thank you.
But like I said, never gonna happen, and likely unwanted by many, maybe most, players...
Quote:
While the inf loss would make this lack popularity, there's also some technical issues as well.|
Originally Posted by McBoo
Let me preface this suggestion with the admission that I realize there may be a lot of work involved in making something like this work. That being said I still believe that it would be both a popular game feature and an effective influence sink.
The idea is to allow the environment destruction of the mayhem missions to exist in city zones. Fighting could possibly cause damage to the environment (splash damage from AoEs, players and mobs colliding with objects when knocked back, direct environmental damage from powers like Foot Stomp, Burn, Fault, etc.) and characters will be responsible for any collateral damage that they caused and pay for it with influence, infamy and information. Expand the damageable item to things like windows, fences, trees, etc. and maybe even the wandering NPCs. The numbers will have to be tweaked to find a happy medium between the INF earned for defeating the mobs and the cost of the collateral damage. Id personally like to see it be at a level where players need to be smart about their offense in order to avoid an INF deficit. ^ |
Mayhem mission destruction works well because its a limited-size instance that's not persistent. When you apply that tech to something as large as a zone, the tracking of all these new resources significantly impact the zone's mapserver. Unlike a single fire hydrant that's hardcoded into the map, these destructables need their state constantly tracked and timestamped.
You need the timestamp because you're got to have some mechanism in place for a "reset" to set things back and clear the debris. Should things just "pop" back into existence at about the rate a defeated foe disappears? Should they stick around for hours so every zone appears to be a warzone? Each method has its own benefits and drawbacks in how it affects user immersion, and you've got to weigh all that against the benefit it brings to the game when deciding to spend the money on a project.
Let me preface this suggestion with the admission that I realize there may be a lot of work involved in making something like this work. That being said I still believe that it would be both a popular game feature and an effective influence sink.
The idea is to allow the environment destruction of the mayhem missions to exist in city zones. Fighting could possibly cause damage to the environment (splash damage from AoEs, players and mobs colliding with objects when knocked back, direct environmental damage from powers like Foot Stomp, Burn, Fault, etc.) and characters will be responsible for any collateral damage that they caused and pay for it with influence, infamy and information. Expand the damageable item to things like windows, fences, trees, etc. and maybe even the wandering NPCs.
The numbers will have to be tweaked to find a happy medium between the INF earned for defeating the mobs and the cost of the collateral damage. I’d personally like to see it be at a level where players need to be smart about their offense in order to avoid an INF deficit.
^
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat