Healing as a Defender

seems a strange thing to say in light of this: I guess you're saying that being a pure-healing empath (one that ignores not only buffs, but also the entire secondary) is better for the team than being a non-healing empath (one that does everything but the heals). Otherwise, the pure-healing empath would be kicked for not being built such that they can make a good addition to an average team, right?

I think you're completely insane if you think that heals alone are a good addition to an average team but everything else an emp/* can do is not.

Edit: Also, this is a joke, right? Because fortitude, auras, and defender blasts (with defender debuffs) aren't welcome additions if they don't come with heals, right?

I'll vastly agree to this with one small side note. Leechers will be talked to and eventually kicked if they don't get in line. I VASTLY don't look at people's builds, but one attack power Emps are rather likely going to hear from me if I find out that's the way they went. I won't kick them for their build, but they will get info. I just can't see how somebody in the days of inherit Fitness take only one attack.

Responses in bold.

Like I said, I will gladly show you my characters and how I play. I have led and/or been on many great teams. If I come across as being "intolerant" and "ignorant" for having certain (reasonable) expectations, then I'll just have to deal with being not liked by some people.

�If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.�

Small distinction: Your attitude is intolerant and ignorant. I did not say you were.

Your expectations are unreasonable. We're playing a game and it's one that's not hard at all. If your characters are built half as well as you claim, then you can carry a team on your own.

I've taken "pure healers" on my team. I've taken Kins without fulcrum shift, let alone ones without SB. I've taken petless masterminds on my team. I've done ITFs with a team full of kheldians. I've even taken a level 36 regen scrapper with not a single set bonus on a MoITF that I set for +4 by accident. I've never had to turn back and say "sorry guys, we just can't do it with this team."

Again, we're playing a game. The main goal is to have fun. Some people don't have time to plan a build or care enough to make the decisions you feel are optimal. Maybe they don't like SBing the people on the team. Maybe they don't have fun being a healer. If they're having fun, who the bloody hell are you to tell them they're doing it wrong?

Closest to the Empathy Defender would be the Corruptor Root, taking /pain.

A bit clearer It was written late night/early morning half asleep.



As to the comment on the last page.. Pain healing more then Empathy.

hasn't been my experience with playing Pain and being grouped with a Pain Corruptor.
Pain brings a 18+% Permable Resistance boost across the board thats pretty impressive resistance boost for everyone (plus its damage and to hit boost). A 400%+ Reg Boost Toggle for those around you as well. The new Incarnate at its weakest (rebirth) is 200% reg. Granted with the toggle you do need to stay within 15ft of the /Pain toon. But its double the effectiveness when slotted.

Fortitude vs Pain Bringer

Kinda a hard call. Granted Fortitude is easyer to perma and can be kept on multi-targets were as Pain Bringer is really only going to be used on 1 person. (unless you some how manged to get its recharge down to 45s O_o )

Certainly not saying ether is better then the other (emp vs pain) just that Pain plays differently then Empathy while still doing a lot of what Empathy can do. Which is why I brought it up as a possible option.


As to the Team kicking conversation...

I would NEVER kick anyone jsut because of some precived view that they may have Poorly biuld thier toon, and/or didn't take "key" powers.

Thats what I like about CoX so much, you dont need KEY powers, or the prefect biuld to play this game. Have fun, mix and match things up a bit. I'd gladly take the Petless mastermind that was fun to play with and had a intersting character concept then yet another Forum Clone "Prefect: Robot/Traps" FOTM biuld.

Now kicking people for being A-Holes etc... is a different matter.

And I seriously almost kicked a Kin for constantly SBing me all the time even after me repeatly saying I DONT WANT SB, STOP SBing ME etc etc.

PS - I hate Speed Boost

I'm still confused about how someone who says all that can also say
Maybe I'm just reading too much into "accept"? Maybe you just mean "we must believe that there are people who enjoy this role, since there are, but I discourage them from playing in this style by kicking them from my teams; to each his own, but on my teams, there's only mine"? I don't know.

What is root?

I figured he meant route.

Oh *** ***** I did it twice LOL

Yes, thank you I ment Route. Thats what I get for typing without double checking what I wrote.

You're comparing the wrong powers. Pain Bringer should be compared with Adrenalin Boost and World of Pain(+resistance power) should be compared with Fortitude. Soothing Aura should be compared with Regeneration Aura.

WoP can give +18% resistance to everyone in your team(in theory, I'd imagine getting everyone in range for it when it's up could be a challenge) and Fortitude can give +24% defense to 3-6 allies at once and can be power boosted to give much more.

Because of the way defense and resistance works, defense gives twice as much mitigation as resistance does. This puts Fortitude way ahead of WoP in terms of mitigation.

Less mitigation=more time spent healing, simple as that.

Good points about what to compare.

To be fair to Pain, we probley should compare to Controller Empathy vs Pain.
As Defender's Empathy is on a differnt scale all together. Defender Empathy vs Corruptor/MM Pain is kinda a no brainer due to the scale difference.

Fortitude Base of 11.25% vs 15% etc So more like 17-18% Def instead of 24% Def.

Your point however still stands... 18% Def generaly does much more for a Toon then 18% res.

Recharge on Fortitude is pretty crazy, I didn't realize it was that low and lasted 120s. Pain does have one big advantage here, its 1 click for World of Pain vs multi buffing for fortitude. Also because of World of Pains 35 ft radius and massive target taging capacity in a big group of 8 toons with pets World of Pain starts to look better then fortitude when you factor in just how many targets are being buffed by it. Granted you do need to tag everyone vs the single target tagging.

So depending on your group make up (and how large) each buff has its pros and cons.

* Damage/Tohit side, WoP is lower in both per target, but once you start multiplying how many are effected by WoP its over all To Hit boost/Damage Boost its giving across the board because pretty huge (10% base Tohit and 16% damage x tons of targets vs 6 targets with 15% and 25%).

AB vs PB

Thats a toss up at first glance.... Both have the same Recovery and Reg boost. Same Duration, same recharge, the only thing that is different.... +50 Damage boost vs 100% recharge.

I going to say AB wins this one. +100 Recharge is pretty massive for what it can do to a toon. +50% Damage boost is definitely nice, but I'm willing to beat in the long run that extra recharge will surpass the damage boost that PB gives.

But its close
*unless your buffing a pet with it.. then Pain Bringer wins

Regenerating Aura vs Suppress Pain/Sootheing Aura.

Thats a really tricky one.

500% reg base of RA vs 200% Base of Suppress.
Clicky with 500 sec recharge and 90s duration vs a toggle.

Sootheing Aura does a Heal Tick and its a toggle.

This one would take math to figure out , and I dont care enough about it to figure it out LOL. Think its going to come down more to style of play then anything else.

Over all I think they did a good job balanceing Pain as the villian version of Empathy.

So I still hold to my suggestion of Pain as a alternative to Empathy.

I don't get on my empath to heal people. I hate healing people. I get on it to buff people. If people played well together with them buffs then I wouldn't need to heal people but people tend to be disorganized and so I have to from time to time.

My Forcefielder is NRG, she blasts but I have to concentrate on positioning a bit so kb goes to walls or preferably corners. Keeping an eye on heathbars is something I don't have to do as a FFer so the positioning is easier, but still there are single targets that resist KB so if you concentrated on a single target between team checks and used aoes to bunch mobs or repel from self it should be fine.

I hear what you are saying. "Twilight Grasp heals in addition to the target debuffs? Howling Twilight rezzes? I thot it was for auto-hit stun, regen debuff, and slows!"

Oh, i welcome the heal in TG as an occasionally handy bonus, but i slot it with debuff sets.
Howling Twilight rarely rezzes when i use it because teammates rarely have the good sense to die just before i finish debuffing that spawn into nearly helpless sacks of XP.

Heh, If I wanted to heal I would summon a Dark Servant

One of the Dark defs in the hardcore SG took HT. I think we call it the "We win button." I think I took it as well on mine, but I would have to check. I haven't played him in 2-3 weeks. If I don't currently have it, I'm sure I will at some point if I continue to live that long.